Catalina 34

Hello,

Thanks Stu, we found our way to this great website.  So as noted earlier on another site, we have just purchased a brand new Catalina 34 MKII 2007,  The commissioning on our boat is not finished so we have not had an in water delivery yet.  We noticed over the weekend about 50 stress cracks from the cockpit to the toe rails, stanchions, under and around the mast, hatches and finally inside the boat in the corner of the long windows.  We were told by our dealer that this was normal and they did put in a work order to the marina so it may get fixed and have notified Catalina Yachts.  As this is our first new boat we are trying to find out if this has happened to many people and if so what was the outcome.  As long as this is on warranty it will be fixed but we can't but wonder what the outline cause of these cracks are as the boat has never sailed.  Are we dealing with more then just cosmetic and how serious will Catalina respond to the claim.  Every info we have looked up so far tells us either two things.  One is that there are probably voids or worse, problems with the fiberglass.

We are still very proud owners of this boat and apart from this, everything else so far is great on the boat.

Zoulu 
Hull # 1776

FYI, the original post is here:  http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/pviewall.tpl?fno=23&uid=73200280089&sku=2007156084152.69&rid=2007156120815.35#2007156120815.35

That thread includes a link to a previous discussion of hairline cracks from last year on this board.

Thanks for joining us over here.

Congratulation on your new 34....... and welcome aboard.  I have never bought a new boat so don't have much to say about your hairline cracks. 

I just wanted to comment on your hull #...... if you wait for a purchase date of the 4th of July it would be quite appropriate with your hull number, 1776.  Any chance her name is Independence?

Happy Sailing

Steve

We might choose to notice that our new friend is from Montreal. :D

Thanks for pointing that out.  I should have caught that. Sorry.

Steve

Hi Steve and Stu,

As being from Montreal but sailing on Lake Champlain in the US we did think about that name but we decided on Moondance II with a snoopy doing the happy dance in the moon.  It goes well with the Independance day.  It's a day to celebrate.

Zoulu

I would advise having an independent survey done on the boat, by someone capable of determining whether the damage is indeed just cosmetic or an indicator of a more serious problem. They can better advise on what is normal than the dealer. If the underlying problem is more serious, this is the time to find out.

At the same time the surveyor can uncover other problems that would best be fixed now. Many do not take this step with a new boat, but it can be a major cost saver. It gives you a better negotiating position with the dealer.

(It is easy to fall in love with the idea of getting on the water, and sorting out the problems later. The dealer will often want to push this approach.)

The cost of properly an invisibly repairing gelcoat problems is very high. This is due to the time it takes to repair each blemish, and the fact that the expertise is hard to find, and colour matching is hard to do. Many dealers seem to delay getting the work done, due to the problem of finding an expert with the available time. 

Best of luck

Tony

Thank you Tony,

Our dealer has scheduled the repairs to be done and have photographed and documented each crack and has sent it by e-mail to Catalina.  I wonder if we should ask a qualified representative from Catalina to inspect further.  It was suggested to us that we should use our boat in this condition and come back to the dealer when the marina has time to fix our problem and see if the problem has evolved any further.  Our worry is that the hairline crack under and surrounding our mast can easily fit a finger nail in it.  What about water infiltrations and not knowing if more cracks will occur as we still don't know what is causing them.

Zoulu :thumb:

If you come into Malletts Bay come by the boat club.  If given advance notice I may be able to get you a guest mooring for a night.

Hi
Dave,

Thank you for the invite, we will give you advance notice.  We still have no idea when we will be capable of putting our boat in the water but we will be more then glad to keep you informed.


Thanks
Michel and Annick
Moondance II

Could not help myself from reading this thread.  My boat is 21 years old with some of those years being pretty hard and I don't have any stress cracks big enough to fit a finger nail in (not normal!).  Water is definitely seeping into the deck core from  cracks that big.   From, what I know (which may be limited to old used boats) I would definitely get an independent marine surveyor (not someone from Catalina or the dealer) to check this out.  Also, for your own peace of mind, check the hull liner where furniture, cabinets and bulkheads meet the hull and look for similar cracks on the inside where the liner bonds to the hull.  Pull all cushions and check the insides of cabinets and compartments thouroughly even where the stringers run across the bilge beneath the floor and are attached to the hull.  If you see similar cracks or areas where there is separation the condition will only get worse after you sail.  You know there have been boats that Catalina has taken back.
Just my thoughts but if you're skeptical now with your new boat, it's worth spending the $$ for a professional surveyor (independent), could definitely assist your position with Catalina especially now before you take possession of the boat. New boats are too much money not to get them right.
George

George,

We completely agree with you.  We had not thought of checking the inside as you've mentionned.  We will take care of this over the weekend and hope for the best.

Thanks

Michel and Annick

Not sure if you meant that you would get a surveyor over the weekend. But if not, you really should do this.

I expected that the dealer would tell you to "sail it and see if it gets worse". A lawyer would tell you this is the first step to accepting the boat in its current condition, and will not help you get this fixed quickly.

Let me suggest that you call George Ward and tell him of your problem. (877) 363-0827. George is an independent broker, who helped me sell and buy recently. In the process I got to know George as an incredible source of knowledge. he knows everyone on the marine industry in Canada, especially around Montreal, where he owned and operated several operations, including the largest spar extrusion operation in Canada some years ago. (He now lives in Toronto, but still maintains extensive contacts in Montreal)

Ask him for his opinion as to what you should do. You won't go far wrong following his advice. He will be able to suggest a good local surveyor if he agrees that this is the thing to do.

Tony

Hi Tony,

We have just contacted George and asked his help in order to find a independant surveyor.  He took our coordinates and information regarding our problem.  He will call us back.

Thanks

Can you tell us where you got the boat from...ie: the dealer and city
Thanks

Hello,

I have e-mailed you personnally.

Thanks

We bought our 2004 C34 (1678) in April, 2004 in Vancouver. In my opinion, do not accept this boat as is. Do not pay for it. Hopefully you have just a deposit on it. The dealer or salesman will lie and be less than truthful. They want their cash and they will go to any length to complete the deal.  Assuming you have paid only a deposit, the problem right now is the dealers' and Catalina. DO NOT MAKE THIS YOUR PROBLEM. 
These are not normal issues. Place colored tape on all stress cracks. Do not be forced to accept any verbal assurances or promises. If you are accepting this vessel, be very demanding that all irregularities are resolved to your satisfaction prior to balance of payment. How can this crap come out of the factory? I bet a Lexus would have been 25% of your boat? Do you think the Lexus dealer would deliver a car in this condition?
When was this boat ordered? Maybe request another one..with the Canadian dollar at an all time high, a newer boat might be a few bucks cheaper. The euphoria of new boat ownership quickly rubs off when you have major service issues. The dealer will only absorb so much of them and you!
Good luck mon ami!

Hello Canuck,

We payed in full for the boat beginning of May 07.  At that time there were no cracks, they only appeared all of a sudden last weekend.  Our only leverage now is to not accept an in water delivery as I don't think anyone would when it comes to such an important investment.  Our dealer has sent pictures with a copy of our letter to Catalina.  I personnaly spoke to Mr. Nelson yesterday at CY and he did assure us that Frank Butler was going to call us on Monday as he's been made aware of the situation.  I guess we are lucky because the owners of the Dealership are capable of understanding and are doing everything in their power to help us.  There should be more dealers like them. 

We are leaving this morning for the boat so we may make a more thorough investigation inside and outside and take our own pictures.  I'm sure that our Dealer and Catalina want to see us enjoy our boat.  No one gains with unhappy clients.

A bientôt.
Bon vent

Michel and Annick  :thumb:

Hi Michel and Annick,
I hope your crack saga is working out to your satisfaction. This gel coat cracking problem is quite common with Catalinas in my limited experience. I had some at the mast step on my 320 purchased new in 1994. The 1999 C34 I now own (bought used in 2003) has cracks at the scoop on the transom by the lower step and amidships on the deck/hull connection (both sides) above the rub rail. Two surveyors have told me that the cracks result from the application of too much gel coat in a particular area so that the gelcoat in that area will not flex as readily as the underlying laminate. Thus it cracks. Apparently it is not a structural problem and, since (in my case) the underlying laminate is sound, will not lead to water getting into the laminate or the interior. I have thought about getting the cracks fixed but the bill would be large (finicky work), the colour might not be perfect and the cracks could reoccur if the gelcoat was not sanded down to the appropriate thickness.

On the strength of my own experience, I would hesitate before buying another new Catalina. It is one thing to find some cracks in a used boat and have them factored into the price. It is quite another thing to hand over your money for a new boat and then discover that it has significant cosmetic blemishes. I found that pretty hard to swallow.

Hi John,

We had a meeting on Saturday with our dealer and they explained why we have cracks.  They also gave us a guarantie that the Marina would fix all cracks and also tap the entire boat in order to see if there are any voids.  If so, then they will have them all fixed.  As for Frank Butler, well we were told he would call us today but he never did.  Maybe it will be for another day.

Annick and Michel  :clap

Hello,


Here's an update to our hairline cracks.  The marina has started to fix them and the one under the mast was cracked right to the first layer of the glass but thank god there was no water damage.  The stanchions are also being fixed.  What we have seen is that there are no water infiltrations and the cracks come from the gelcoat being to thick.  The marina is sanding them all down and matching patters.  So far nothing shows.

Thanks to all

Annick and Michel  :clap

This continues at: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3984.0