hi, my boat was peeing yesterday and is not today. i wanted to try to fix it myself but i can't figure out how to get the plastic cover off what i believe to be the river water intake with metal mesh filter. i tried, with my hand so i don't break anything, twisting it left and right and straight off. nothing. it's plastic so i don't want to use channel locks on it. what is the secret procedure so i can then see if my river water engine coolant intake is clogged and fix her peeing issue myself? and i assume the pee, coming out of the engine, which i so dutifully look for each time i start up the engine, is river (or not coolant) water, correct? i could not find a drawing in the owner's manual for how all the hoses run, for coolant and river water. is it there that i missed or can someone send it?
thanks
becki in detroit
hull 99 1986
Becki : I assume that you are talking about cooling water (pee?!?) that comes out of the transom exhaust port?? And you want to remove the raw water intake strainer under the head sink???
The strainer unscrews (counterclockwise) so FIRST turn off the thru hull and then unscrew that see thru strainer!! Once OFF, the strainer can be lifted out of the plastic see thru cup. Careful that you don't loose the square "O" ring gasket!! Then reinstall the strainer and reopen the thru hull. If the strainer rapidly refills with water the thru hull is clear. If not the thru hull is plugged. Look at the many posts of how to clear a clogged thru hull!!
If the strainer is clear and thru hull unclogged, I suggest that you take off the face plate on the raw pump and inspect the impeller and while off just install a new impeller (if it been on awhile?) Look for any missing blades (first in the elbow of the OUT flow hose)
A few thoughts
Quote from: anaisdog on October 02, 2022, 11:59:29 AM
i could not find a drawing in the owner's manual for how all the hoses run, for coolant and river water. is it there that ii missed or can someone send it?
Becki the diagram of the engine coolant flow/seawater flow is in the
ENGINE Owners Manual.
https://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=ManualsThe diagram in the original Universal manual (if you have one)
is incorrect and I had previously corrected and inserted the diagram into the manual on the wiki site above.
Definitely check the seawater pump and you can also pull the hose from the seawater pump outlet to the heat exchanger to see if the pump outlet is peeing. It's possible she has a blockage inside the heat exchanger or where the seawater is injected into the exhaust, right above the muffler. Any of those will have the same symptom of no peeing at the exhaust discharge.
Stu, Noah, Jon, David = can
SOMEONE get the "
manuals" link FIXED on the wiki main will page so that it points to
https://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Manuals
???? It points to a non-existent will page: ( https://c34.org/nonWPWik/?title=Manuals )
It's, I think, the 5th time that I have raised this snafu that needs to be "adjusted" and I can't do it because it's a protected page.
thank you, yes peeing is how i was taught. it's the exhaust, port side transom. where i keep my boat has had an issue with water movement so it's a forest of weeds and i'm sure they are all in my hoses. i'll check when i'm back on wednesday. I just couldn't get the plastic housing off
Quotei wanted to try to fix it myself but i can't figure out how to get the plastic cover off what i believe to be the river water intake with metal mesh filter. i tried, with my hand so i don't break anything, twisting it left and right and straight off. nothing. it's plastic so i don't want to use channel locks on it.
It just unscrews, normal righty tighty, lefty loosey. If there's room, try a strap wrench on the plastic housing. A strap wrench is a good addition to a toolbox, although, I would caution against using one on an oil or fuel filter, strap wrenches do tend to crush them. A second idea is to use the channel locks with a pad to protect the plastic housing.
Jim
how do i figure out which impeller i need? engine is listed, from my survey as a universal 3 cyclinder 324hp diesel marine engine freshwater cooled, model m 25 (no letter after that) but in reading the c34 wiki, it's probably an m25xp. i should have a spare on board anyway. defender.com had no idea and catalinadirect is closed right now. its the original water pump too, which brand, does anyone know, would that be? i can't get there until wednesday.
Stu, I think you have the identical set up?
thanks Ken, those drawings are great! without going to the boat, since i can't, is there a way of knowing if I have an m25 or an m25xp? my survey says m25 but in looking at the year listings, it might be an xp. catalina and catalina direct aren't answering their phones right now
Great becki that they helped you.
Unfortunately knowing whether she has an m25 or m25xp doesn't help. Different pumps (Sherwood brand and Oberdorfer brand) were both used on the m25 and m25xp engines.
I'd suspect you have an m25 based on the age (the boat, not yours!) but maybe Ron can answer that.
Do you remember whether the seawater pump has a round face w/ 3 screws heads on the backside (Sherwood G903)
https://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=File:Pic1_Sherwood_908.jpg
Or a round face with 6 screw heads on the front (Sherwood M5)
or a square face (Oberdorfer thin flat cover or heavy cast cover?
https://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=File:4_Oberdorfer_installed_m35a.jpg
http://realitycheck.me/gallery/impeller/slides/universal%20m25%20sea%20water%20pump.jpg
You'll need a cover gasket (or rubber o-ring if it's a newer Oberdorfer but I doubt that it is.)
Any chance of having pics or getting pix of the pump then getting the impeller (I realize you're down and want to get her running asap.)
Even at that, there are different models of each pump brand that Universal installed, BUT luckily the different models use the same impeller. If you can find the impellers locally, I'd buy one of each and return/exchange the one that isn't yours for another (spare) to keep aboard. Be sure to buy genuine name brand Oberdorfer or Sherwood and not a knock off.
thanks Ken, i didn't open up the engine compartment but i will when i'm there wednesday and see. thanks for the pictures of the pumps! and my mechanic is very happy that i'm trying to fix this myself. he wants to get people off his docket since he's so busy!
Becki : You probably have an M25 engine in you hull #99 C34. It could have come with one of three different Raw Water Pumps. An Oberdoffer (most likely) or a Sherwood or a Johnson. If it is the original pump and it is an Oberdoffer that name is in raised letters on the square face plate (w/4 screws).
So check the engine and the strainer. if you have a "Forest of Weeds" as you say - your thru hull is probably clogged?? and that is the problem??
Let us know what you find!!
A few thoughts
thanks Ron, yes, as i said in the original post, i was trying to get the clear housing off to see the filter but couldn't. i'll see what the thing is wednesday when i'm there.
becki
Here's what the Sw M-5 looks like
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7X4AAOSwu0Bfa6Fc/s-l300.jpg
If you have the
Older Ob pump (202M-16**) the impeller is part #6593; cover gasket #6599; mounting gasket #298485 or Kubota #15296-88130 (which is a better gasket.)
(**this is my GUESS of the pump installed)
Newer Ob pump (N202M-16) the impeller is part #6593; cover o-ring #9797-034B; mounting gasket #298485.
If you have the Sw
G-903 the impeller is part #9000K; cover gasket #12855; mounting gasket #302678.
M-5 the impeller is part #10077K; cover gasket #12855; mounting gasket #298485 or Kubota #15296-88130.
I don't know if on the C34 you can see the stbd side of your engine but on the engine block (right above the on-engine fuel filter) the engine displacement is cast into the block.
"855cc" is the M-25
"927cc" = M-25XP See attached pic of my M25.
If not send, pix of your engine and injector pump and fuel return hose to the fuel tank (it comes off either the front or the back of the engine.)
I can also tell from pix of your heat exchanger and bell housing whether she's an m25 or XP.
thanks! i'll be there tomorrow and see what is up and take pictures and post them. the amazing mechanic in the area is always pushing for people, esp women, to learn how to take care of everything on their boats so I'm up for the challenge.
Well as long as you're up to it... What I meant to add but forgot to, is that if the pump hasn't been touched since you've owned her, it would be good after pulling her for the season, to pull the pump and send it off for an inspection.
With some expertise you can rebuild most of it but the carbon bearings, not. (presuming you have the Ob 202m pump.)
i know the impeller has been changed because the old one shatterd during a lesson, about 8 years ago. i'll just write down and take pictures of everything
thanks
That's good.
When you replace it be sure to:
- Hold the shaft IN with a screwdriver or punch and pull the impeller w/a needle nose.
- Lube the shaft/brass hub of the impeller to help them from bonding together.
- Lube the inside of the pump (easier than handling a slippery impeller)
- Remove hoses and lube the hose barb elbows so it's easy to service hoses if needed.
Owners have different favorite flavors of lube but I use SuperLube gel (available most good hardwares and Horror Fright.)
The pump's oil and water ("lip") seals ate wear items and owner serviceable; the carbon bearing is lesser of a a wear item and not user serviceable. The shaft is not a wear item but can become scored either at the carbon bearing or at either/both of the lip seals (and is owner replaceable.)
So (imo) at least a good owner inspection is in order if there are substantial hours on it, just for peace of mind.
You CAN pull the entire impeller/shaft if you want to inspect the shaft for wear but it must be carefully reinserted.
Beckie : Before you start screwing around with the "maybe" replacing the impeller - unscrew that strainer (counterclockwise) and see if the weeds have clogged the thru hull intake!!
Changing the impeller is simple if it's an Oberdoffer. Take off the face plate and pull out the impeller and shaft. Use your fingernail to check if the lip seal has worn a grove in the stainless shaft. If so replace the impeller and the shaft.
But first determine if you are getting water thru the Thru Hull !! Plenty of time to screw around with the raw water pump later!!
A few thoughts
Ron, i will try tomorrow when I'm there, either using channel locks with a wash cloth or an oil filter wrench if i have it there. thanks!
beckie : Go by a hardware store and invest a few bucks (About $5) and buy a strap wrench. Using a channel lock you could crack that plastic bowl!! Ask the store how to use a strap wrench, I' sure they'd be happy to show you!
A thought
thanks, i will but that looks like an oil filter wrench which i may or may not already have on board. i'll see
mystery solved. i have an m25 engine (thank you again Ken for the very explicit posting of letters and numbers of everything) with a Sherwood m5 pump. the impeller shattered. I pulled all of it out and ran water backwards through it so any remaining hopefully got flushed out the front. and i did need one of those strap soft wrenches to get the plastic cover off the fresh water intake. so now i just wait for the new impeller (and the spare) so i can put it back on. i hope it was just that. thanks for all the assistance here. my mechanic is really gun ho that women should learn how to take care of their boats and i agree!
Quotemy mechanic is really gun ho that women should learn how to take care of their boats and i agree!
I believe everyone that sails should know and have tools and spares to get back or to safety for most common failures. Possibly we could start a list. Here's some starters,
Change impeller and clear raw water intake.
Change alternator belt.
Change fuel filters.
Bleed fuel system.
Check and add oil and engine coolant.
I think all the information is already here.
Jim
Change impeller and clear raw water intake.
Change alternator belt.
Change fuel filters.
Bleed fuel system.
Check and add oil and engine coolant.
I think all the information is already here.
Jim
Clear obstructions (grass/weeds, impeller pieces) from the heat exchanger, and annually inspect it.
Remove a malfunctioning (stuck closed) thermostat.
Replace (or bypass with another pump) a dead diesel lift pump.
Bleed the diesel fuel system.
Diagnose malfunctioning fuel level/temp/oil gauges/alarms.
-kk
becki
Groovy. Do you have a pic of the M-5 on your engine?
Be aware that pieces of impeller can end up in and block the heat exchanger and you'd know that only by removing the starboard side cap on it (if you haven't already.)
If you're game to get your hands dirty with maintenance, we're here to teach and provide the Go-Jo to clean up.
Ken, i could take them when i'm back but it's the 6 screw Sherwood
and yeah, thanks Ken, I'm fine getting my hands dirty. I did all the work on my 66 mustang, i was just intimidated by my ex husband insulting me about working on the boat but now he's gone so i'm good with doing what i need. and getting ready to single hand even without an autopilot.
Ok, thx. I just don't have in my library pictures of an M-5 installed on a Universal engine. I have the original engineering drawings but not pics.
Nobody intimidates a gal from Detroit! :shock:
the wariness of the divorce is wearing off and i'm not so scared of my own shadow. I'll take lots of pics of send them to you, you pick what you want. i should be there thursday of this week
Beckie : On the missing blades - try to account for each missing blade. First look in the outlet elbow on the pump and then (if necessary) like Ken mentioned take off the starboard side end cap on the HE and look in there!!
Good for you in getting "Dirty hands" acquainted with your engine!! Between the Mainsheet Tech notes (36 years worth) and WiKi on this board you'll find the solutions for just about all of your problems!!
A few thoughts
Ron, thank you!