Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: jpaulroberts on February 18, 2006, 08:16:49 AM

Title: Bow Roller
Post by: jpaulroberts on February 18, 2006, 08:16:49 AM
Since I know that I can use  a Delta with a CR-1 bow roller, and you say that that works well with you 33lb Bruce, I think I wil go ahead and install one. I also looked at your photo (I just found one) and I see how you cut away the inside of the roller mount so you can still use your center cleat. On my deck looks like the foot pads for the center cleat will be in the way of the roller base, but if it worked on you boat it should work on mine.  If you were doing this from scratch would you still select the CR-1 or would you use another roller mount? Will this let the swivel pass through the roller ok? Dose the anchor stock feed itself in and out of the mount hoop on it's own as you raise and lower the anchor?

I went to West Marine this weeekend and looked at the Bruce 33 and the Delta 35 side by side. The Delta is gigantic! The I re-read the speck on boat. Delta claims the 22 is good for up to a 41 foot boat while Bruce recomends the 33 for our boats.
In any case, I think I'll go ahead and put the CR-1 on deack, add a lot more chain and also the twin cleats and see how that goes. I'm also reading a lot of good things about the SPADE.

Anyone else have any additional thoughts?

Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Ron Hill on February 18, 2006, 12:25:39 PM
Jerry : I'm completely satisfied with the CR 1. 
The only thing that I'd do different today is that I'd use a piece of "Lexan" to bring the rear of the bow roller up even with the fixed bow fixture in front.  Otherwise everything else would be the same.   

The swivel and clevis that attach the rode to chain and chain to the anchor, all pass thu with no problem.

I tryed a Delta 22.  Had to get up in the middle of the night twice (thunderstorms) and throw out a danforth.  After that trip I took that Delta 22 back to Boat US and traded it in on the Bruce 33.  One of the best moves I've ever made.  If the D22 will hold a 40ft boat, I've got a bridge I'll sell you!! 

You may not have seen my thread on hooking onto a 33ft piece of 3" galvanized pipe with the Bruce.  In the process of trying to find out "what's happening", I gunned the engine and the bow went down 4/5ft!!  After I finally got that monster up and off I thought that surly I'd screwed up that bow roller.  Inspection showed the roller was fine and all of the nuts/bolts were still tight and couldn't be tightened any more!!

I wouldn't go with less than 30ft of chain and a 15lb sentinel (for the added weight and to keep from wrapping the rode around the wing keel) .

On your mooring bridal you might consider incorporating a couple of the black "shock snubbers" .  I've also seen stainless springs that will take up the shock from heavy wave action.  Think you said your mooring was exposed.

 A few thoughts.    :wink:
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: jpaulroberts on February 18, 2006, 01:51:31 PM
Thanks Ron.
The way I'm thinking right now is that I'll put the CR-1 and the two new bow cleats on. I will probably go with the Bruce 33 as my primary. My only hesitancy comes from reports it will not penetrate grass or hard bottome like the SPADE and Delta will, and that it is not so good in mud. But I agree that there are tests and reports that can be used to prove or disprove any theory. I know I do not want a Delta 35 hanging on my bow, that's for sure.

Once again, drawing a straight line back from the inner starboard side roller flange (against which I will mount the CR-1) is seems I'm going to run into the feet of the center cleat. Did you have to angle the CR-1 to starboard a bit at it's aft end to avoid the feet, or did it fit just fine?

Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Stu Jackson on February 18, 2006, 05:48:46 PM

In an attempt to disprove the theorists, our Bruce does a fantastic job in mud, slime and goo-pie stuff.  ALWAYS resets on shifts of wind or tide, never have had a problem.

Thought you'd like to, and need to, know that.

Those of you familiar with this board know that we have a "teeny" 16.5# Bruce, but only anchor in protected spots (of course we have heavier anchors for "when needed" but we don't have the nighttime thunderstorms most of you do - I don't want to or need to get into an anchoring debate here, it's what we call "A San Francisco Treat" to have sheltered anchorages that let my back survive retrieval on a regular basis!).  30 feet of 5/16 chain on 1/2" line, we also use a sentinel when it's required.  Our larger Danforth has 30 feet of 3/8" chain on 1/2" line, plus our lighter Danforth lunch hook and aft anchor.  There are many "anchor" discussions here in addition to the one I noted.

End result, Jerry: I think you're doing just fine.   :clap
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Ron Hill on February 18, 2006, 06:16:07 PM
Jerry : On the Chesapeake we mainly have mud and some grasses.  I anchored in Florida with no problems.  Met a guy that took a grinder and "sharpened" the edges of his Bruce to "cut" thru grass - don't think I'd go that far.

I thought my bow roller was in projects and surprised to find that it wasn't!!  The best I can do is a collage of 4 B & Ws that show it.  As I recall I used a stack of washers to the lateral nut/bolt to get the correct alignment of the roller. 
It's not real sharp in my mind because after all it was 12/13 years ago that I did that mod!!!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: jpaulroberts on February 18, 2006, 07:09:46 PM
Thanks guys.
Ron I tried blowing up your photos but they are too low rez. But I get the picture from your description.
Stu, that's an amazingly light anchor your using, but I've learned a lot about chain length from both of you.
Like I said, I sailed for 15 years in my Triton with a danforth and only 8 feet of chain. I am fenatic about setting the hook though. I am on deck with the rode in my hand. I can feel the bottem, I can count the stones in the mud and I know when I am really in. Then I let out a lot more scope and reverse untill I know I am not going anywhere. I have been in some very exposed situations and I have never had a serius drag. I like to anchor "out" far from others and I am willing to anchor along the coast well outside of coves and harbors on a regular basis. Of course I always plan to get shelter from the wind and sea, but that can change.
After two seasons with the C-34 and a Delta 22 I've had good luck, but with a wife and baby on board I want to heft up my ground tackle. The first suprise I experianced was on three ocations where the currents spun me around in multiple 360s(between small rocky islands of the coast of CT) and my rode cought on my keel. That never happened on my full keel Triton. That's when I knew I had some learning to do. Jerry     
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: ken003 on February 18, 2006, 07:58:18 PM
I don't mean to complicate things, but I find these anchor threads very interesting.  I just read in the January "Latitudes and Attitudes" where some guy, after years of cruising the world, has come up with 2 rules for sailors.  One of these being that you should have an anchor a minimum of 2# per foot of boat length instead of the usual 1#.  This is quite different than the small anchors a lot of people seem to be using.  Has anyone gone with the heavier anchors?

Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: jpaulroberts on February 18, 2006, 09:29:48 PM
I'll be the first to say I am not a world cruiser. I mostly sail between NYC and Cape Cod. I've been to Nova Scotia twice. I've spent a lot of time at sea in tugs and historic ships, but that's another story. If I were a world cruiser I probably would not be using a C-34, but I will say it's the perfect boat for the coastal crusing I do. I spend every summer weekend anchored out and i take at least two, five to ten day trips each spring or fall. I can not imagine mounting a 68 pound anchor on my bow. If I were sailing the north sea or the south atlantic, that would be diferent of course.

Like you I am very interested in what other people have found useful. I find this forum to be the best resource to learn and share with other folks sailing the same basic boat. All the best, Jerry 
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Ron Hill on February 19, 2006, 02:13:40 PM
Jerry : I knew the resolution was going to "pot" when I reduced it to meet the 50K req.  If you call me (540)891-5297 I'll send you a copy of that B & W photo, which is OK in resolution as it is.  You can even see how I "split" the anchor well. 

As far as a heavier anchor?  A 33/35lb plow type anchor is more than satisfactory for a 34 ft boat.  The real key to traveling is the have different type anchors (fluke/plow) onboard so when the bottom conditions change you can deploy the other anchor.  Also it imperative to have the second anchor ready to go with chain/rode (and the anchor rodes SEPARATED) ready to deploy at a moments notice in case of an emergency!!  Most of the long range cruisers deploy 2 anchors routinely.   :wink:
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Roc on February 19, 2006, 06:58:17 PM
The 35lb. Delta may look huge in the store, but it looks fine on the boat.  The 35 size would be the one to go with if you choose the Delta.
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: BillG on February 20, 2006, 07:22:13 AM
Jerry, I'm in the process of making the same improvements as you on my 87 #466.  Ordered 2 Schaefer 8 inch stainless cleats this weekend, and during the warm weather last week, managed to cut the outer starboard side off  of the existing anchor roller.  In response to an earlier inquiry, my new roller will not run into the center cleat, although it gets close. Ron has suggested that grinding off the aft inner side will make the cleat usable and that's what I plan to do.  you can find Ron's article on his installation in the May 95 tech notes. 
Ron, Can I call you and get copies of your pics as well. thanks to you both.
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Ron Hill on February 20, 2006, 03:34:10 PM
Guy's : If you call me I'll send or Email (full size) that 4 picture group of my Anchor Well/Bow Roller.

Bill : To get the backing plate and nut on the added port side cleat, you'll have to cut a Beckson plate into the port side of the anchor well liner.  Just be careful NOT to cut into the running light wires that are just inside that liner!!  I say that because I couldn't maneuver my right arm (thru the front factory installed port) to get under that port side cleat - maybe you can do it with out an extra port?!  Give me a call.   :wink:
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: jpaulroberts on February 21, 2006, 06:30:58 AM
Ron, I'll cal you, thanks.

Bill G. Did you order the cleats with the built in stud-bolts? Jerry
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: BillG on February 21, 2006, 08:11:51 AM
No, I purchased the 60-200s, they were 34 dollars and some change last week, but have gone up to 37 this week. thought about the ones with the built in studs, but couldn't justify an additional 30 bucks a piece.
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: jpaulroberts on February 21, 2006, 09:30:52 AM
Where did you order the cleats from? I looked at Defender and did not see 8" SS cleats without the built in studs. I did find 10" cleats but I'm not sure they will fit in the space.  Jerry 
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: BillG on February 21, 2006, 02:45:35 PM
ordered them from defender on Saturday, they are not listed in the catalog, but can be found on their website, look in the listings for schaefer cleats, it's model 60-200  and they arrived today. 
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Ron Hill on February 24, 2006, 05:06:32 PM
The Schaefer Stainless 8 " cleats w/studs are listed in the 2006 Defender Catalog on page 168.   :appl
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Jim Moore on February 25, 2006, 07:40:00 AM
Ron---Could you please send me the picture group of the anchor well/bow roller arrangement you have.  I was always hesitant about mounting an anchor up front because of the swing when raising.  From what I have been reading though, this is really a non issue.  Any  other valuable insights to this would be appreciated.  As always, thanks for your valuable input.  Jim Moore
email addy is
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Ron Hill on February 25, 2006, 05:08:54 PM
Jim : SENT !   :thumb:
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Stu Jackson on February 25, 2006, 05:10:54 PM
Ron's original bow roller article is in the May 1995 Tech Notes, Online for C34 IA members, another benefit of joining the Association.

Start here:

Members can access the PDF article.
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Jim Moore on February 26, 2006, 09:47:59 AM
Ron and others
I hope you don't mind me requesting more information about anchoring. I have my boat located in the Midwest in Illinois and the lake bottom is primarily all mud. All of my years here and others sailors experiences in this area have been the use of the Danforth style anchors. These anchors are time tested and proven to work well in this area. Seems no one wants to buck tradition, so to speak. Purchasing a Bruce or Delta style anchor would be kind of out of the question since I have acquired quite an array of fluke style Danforth anchors in various weights over the years. The Danforth I presently use is the 35H weighing in at 35 lbs. The question is this. The CR-1 anchor roller advertisement in the Defender catalog states it will handle a fluke style up to 28 lbs. I would like to use this style bow roller because of it's narrow design obviously. Due to the extra weight placed on the roller, do you think it will be a factor in it's application? Or, do you think there is room for the roller model number CRM-1 item number 000968 in Defender catalog? All is not lost though, since I do own a 20H anchor from Danforth also. This would satisfy the weight limit for the CR-1, but for peace of mind at night I would like to use the heavier of the two. Thanks again everyone for any help   Jim Moore
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Ron Hill on February 26, 2006, 05:56:18 PM
Jim : Answered you separately. 
If you're happy with your Danforths - don't change.  OUT! 
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Randy Stolze on March 14, 2006, 05:24:01 PM

  Bill and Jerry,

       I have elected this upgrade as my must- do for this Spring. Can you tell me what you used to cut the existing bow roller? Did you cut it while bolted down in place / headstay still connected?



   1987 #396
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Ron Hill on March 14, 2006, 06:18:22 PM
Randy : If you will read the article I wrote in the May 1995 Mainsheet it will tell you how I cut it and how I did the job. There's even a picture.
The boat part was cut off in place and the contour part was cut off in a vice at home.  No the head stay was not removed.  The info is there, but YOU must read it.   :cry`
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: Randy Stolze on March 15, 2006, 02:55:51 AM
Thanks Ron,

 You da man !!!!     
Title: Re: Bow Roller
Post by: BillG on March 16, 2006, 03:09:27 PM
like Ron, I used an electric grinder and be sure to use full face protection.