Our 2006 MK11 had a headmate head in it and worked well up until this spring. I had a rebuild kit that I purchased 2 years ago so I rebuilt it in April thinking I would get another 2-3 years out of it. In june we spent 3 weeks on the boat in the Gulf Islands and the pump was getting weaker by the day, when we got back I started researching heads and found out the headmate was discontinued. Peggy on sailboatowners.com recommended a Raritan PHC pump and using our Headmate bowl and seat. We ordered the PHC pump 3 weeks ago and installed the new pump last week. The new pump fit great and covered all but one of the original mounting holes of the headmate. All hoses fit without any changes. It was almost a direct replacement for the headmate.
I wish I would of made this change at the first sign of the Headmate failing as the Admiral loves the ease of pumping the Raritan PHC. We are also using much less water flushing the head so our tank goes longer between pumpouts. This has been the best $250.00 we have spent on the boat, I highly recommend this change at the first sign of head problems.
Tom
Thanks for the info on this. I am interested in doing the same, but it seems to be hard to find exact information online from Raritan. Can you let us know exactly what you ordered?
Thanks
Tony
Tony, I'm sure that Tom will reply, but you can also consider a complete replacement. http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=111751 (http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=111751)
This is the total replacement, and source. Tom kept the old bowl. I have the same challenge ahead of me, and may simply opt to swap it all.
See also: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=109474
A recent Mainsheet article had this written up with pictures and I believe if you do a search on PHC or PHII you'll find it on this MB, too.
OK, OK == I found it for you: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3797.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3797.0.html)
If you have any more questions, ask Peggie directly at the link. She's very helpful.
This may seem an odd question; but, how different is the Raritan then the Jabsco on the Mk I boats? Is it better or would you do a Jabsco replacement?
OK, Lance, one more time. The Jabsco is a piece of crap. Period. It is the world's worst toilet, which is why it is so ubiquitous. Cheap.
The WC Head Mate was middle of the road, superior to both the Jabsco and Groco, but far short of the Raritan PH models. See Reply #6, here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4829.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4829.0.html)
One of the links I provided in my last post was to Peggie's discussion of one of the reasons WHY the Raritan is better.
That said, some people continue to replace their Jabscos with new Jabscos. Why??? Because they don't have to remount anything, no new lag bolts (some mistakenly think the bolts have nuts below!!!) and ease of connecting to the existing hoses.
Given that the PHC mates perfectly with the hoses I have, going to a PHC or PHII is a no brainer for me now that the HM is no longer being made.
I would NEVER recommend a Jabsco to anyone, even my worst enemy...
Sorry for upsetting you Stu. This was the first time I asked this question so I don't understand why I got the "One more time line?" I thought I had a legitimate question. Sorry.
No, no, no, I apologize to YOU. The "one more time" came from an assumption, albeit now apparently questionable, that questions about heads usually starts with a quick search on head or Jabsco. These "ubiquitous" questions, not necessarily related to a C34, but for all boats, is a regular "feature" of this board. I guess it's been a longer time than I remembered that since you joined us, Lance, no "basic head 101" questions have arisen.
You've been such a great contributor that it seems like you've always been here with us!
Sorry again, but glad I could find the links for you to the earlier discussion, and more importantly, the picture of the PH model installed. Hey, it really does fit! :clap
If anyone ever has a head question, I've recommended that you go to THE Source of information, Peggie Hall, at www.catalinaowners.com, Forums, Expert Forum, Head Mistress.
No worries. I'm just looking for potential projects as we have the original head from 1988. So, I'll follow up with a replacement PH11 in the next couple of months.
Lance,
We installed the PHII in our '88. The foot print on the shelf will be slightly different than your factory installed head. There's a write-up in the Mainsheet, but the two important points are that you'll likely have to re-drill the discharge hole through the vertical bulkhead to be able to route the hose properly, and you'll want to be careful drilling the lag bolts for the base mounting, since the liner is very close to the hull and you could accidentally drill into the hull (or worse!). One other thing to consider is replacing all of the hose with a high-quality odor free type and adding an anti-siphon loop to the head intake line to prevent flooding on starboard tack if someone leaves the valves open!
Cheers,
Mike
Quote from: Mike Vaccaro on September 13, 2009, 04:50:48 AM
One other thing to consider is .... adding an anti-siphon loop to the head intake line to prevent flooding on starboard tack if someone leaves the valves open!
For new folks, please note this is NOT on the hose between the thru hull and the head. It IS on the hose between the pump on the head and the head bowl. Please carefully read the instructions that come with your head, 'cuz it's covered quite well there. If you put one on the wrong hose, the head will not work.
Tony,
The link below will take you to the site where you can order the pump. We ordered the PHC LBA as our toilet was the headmate compact. Our bowl and seat fit fine on the new pump. I have 2 friends that have both replaced their Jabsco's after seeing how well the Raritan works. Their wives are now much happier.
http://shop.catalinaowners.com/detail.htm?group=1357&cat=1002
Thanks Tom
That is exactly what I was looking for.
Tony
added to head section of the wiki
I have a question for the masters on heads. My boat, a 2004, has the Headmate 1460. I was doing a rebuild and the nut for the pump shaft must have been cracked as it broke when I hand tightened it.
My options now, as the Headmate is no longer made, are many. The cheapest (part of the problem with them) is a compact Jabsco Twist and Lock. The alternative that I like is the Raritan discussed in this thread. Tom put one in a 2006 and I assume it replaces the same head that I have in my 2004. In looking at the schematic for the bolt on of the Jabsco bowl to the Raritan body it does not seem to match my bowl. Tom, or anyone, do you know if the 1460 bowl will fit on the Rariatan PHC?????
Thanks
Reading the forum thread citing Peggy Halls recommendation, I changed out our Groco HF (which needed another rebuild kit) to the Raritan PHC two weeks ago and wholeheartedly agree with Tom - this is one of the best upgrades for the boat. :D I had to drill out another hole for the discharge line and two additional holes for the new base but it is well worth the minor effort. It works so well. Thanks to everyone who shared this thought on the list.
Paul, although yours was a differnt original, I would be interested whether you were able to re-use your old bowl or bought the whole head including bowl. Hopefully I will hear from CatlinaDirect and get the answer soon from them as well.
Tom
Tom - The deal at Defender at the time (it was their annual warehouse in late March) made the cost differential between the entire unit or everything minus the bowl within a few dollars. So, I purchased the entire head. I don't think the old existing toilet base would have accepted the Raritan pump - I recall one used 2 screws vs. 4 for the other to connect the pump assembly unit so I would have had to replace the base also. It would have been so much easier if they did match up. But, all in all - well worth the effort. :D
Thanks for the info Paul. Hopefully I will hear from Catalina Direct by tomorrow as I did not today. Got to pull the trigger on something very soon.
Tom
Tom,
The headmate bowl will bolt directly to the Raritan PHC LBA. Make sure you order the PHC LBA (link in previous post) as it is a direct replacement for compact bowls, and the Headmate. You will have to drill a couple additional holes for mounting the pump to the floor as the Headmates mounting holes do not line up with Raritan.
After 1 year and alot of use this is the best upgrade we have made to the boat. The Admiral is very happy with it.
IMO, don't waste your money on a Jabsco, 2 friends replaced theirs after only 1 year to the Raritan.
Thanks Tom,
Based on that I will order it today as I have yet to hear from CatalinaDirect customer service.
Thanks,
Tom
This must be the year of the "raritan refits!" I also swapped out the original groco head for a Raritan compact ... the refit went well. I put a short hose with 90 degree elbow for the intake water line, as the bend seemed too severe without it. I did NOT however insert a vented loop in the pump-to-bowl line. Is this a MUST DO, or a SHOULD DO for safety?
Have been monitoring the discussion on heads and thought another opinion might help. We have a Jabsco cheapie installed and working well, for the last 5 years, with absolutely no problems...once we figured out how to store the unit when off the boat for some time. We remove the o-ring from the pump and spray it with silicon. It takes maybe 2 minutes to get off and stored, and another 2 minutes to re-install. Yes, the Jabsco head is certainly not the best quality and no doubt when we move aboard for a year of so during retirement, we will change it out, but for the past 5 years, it has always worked well. However, if there is one Jabsco component that we have had great difficulties with, it is the macenator pump....the assembly bolts corrode out and the pump literally tears itself apart when switched on. Makes for a messy bilge clean up, to say the least.
Three Tom's changing out heads to Raritan - I feel oddly named! :D Regarding the vented loop - a MUST DO - not for pump function but for flooding possibilities. Search using "Vented Loop Head" for many discussions in the past. Our C34 has the loop setup in the adjacent locker and the lines angle toward centerline with the loop placed very high.
Well, this Tom did order the Raritan and it is a great improvement. Although the schematic online did not match the Jabsco bowl, the old bowl fit the new head! Very easy switch out, only had to extend the intake line to the head and put in an elbow to keep it from pinching.
I used the same kit this year. While the bowl fit the kit, I did have to drill new holes to mount the base, which is longer than the original WC Headmate pump unit.
This also meant that the waste hose had to stretch a little to fit on the new discharge elbow at the back of the pump. First attempt at this was a near disaster: I slid the elbow on the hose first, and then bolted it on the back of the PHC unit. It was a bit of a struggle, but the bolts are sturdy. On testing with (fortunately) clean water, the joint around the elbow/joker valve leaked like a sieve.
It took a call to Raritan and complete disassembly/reinstall to figure out that it is easy to distort a plastic fitting when under too much strain. I was able to loosen off the waste pipe by an inch to relieve the strain, and reinstall the elbow. This time no leaks. (Crossing fingers for the first real test yet to come.)
Tony
Tony,
Yes, I also have a couple of holes to fill as this is a different base. Not much of a problem...just need to get to it.
I also had one glitch caused by my trying to do it quick instead of smart. Got everything put together as I wanted it. Bolts tightened, hoses run and some double clamped, bowl on and ready to test. All that was left was to put the handle on. Put the handle on, and when I started to put the little cotter pin in the top to hold the handle.....yep, dropped it down the OPEN bowl.
Tried to fish it out, and did not want it going thru the hoses (maybe) to the tank....so took the entire thing apart, tipped it on its edge and out came the pin.
I usually pre shop for everything I think I will need for a project and then plan on running to the hardware at least three times for additional items on most home projects. This was only a two run project!!! :D
Another satisfied customer with the PHC pump upgrade.
Cross reference: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3797.0.html