Launched the other day only to find the bilge at the floor boards two days later...water coming in at the shaft... slow but steady... its not the stuffing box. I am back on the hard and my man (former Junior sailor of mine now 40) will be tackling the job. Any suggestions as to what to look for when we pull the shaft? My man says, "see what Stu and Ron have to say." Of course we are open to any and only suggestions.
Mark Cassidy
Olcott, Lake Ontario
Just had to replace the rubber hose between the prop tube and the stuffing box.
One cut/crack about 1 inch long. Steady leak. Might take a look at yours.
If indeed it is as you said, "leaking from the shaft but NOT the stuffing box..." I would guess it could only be a few suspects.
1. Loose hose clamps
2. Crack in shaft log hose
3. Crack in fiberglass shaft log itself or where it is glassed to hull.
Not much else there, unless strut bolts leaking; but unlikely.
Mark : Just replace that rubber hose from the molded hull tube to the packing gland.
As I recall there have been a number of posts on the very topic mentioning which hose to use. check WiKi
A thought
Thanks all... my guy gets back in town Monday... he was hoping it is the rubber hose, he replaced that once before some years back. If it's fiberglass, he is nervous but that is the nature of the beast. I'll let you know.
Mark
CTY used, at least on the C30, typical exhaust hose, not log hose, which is heavier (6 ply vs 4 ply, IIRC.)
Obviously it should be replaced with the heavier hose.
Sorry to hear that the C30s were built wrong.
For those of you wondering where to get the right hose, I remembered the name Buck Algonquin and found a link from former C34IA Commodore Ken Juul with a link to their website. Herer's a link to the hoses and clamps section for stern tube hose:
https://www.hydrasearchrecreational.com/hose-fittings/
CD also has them. They carry two thicknesses of hose.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-30/engine/props-etc/stuffing-box-hd-hose-kitw-clamps-1-58quot-id/?SearchResults=1
Mark : I'm suspect that you may well have a cracked log tube because " he replaced that (rubber?) once before some years back"!!
Just make sure that it is thoroughly inspected before you take on a simple rubber tube replacement!
A thought
Quote from: Stu Jackson on May 30, 2021, 09:36:50 AM
Sorry to hear that the
C30s were built wrong.
https://www.hydrasearchrecreational.com/hose-fittings/
THANKS!!! for that link Stu. Now I know where to get the correct one!!!
(the problem is that the log angle didn't let the thicker hose fit, but all it takes is to clean out some of the leftover sloppy fiberglass work with a Dremel, then the heavy hose fits.)
Ken-interestingly, Catalina Direct references the C30 clearance problem and still sells the thinner hose to address this issue.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-38/engine/props-etc/stuffing-box-hose-kitw-clamps-1-58quot-id/?SearchResults=1
Noah, Ah ha! I know of many who easily worked around the "design fault" and went to the correct hose. IIRC the Atomic 4 models didn't have that issue but when Gerry D stuffed the diesel into the box the shaft angle changed. At least that's what I THINK the deal was (but CRS.)
Well, pulled shaft yesterday and alas, Noah and Ron were right it is a fiberglass issue not simply the rubber shaft hose. Going to have another guy look see this morning.... any suggestions?
Mark
The replacement part is available, if your old one is cracked bad enough to be unrepairable. However, I do not know enough about what is involved to install it or repair it to advise you. Good luck.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-30/engine/props-etc/shaft-log-fiberglass/?SearchResults=1
Mark : send us a picture! Can you slide the hose further back to cover the crack and then clamp the rear of the hose?
If you can't, can you mat and glass over the crack and slide the hose up to the "patch" and the clamp with no leakage?
A few thoughts
Had the surveyor down from the Ins co. he said it was cracked... and he said it's an easy fix. My guy who has worked on a lot of boats in the yard is nervous about the job. We have an experienced guy as a club member who has worked in a local yard for years and is willing to help but he is not "familiar" with this. I can send a video that my guy took and was hoping to get some local yard to send someone but they are all buried. Let me know where to send the video. Surveyor took lots of pictures but I have yet to get the estimate. When I do I will ask him to send some pics as well. There is some wear under the shaft log as well, motor must have been out of alignment.
Did you say I could order the shaft log?
Mark : Here's a thought, you might have to first have to check the shaft to make sure it is a true round and not bent. Then reinstall the shaft in the cutless bearing strut and check the alignment with the engine. What you are doing is working backwards like the jig in the factory.
When the shaft is in the cutless and aligned with the engine, then install a new shaft log in the hull. That way the strut is the fixed piece and you align everything from and around it!?!
My best guess !
I agree with Ron.
Ron,
Can you send me your email and I will send pictures. Had a video but unfortunately deleted it.... The surveyor said it was an east fix ... just get the proper sizded PVC to go over what is left of the shaft log and glass that in.... my guy says not as easy as that... still working on a solution.
My guy not seen anything like this before and local yards are swamped and can't send anyone. I do have a buddy retired from local yard has promised to "oversee" the fix... just need to get right sized replacement log shaft substitute. Does anyone know the inside diameter of that shaft log? I ordered a replacement log but that would entail really tearing things apart to replace the whole thing.
@Mark
Plz post picz. I wouldn't think that pvc is proper, but...
Could the log be wrapped in place w/epoxy & carbon?
Whereabouts is the crack? Could a large new log (split down the middle using a band saw) be used to sandwich the current log and leave enough of the old for the hose?
Mark : You'll just have to measure the OD of your existing log where the crack is. Don't know if you can mat and epoxy/glass and then slide a hose over that fix??
Then slide a hose over it and keep the original log? That's what I'd try. Then use a hose with an ID that will go over the fix and still be clamped next to the log entrance thru the hull. Just make sure it is a good grade hose.
A few thoughts
Going to send a final copy to the shaft log repair I started some time back... my guy Ryan Restivo wrote up a summary as requested by the forum... here it is:
"Spring 2021. Catalina 34 was taking in steady slow stream of water at time of launch. After inspection and tightening bellows, leak still persisted. Hauled boat back on the hard. Slid bellows forward and discovered the shaft log tube was almost destroyed, with it being completely split along bottom of it, with also a tiny amount of wear into hull( hence where the water was seeping into boat). Could put fingers through bottom of shaft log tube. Stainless shaft was much out of alignment and had been wearing probably for quite awhile. Engine mounts looked normal and no signs of wear. Bellows and packing also showed signs of heavy wear. Proper repair would be drop rudder, remove shaft completely, bore out old shaft log tube, install new one and glass into hull. Adjuster came and recommended not replacing it but rather sleeve over existing tube with PVC. That caused me countless sleepless nights trying to figure out how that would be possible. Most of us know PVC and epoxy do not bond well together. Also shaft log tube was supposed to be 1 5/8 o.d. and PVC only comes in 1 1/2 and 2 inch inside diameter, with a rather heavy wall making it way over the proper o.d. of 1 5/8 i desired. A fellow mate at our local club suggested sizing up one of his tapered carbon fiber sailboard masts (we both used to sailboard in our much younger days). Miraculously it was thin walled and a perfect match! Fit snug over existing damaged tube and left me with exactly 1 5/8 inch o.d. I was concerned about cutting 3 inches off a 500 dollar carbon fiber mast but my matey assured me that although we often talk of sailboarding the gear had been sitting stagnant in his locker for over 10 years! So i made the cut and glassed it in heavily. Got new packing fitting and bellows. Then came the hard part. Re aligning engine. Soaked mounts with PB blaster overnight. Freed up all mounts. The engine was sitting quite low in comparison to straight line of shaft. Hub jumped up a good 1/2 inch when i separated it from engine. I adjusted engine up until shaft looked as centered as possible in shaft log tube visually. Then slid shaft back out of hub and put bellows and packing into place. Then slid shaft back into hub and hub up to engine. Checked alignment with feeler guage (around .003) and torqued everything back into place. Launched boat and tested with a local boat mechanic present. He said alignment was perfect. To be clear i was lacking confidence or desire to tackle this job, and i did as much research online as possible on the subject. That led me to the most confusing part. That the boat will change shape, possibly drastically, in the water and would have to realign once it relaxes in water for a few days. ??? How would i see position of shaft in shaft tube with bellows all in place and clamped tight.
Research said remove hub from engine and use feel to see if it's centered in tube. So i did, and sure enough it changed and was off again. So i loosened mounts, and went at it again, until i felt shaft was centered in tube and mated with engine at same time. Then re torqued everything back into place again. We need to test run boat again to check for cavitation and probably will need fine tuning again with the feeler guage. For now she is leak free and floating peacefully at her berth. That is my story and i'm sticking to it! Take care everyone."
Mark : Congratulations!!! on the repair!! You might want to send it on for the Mainsheet tech notes!! I'm sure you're ready for a nice sailing season!!
"There is no substitute for Victory" :thumb:
A few thoughts
Congrats as well!!! However, not to nit-pik, but I once again want to dispel the notion that one needs to drop the rudder to remove the prop shaft. This is not necessary (this is my experience on the standard, non-elliptical rudder). The shaft will slide past the rudder.
Great solution.
BTW for others (who hopefully won't ever need this info) McMaster-Carr sells a 1-ft pc of 1-1/2 ID x 1-5/8 OD carbon fiber tube for $69.
I am attaching the write up my guy did who repaired my shaft log .... interesting. I will attach some pics as well...
Spring 2021. Catalina 34 was taking in steady slow stream of water at time of launch. After inspection and tightening bellows, leak still persisted. Hauled boat back on the hard. Slid bellows forward and discovered the shaft log tube was almost destroyed, with it being completely split along bottom of it, with also a tiny amount of wear into hull( hence where the water was seeping into boat). Could put fingers through bottom of shaft log tube. Stainless shaft was much out of alignment and had been wearing probably for quite awhile. Engine mounts looked normal and no signs of wear. Bellows and packing also showed signs of heavy wear. Proper repair would be drop rudder, remove shaft completely, bore out old shaft log tube, install new one and glass into hull. Adjuster came and recommended not replacing it but rather sleeve over existing tube with PVC. That caused me countless sleepless nights trying to figure out how that would be possible. Most of us know PVC and epoxy do not bond well together. Also shaft log tube was supposed to be 1 5/8 o.d. and PVC only comes in 1 1/2 and 2 inch inside diameter, with a rather heavy wall making it way over the proper o.d. of 1 5/8 i desired. A fellow mate at our local club suggested sizing up one of his tapered carbon fiber sailboard masts (we both used to sailboard in our much younger days). Miraculously it was thin walled and a perfect match! Fit snug over existing damaged tube and left me with exactly 1 5/8 inch o.d. I was concerned about cutting 3 inches off a 500 dollar carbon fiber mast but my matey assured me that although we often talk of sailboarding the gear had been sitting stagnant in his locker for over 10 years! So i made the cut and glassed it in heavily. Got new packing fitting and bellows. Then came the hard part. Re aligning engine. Soaked mounts with PB blaster overnight. Freed up all mounts. The engine was sitting quite low in comparison to straight line of shaft. Hub jumped up a good 1/2 inch when i separated it from engine. I adjusted engine up until shaft looked as centered as possible in shaft log tube visually. Then slid shaft back out of hub and put bellows and packing into place. Then slid shaft back into hub and hub up to engine. Checked alignment with feeler guage (around .003) and torqued everything back into place. Launched boat and tested with a local boat mechanic present. He said alignment was perfect. To be clear i was lacking confidence or desire to tackle this job, and i did as much research online as possible on the subject. That led me to the most confusing part. That the boat will change shape, possibly drastically, in the water and would have to realign once it relaxes in water for a few days. ??? How would i see position of shaft in shaft tube with bellows all in place and clamped tight.
Research said remove hub from engine and use feel to see if it's centered in tube. So i did, and sure enough it changed and was off again. So i loosened mounts, and went at it again, until i felt shaft was centered in tube and mated with engine at same time. Then re torqued everything back into place again. We need to test run boat again to check for cavitation and probably will need fine tuning again with the feeler guage. For now she is leak free and floating peacefully at her berth. That is my story and i'm sticking to it! Take care everyone.
Sent from my iPhone