I decided to have a rigger check my standing rigging. The boat is 31 years old and I have zero history as to when, if ever, the standing rigging was replaced by either of the prior owners. So, I decided to call N.E. Yacht Rigging and have them check everything - upper & lower shrouds, headstay, backstay, swage fittings, turnbuckles, etc. Sadly, they quickly (10 minutes?) found four very small "microcracks" in the port forward lower, starboard upper, starboard aft lower, and port split backstay. :cry4`
From the style of swage fittings and turnbuckles the rigger noted that they looked as if they were all original, hence 31 years old! Since riggers strongly recommend replacing standing rigging when it is 15 years old, he said "not only have you been living on borrowed time, your borrowed time is living on borrowed time".
Interestingly, if one were to casually look at Pleiades standing rigging one might conclude all is well. There are zero fish-hooks. There is almost no rust. Everything "looks" O.K. However, with a modest optical power magnifying glass the rigger showed me each of the four very tiny swage cracks and I was appalled that I had never noticed them. Since all the standing rigging is of the same vintage, one must conclude they are ALL nearing the end of useful life.
Has anyone else on this forum recently replaced their standing rigging? I know that I will need to un-step the mast and later re-step it which is about $700. Then there is about 100' of 5/16" diameter 316 stainless 7x19 wire for the S&P uppers, and about 230' of 1/4" diameter 316 stainless 7x19 wire for the S&P forward & aft lowers, the headstay and the split backstay, 22 swage fittings, a split backstay bracket, and 9 new turnbuckles, plus labor to remove all the old standing rigging, swage the new rigging, re-install the new rigging, re-step the mast, and finally tune the rig.
Has anyone done this recently? I have not yet received an estimate, and am curious as to how deep a hit this will be to my wallet. :cry4`
Paul Jacobs
Pleiades
1990 MK1.5 No. 1068
TR/FK
Wickford, RI
I do know it can be done with the mast up but depending on hpw you go about it I am not sure that saves much. I too am likely on my original set of standing rigging. It is on the short list of things to sort out. I will be watching this thread for cost awareness.
I replaced mine last fall. 1989 boat, mast was down. Total cost was $7800, including $2000 for a new furler (mine was obsolete and no parts were available), and $560 for an entire spool of line to replace all the halyards. I still have a bunch left over. Replaced everything except chain plates. I removed them, polished and inspected, and re-fitted. I hired a professional rigger in NE Florida to fabricate all of the new rigging and install everything. (I did assist-went up the mast, etc.) He called me later and offered me a job! LOL!
Anyway, it wasn't cheap, but I'm glad I did it. I relocated the boat from Michigan to Florida, and while everything was apart decided to do the job. I want to know what I have onboard since I'll be sailing in the ocean now.
Take a close look at the bow stem fitting and consider replacing while you are at it. It can develop a crack in the weld after repeated flexes (see pic from our pre-purchase survey).
Also see link which describes issue on Catalina 320s, essentially same issue on C34s: https://www.c320.org/filemgmt_data/files/Stemhead%20Article.pdf
Catalina Direct sells a re-engineered replacement. You send in the old one and they bend the new one to match.
I also had multi decade old standing rigging when I bought the boat. I upgraded to all 5/16" 1 x 19 wire, new turnbuckles, new single and double tangs, pins, etc. Pulled the mast to have it done 5 years ago for ~$2,400.
Paul : All of the standing rigging can be replaced with the mast up!! If you still have the Hood 915 continuous line furler, now would be the time to also get a new head sail furler -- that's what I did!! Took the rigger 3 days. I had an agreement that I would sail the boat for a month and then return so we could do any necessary adjustment - especially for the head stay!!
I kept all of the old standing rigging and labeled it. It was all in "visibly" good shape, so if I ever need to replace a new stay I have an immediate replacement while the another is made.
I talked to Hood and they gave me a great deal on a new Hood drum drive furler. Check with them. :clap
A few thoughts
I agree with wingman on replacing the stemhead fitting as well. HOWEVER, I'd go with Garhauer and not CD. CD gets them from Garhauer and doubles the price before selling it to you. They quoted me a 3 month wait as well. I called Garhauer and had a new one 2 weeks after sending them mine as a template. I highly recommend using them. They are awesome.
Two years ago, after hearing several stories about boats losing their masts and the insurance company not covering the cost of replacing them due to the age of the rigging and lack of maintenance, I had a rigger do an inspection of my rigging and give me a written report for my files. The report didn't find any issues with the rigging, but stated that although the rigging was not the original 1986 rigging, there was no way to tell how old the rigging was. Since I had already owned Squall for eleven years and the rigging wasn't new when I bought her, I decided to replace everything.
I used a local rigger who said he could do it in the slip and avoid the cost of having the mast taken down and daily yard charges. It took three days to complete the job. Cost of materials, including $500.00 for a 32 to 1 cascade system for the backstay, was $2,616.50, plus $1,050.00 for labor.
Paul : I've lost the invoice, but I believe that all the standing rigging was about $2600 and I supplied the new Hood furler. Can't remember if I put the price the Mainsheet tech note article? I was with the rigger all day acting as his helper!! That all was about 10 years ago.
The Rigger and Hood were both "Boat Show Specials" to be done the next spring!!
Very interesting doing all the swedges!!
A few thoughts
When comparing costs: make sure you are talking apples vs apples...example; are you replacing turnbuckles as well??? One Usually doesn't need to replace them, but...
Well, I finally got detailed quotes from the yard to un-step and later re-step the mast, and from the rigger to provide all parts and labor for brand new 316 Stainless Steel standing rigging.
The job involves: (1) un-stepping the mast, (2) supporting it on three saw horses, (3) removing all the current standing rigging, (4) generating all new standing rigging using 5/16" diameter 316 SS 7x19 wire for the head-stay, port & starboard upper shrouds, and the upper portion of the split backstay, and 1/4" diameter 316 SS 7x19 wire for all four lower shrouds and the P&S split backstays, (5) all new 316 SS swage fittings, and all new 316 SS clevis pins, circular cotter pins, turnbuckles, and eyes, (6) re-stepping the mast, (7) installing all the new running rigging, (8) re-installing the current 100 W solar panel on the split backstay, and (9) centering the mast, assuring it is in column, and then tuning the rig.
The cost from the yard: $810. The cost from the rigger (parts, labor & tax): $4100.
Yes, it is a considerable expense relative to the probable market value of our 31 year old C-34. On the other hand, sooner or later one of the shrouds or stays would fail under load, and the entire rig could come down, potentially endangering life and limb, and costing much more to repair / replace.
Dr. Paul Jacobs
Pleiades
1990 MK 1.5 No. 1068
TR/FK Yanmar YM30 2014
Wickford, RI
I second what TortolaTim said. Had mine done this summer at Lankford Bay Marina, Sipala Spars, Rock Hall. Said I had original 1987 rigging as I suspected. Pulled mast, replaced all rigging with new turnbuckles, Harken Roller Furler Mark 4 with all blocks and furling line, (the old hood continuous line furler was just about dead) including all crane fees labor to install rigging and furler ran about 8100. Also had new LED anchor light, steaming and deck light plus windex installed while mast was down. Glad I had it done, had grave concerns of rigging failure, dis-masting etc. All in all I think the price was fair and Mike Sipala was great to work with.
Not sure how your rigger could tell "it was 1987 original rigging"??? Carbon dating?? :abd: But if if looks bad, or has had over 10+ years of heavy use, or you don't know its history on an older new-to-you boat... change it.
Two riggers separately told me that they could tell if the rigging was original by looking at the swedges. Apparently Catalina used a technique or a brand or something that they could instantly tell if it was original or replaced.
i did mine 2 yrs ago. must take down the mast to do it right. I also sanded and painted my mast with Algrip. Took off all the fixtures, rewired. Did some of the work myself replaced the Harken furler. I would up hiring a rigger at the end because of the unusual connection at the bow. Was a big job but must take down the mast, take everything off and clean it up right.
Cliff : You do NOT need to take down the mast to replace all of the standing rigging.
Now if you want to sand the mast and do other things take the mast down, but to just change the rigging NO you can do that in the water with the mast up!!
A thought
If you want to change the masthead sheaves or remove the masthead "sheave box" that would be very tricky with the mast up if you were on a halyard. Any thoughts on that?
Noah : Unless your Bosuns chair are attached to a "sky hook", you'll need to remove the mast to change out the sheaves and or remove the mast cap.
I did all that (BB sheaves) and and ran a TV wire for my Hinkley TV Antenna while the mast was down. (Mainsheet Tech Note article)
A thought
Yep. Done all of that 6 years ago. Now I MAY have to install a longer spinnaker crane which involves taking the cap off. I am having issues with limited clearance for my top down spinnaker. I was thinking a crane at the yard in a bosuns chair. Also, one rigger said he could go up on a halyard, tie off "somewhere else" up there, then disconnect himself, still sitting in the chair, and remove mast cap assembly to switch out the spinnaker crane—which is through-bolted to the cap. Hopefully I can sort this issue out without having to install a new spinnaker crane.
Quote from: Noah on October 10, 2021, 07:31:52 PM
Not sure how your rigger could tell "it was 1987 original rigging"??? Carbon dating?? :abd: But if if looks bad, or has had over 10+ years of heavy use, or you don't know its history on an older new-to-you boat... change it.
Apparently there is an identifying mark on some part of the rigging, I don't remember which, the manufacturers started using sometime in the early 90's. Prior to that there was no mark. Ours had no mark confirming my suspicion it was original rigging.
New England Yacht Rigging (East Greenwich, RI) has now completed all the standing rigging and installed all six shrouds and the headstay and split backstay on the mast, which is still on the hard. The mast should be re-stepped early next week, with everything tuned thereafter (viz. mast centered, all standing rigging tensioned, insuring the mast is straight, and also positioning Pleiades solar panel high on the split backstay).
In addition to doing all of this they also: (1) replaced a surprisingly worn vertical gooseneck bolt (31 years of tacks and gybes), (2) removed the old, bent Windex (evidently a gull sat on it) and installed a new one, (3) installed new rubber spreader tip "booties", and (4) removed the evidently 31 year old main halyard masthead sheeve, and replaced it with a brand new ball bearing sheeve. I did not care about the sheeves for the genoa halyard - since we only use it to tension the genoa halyard in the spring, and release it in the fall, so extra friction there is briefly noted, and we also rarely fly the asymmetric chute anymore. However, we use the main halyard almost every time we sail, and reduced friction should help with both raising and lowering the mainsail.
Has anyone else replaced their main halyard masthead sheeve with a new ball bearing sheeve? Did it make much difference when raising the main?
Paul Jacobs
Pleiades
1990 MK 1.5 No. 1068
TR / FK
Wickford, RI
Paul : I replaced all 4 sheaves with BB sheaves. You will note some difference, but the main friction is from the couple of 90 degree turned down below!!
I lessened some of those angles and got the BB deck turning blocks. My friend said his main difference was when he mounted a #30 winch on the mast and hoisted his main there!
A few thoughts
The final numbers are in.
Pleasant Street Wharf, Wickford, RI.
1. Disconnect all the standing rigging and mast wiring.
2. Remove the solar panel from the split backstay.
3. Un-step the mast and place it on saw horses. Then, after the riggers had done their thing;
4. Reposition and reconnect the solar panel, and its wiring.
5. Step the mast
6. Connect the new standing rigging. Total = $ 990
New England Yacht Rigging, East Greenwich, RI.
1. Swage new 5/16" 316 SS 1x19 headstay, P&S upper shrouds, and upper backstay.
2. Swage new 1/4" 316 SS 1x19 P&S forward lower, aft lower, and split backstays.
3. Attach all new 316 SS turnbuckles, clevis pins, marine eyes, toggles, and round cotters.
4. Install a new ball bearing main halyard masthead sheeve.
5. Install a new masthead Windex.
6. Install new white rubber spreader tip "booties".
7. Tune the rigging. Total = $4598
I noted immediately that the shrouds were tighter than they had been previously. Nancy and I took Pleiades out onto Narragansett Bay yesterday. The winds ranged from 5-7 knots around noon to 20 - 25 knots by 4 pm, so these presented a nice sailing range. Boat speeds and apparent wind angles were extremely close (viz. +/- 0.1 knots and +/- 2 degrees) on both starboard and port tacks. The shrouds and turnbuckles are all "bright and shiny", the boat sails beautifully, and the new standing rigging will likely outlive me! As my beloved Nancy often says "IOMH" - "Its Only Money Honey" and we can't take it with us!
Thanks for reporting back. This is on my short list of need to do's.