Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: junaido on April 11, 2021, 09:59:14 PM

Title: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 11, 2021, 09:59:14 PM
I have a M25 engine on my '86 C34. We were attempting to burp the coolant system after replacing the coolant. Based on my research on this board, I decided to pull the water heater loop hose off the thermostat assembly and fill it with coolant. When I went to pull the 3/8" hose from the thermostat the whole fitting pulled out. Apparently it was hanging on by a thread (no pun intended). Attempts to screw it back in were futile. I am wondering if it was the wrong fitting or if I need to tap this hole. Is this fitting a Universal part or can any pipe/fitting place provide the replacement? Fitting in question looks like the attached pic but a lot dirtier.
2nd question, What is this silver/black fitting on the thermostat? Is it a water temp alarm? I noticed a disconnected wire in this same vicinity (the blue colored thing at the bottom of the picture).

Thanks,
Junaid
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 11, 2021, 10:00:06 PM
pic
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 11, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
Fitting pic
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 11, 2021, 10:39:12 PM
Junaid

The hose nipples on the coolant pump and thermostat housing are 1/8" JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) pipe thread, which is functionally equivalent to British Standard Pipe Taper (BSPT) thread. They are Kubota parts - check the Kubota parts manual for the D850 or D950 engines on the TechWiki site under the Manuals topic.
Did it break off (no thread on your part?) or are the female threads bad?

You might need to put it back in w/ JB Weld or stronger epoxy if the female threads are gone. I really don't recall if there is enough room, but if so you could tap it to 1/4" NPT thread and use a larger hose barb.

Tho I don't recommend it, as a practical matter 1/8" JIS is SO VERY close to 1/8" NPT (18 vs 17 thread/inch) that one screws into the other and with pipe dope doesn't leak. Before I knew they were JIS thread I replaced both hose nipples with NPT street elbows and barbs (see pic)  because I needed to run my hoses to port. Nary a leak there (but again I'm not recommending you mix NPT/JIS threads.)

-ken

Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 11, 2021, 10:52:22 PM
PPS.
The OEM terminal has a black plastic holder for the actual terminal end. Your alt shop likely won't have the correct plastic carrier, but you can cut that slot w/a dremel.

The ones on the Alts are a solid plastic but for the switch you need a slot cut down partway (the plastic slides sideways onto the button):

(https://www.catalinadirect.com/images/products/2433/Z2753_S04_1819_lg.jpg)

while on an alt the plastic mates endways:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41f2B1iVfTL._AC_SX466_.jpg)

Or order a pigtail, there's many around.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coolant-Temperature-Switch-Pigtail-Connector-GM-Temperature-Sending-Unit-Gauge-/372943712384

But that type terminal is really sucky for a marine engine application/environment and should ideally be changed.





PS. The other unit is your High Temperature Alarm Switch.   The PO replaced the original M-25 TStat cap (which didn't have a threaded port for that switch) with the new style TStat cap.
The terminal on the wire is the wrong one, and probably fell off the switch.  A 1/4" quick disconnect terminal is not the correct one, that switch takes a male "Delphi Packard 56" terminal.  It's the same button terminal that I've seen available online as a replacement pigtail for a 'Vette engine at an ungodly price.  The female terminal is spring-loaded so it stays on and is the same used on many alternator Field connections and so if take the switch you might be able to have a local auto alternator shop make up a pigtail to butt crimp on the alarm wire. 
It's a PITA terminal that doesn't belong on a boat. There's replacement switches that have a 1/4" male tab (quick disconnect) terminal.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 12, 2021, 10:43:29 AM
Ken,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Really appreciate it. The nipple is not engaging with the hole at all, so JB Weld etc. won't help much. There is plenty of female thread so I think I will try Kubota/Universal dealers in the Seattle area to see if I can find something with compatible male threads (JIS, British or NPT in that order). Hopefully it's not cross-threaded and I can get it back in with pipe dope or something. I will reconnect the water temp connector.
Regards,
Junaid
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Stu Jackson on April 12, 2021, 10:47:19 AM
Ken's right about the manuals in the wiki.

It is critical to note that there is a KUBOTA manual for the M25, B6200 tractor engine IIRC.  I use that all the time when I go to get parts for my M25 at my local tractor dealer.  I print the page out and bingo, parts are easy.

FYI, 99% of the XP parts are the same as the M25, at least the ones you are involved with here.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 12, 2021, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: junaido on April 12, 2021, 10:43:29 AM
Ken,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Really appreciate it. The nipple is not engaging with the hole at all, so JB Weld etc. won't help much. There is plenty of female thread so I think I will try Kubota/Universal dealers in the Seattle area to see if I can find something with compatible male threads (JIS, British or NPT in that order). Hopefully it's not cross-threaded and I can get it back in with pipe dope or something. I will reconnect the water temp connector.
Regards,
Junaid

The female is 1/8" JST.
The hose nipple is 1/8" JST and you have THE OEM KUBOTA PART.
These are FACTS, not opinions.

If they are not threading together then one OR BOTH threads are worn or sheared off or corroded away (galvanic corrosion.)
The only other size would be 1/4" JST (or NPT) but you'd see that huge difference in size if the PO retapping the port (which I can see it wasn't.)
From the pic it APPEARS that you might be able to retap the housing to 1/4" NPT for a new hose barb.

If the threads are not engaging because of factors I describe, then YOU DO NEED JB (or preferably a stronger aluminum-reinforced epoxy like Devcon Stu used or there's others) to mate them back together.

I don't mean to be curt, but I've "lived" that engine for 30 years worth of pain.
YBYC, go ahead and waste your time looking for a Kubota or Westerbeke dealer to get a fitting that works when yours is THE CORRECT/OEM one.  How? Take the engine to them and try different size thread hose barbs?
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 12, 2021, 11:42:21 AM
I am not sure where the JB Weld is applied? Outside the hole? The nipple isn't fitting in the hole.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Stu Jackson on April 12, 2021, 11:47:19 AM
I would caution against using JBW on your engine.  While my application was on a stud, there wasn't much pressure involved, but it failed.  I really believe it is inappropriate for this use and highly recommend Devcon, which you can get in small tubes, 1/2 the size of toothpaste tubes, for $15.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 12, 2021, 11:54:45 AM
I am happy to use Devcon, but just want to understand what you guys are advocating. Just place the nipple at the mouth of the opening with no threads engaged and slather Devcon around it and then put the hose back on? Or get a slightly smaller nipple that goes into the hole so it is a better connection before applying the Devcon?
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 12, 2021, 12:20:23 PM
Quote from: junaido on April 12, 2021, 11:54:45 AM
I am happy to use Devcon, but just want to understand what you guys are advocating. Just place the nipple at the mouth of the opening with no threads engaged and slather Devcon around it and then put the hose back on? Or get a slightly smaller nipple that goes into the hole so it is a better connection before applying the Devcon?

NO!!
From your original post it appears the fitting was IN the TStat then pulled out, so it should go back in.

Ok, first I'd chase both threads with a 1/8" JST/BSPT tap and die.  Then if they mate up (and tighten?) you're good to go (with pipe dope or PTFE.)

If after chasing the fit is loose or non existent, then use epoxy as you would pipe dope to replace, essentially, the missing thread(s) and "weld-in"' the fitting in place after you screw it in.

Research the specs on whichever epoxy you use if it comes to that. I've seen lice a 10x difference between different "metal replacing" products. I really have no clue where Devcon falls on the scale but it certainly worked (knock on teak) for Stu's water pump stud.

Another thought (just an option 2 depending on what you find after chasing the threads) epoxy in a bushing that you can screw that or another hose barb into (so you can remove/replace it down the road if need be.)

Option 3, get a new TStat housing (I ass/u/me that part is still available from Kb.  The CAP is Westerbeke not Kb, but the lower housing is Kb.)

Option 4, if able retap the housing port to 1/4" NPT.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Stu Jackson on April 12, 2021, 12:41:41 PM
Ken's right, he's giving you the OPTIONS.  Only you can decide what you think you can and/or should do.  Photos can only go so far in showing the actual condition of material.  I'd show you a picture of a nice piece of wood, but then pinch it between my fingers and it'd crumble.  Like that.  Could happen with metal, too.

ITWMB, I'd go for option 3.  There was a recent thread here about a skipper who messed up threads on an application on his boat and eventually admitted that he should have used new fasteners instead of the old ones.  When in doubt, or when replacing something buy new.  Easy for me to spend your money, right?  But if you think about it, we're trying to save you money and aggravation.

Good luck.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 12, 2021, 01:27:58 PM
BTW if you plug in the Option 3 part number in the parts search at www.Messicks.com it will tell you whether it's still available and/or any superseded part numbers.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Noah on April 12, 2021, 01:30:42 PM
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-38/electrical/high-temp-alarm-retrofit-m-18-m-25-m-25xp-m-35/?SearchResults=1
Only money :cry4`
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Ron Hill on April 12, 2021, 02:33:56 PM
juniad : I'd take that tube with the male threads to your local Kubota dealer and have their maintenance guy identify the threads.  Then tap & die to cleanup everything so you can screw the tube back in.  You should be good to go!

A few thoughts
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 12, 2021, 09:19:59 PM
Quote from: Noah on April 12, 2021, 01:30:42 PM

Only money :cry4`


True! (But not the replacement part he'd need)!!  Easy to say 'replace," but the larger issue is that replacing the water flange might first need larger surgery (like removing the gear case.)

IMO, what does one have to lose in trying to chase the threads before replacing the part or retapping to 1/4" NPT?  (answer: just the cost of the tap n die.)
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Noah on April 12, 2021, 10:07:19 PM
Sorry, my bad: thought that housing was what you needed but now this blind man sees that the threads are buggered-up below the housing. Good luck.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 17, 2021, 07:44:31 PM
So I got the nipple from the local Universal dealer (same price as the Kubota dealer $17). Managed to get it on after some effort. Put coolant into the hose and it almost immediately comes out of the nipple. We put the hose  back on and started the engine. It overheated after about 10 minutes (at least the water temp alarm works great now once I put that loose wire back on the connector).  Tried opening the petcock on top of the thermostat.  Coolant dribbles out the petcock after temp reached 180, but water temp keeps increasing so I shut off the engine shortly after that point (1 - 2 minutes at most). Tried this a few times but engine still overheats after a little bit.  Coolant is hot but the hot water at the sink is still cold. Not sure why? Water is coming out the back more or less normally. Am I missing something? Does the radiator cap need to be off or on when the petcock is open ( we tried it both ways)? There is a cabin heater that apparently uses engine heat, is that another loop that needs air removal? The whole saga started after replacing the large hose that carries coolant back to the heat exchanger, did that hose need to filled with coolant before securing it with clamps? Any advice / suggestions will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Junaid
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 17, 2021, 10:19:23 PM
First it's difficult understanding which hoses you're speaking of. Putting coolant into THE hose?  The LARGE hose.  Please be more specific.
Maybe this will help you understand the coolant flow:
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/wiki/9626

It sounds like you need to burp the system if you're overheating. Do a search - there's info on that (maybe in the 101 series?)

I'm confused about the nipple. Is it a different size than what you originally had or just that with new threads  it screwed into the housing. Did you chase those threads?
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 17, 2021, 10:24:13 PM
I put coolant in the 3/8" hose that goes on the nipple and is part of the water heater loop. As for the nipple, the old one had corroded threads which was probably why it wasn't going on.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 17, 2021, 11:03:59 PM
And which hose did you replace?
As far as the other heater you'd need to trace out the hoses to see what feeds that but there could be air in that.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Stu Jackson on April 18, 2021, 09:19:36 AM
Quote from: junaido on April 17, 2021, 07:44:31 PM
..................
..................

Coolant is hot but the hot water at the sink is still cold. Not sure why? Water is coming out the back more or less normally. Am I missing something? Does the radiator cap need to be off or on when the petcock is open ( we tried it both ways)? There is a cabin heater that apparently uses engine heat, is that another loop that needs air removal? The whole saga started after replacing the large hose that carries coolant back to the heat exchanger, did that hose need to filled with coolant before securing it with clamps? Any advice / suggestions will be much appreciated.


Yes, you MUST remove ALL the air in the fresh water coolant loop.

We have suggested this way to do it many times, in the 101 topics:

Engine Overheating 101 - How to Burp Your Engine (Reply #6)  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4518.msg26462.html#msg26462

The concept is to introduce water into the hoses at the highest point.  If the additional loop to the space heater makes it hard to do it this way, you must find a way to get air out of that section, too.  One way would be to remove both hoses at the thermostat and pump water into the system with a hand pump until all the air is expelled and water comes out the second hose, not air.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Noah on April 18, 2021, 10:36:07 AM
Burping system can take awhile too. I have had to Start and stop engine a few times with alarm going off before all air finally cleared.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 18, 2021, 11:19:16 AM
As I mentioned in my earlier email. I took the WH 3/8" loop hose off the thermostat and poured antifreeze in. Almost immediately it started coming out of the thermostat hole. To me that seemed sufficient evidence that that loop was air-free. However I am puzzled why the hot water at sink never heated up despite running the engine repeatedly for the "burping" process.  Is it because the coolant only circulates in the water heater loop AFTER the thermostat opens? That would explain the lack of warm water at the faucet as I had to shut off the engine fairly quickly after the thermostat opened. The coolant itself gets pretty hot by the time I shut the engine off.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 18, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: KWKloeber on April 17, 2021, 11:03:59 PM
And which hose did you replace?

The large 7/8" hose that is about 2-3 foot long and carries coolant from the pump to the heat exchanger was the hose we replaced.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Stu Jackson on April 18, 2021, 02:30:46 PM
Quote from: junaido on April 18, 2021, 11:19:16 AM
1.  As I mentioned in my earlier email. I took the WH 3/8" loop hose off the thermostat and poured antifreeze in. Almost immediately it started coming out of the thermostat hole. To me that seemed sufficient evidence that that loop was air-free.

2.  However I am puzzled why the hot water at sink never heated up despite running the engine repeatedly for the "burping" process.  Is it because the coolant only circulates in the water heater loop AFTER the thermostat opens? That would explain the lack of warm water at the faucet as I had to shut off the engine fairly quickly after the thermostat opened. The coolant itself gets pretty hot by the time I shut the engine off.

1.  That's why I suggested using a pump.  Another thing you can do is to blow into one of the two hoses, the one you're pouring the water into.  That will force any air out of the other hose, then continue to fill the first hose.

The "old way" to do this was to use the petcock on the top of the thermostat.  As Noah said, sometimes it took a few tries doing it this way.  Be patient, it may take a few times.

2.  As hot as the coolant may be, it takes at least 15-20 minutes to heat water in the water heater when at cruising speed rpms.  It takes a LOT longer at essentially idle speed.  If you ware working on burping your engine, its not the time to be dealing with domestic hot water.  You could check if the hoses to the heater are getting warm,under the sink.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: waughoo on April 18, 2021, 03:14:50 PM
I just finished replacing EVERY SINGLE HOSE in the fresh and raw water circuit.  To be clear, this included the original painted hoses the engine came with.  For the lines to the hot water tank, I used a funnel into the 3/8 hose and filled that with water.  Leaving the other hose off, I blew into the funnel till water came out clear.  I then continued to pour water till the watter oozed out of the second hose.  Next, I filled through the exhaust jacket till the water started to come hout of the water pump barb.  I then connected the H2O tank hose to the water pump.  Next I poured more water into the funnel toll water came out the T-Stat barb and then connected that hose.  Next I added coolant till the water in the exhaust jacket was full and started the engine.  As it warmed up, I would jiggle the 3/8" hoses to the h2o tank and press them lower than the filler neck of the exhaust jacket.  I also opened the bleed screw on the tstat housing.  To aid in getti g the engine to temp, I ran the engine in gear at about 1500rpm.  Multiple jiggles, tstat bleeder screw open and closed and a few revs in neutral and she was fully burped.  Ive had it runni g now for about 1.5 hrs and the temp has beeen rock solid!!  It isnt hard, just fiddly.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Noah on April 18, 2021, 04:13:46 PM
Alex- You are "the hardest working guy in show biz..."  :clap
if you ever get tired of the NW weather come on down to San Diego. I have plently off hoses you can change! 8)
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 18, 2021, 04:52:20 PM
This morning I went back to the boat and was gratified to see that the coolant had gone down in the tank.  Added coolant and ran at the dock in gear for 10-15 minutes. Temp held steady at 160. Will try venturing out next weekend and see if it still  holds under load for extended periods.  Thanks again for all your helpful advice.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 18, 2021, 04:55:04 PM
Quote from: junaido on April 18, 2021, 11:19:16 AM

Is it because the coolant only circulates in the water heater loop AFTER the thermostat opens?


NO. The WH loop is below the TStat so coolant (heatant?) circulates immediately.
THAT's the beauty of how the WH is plumbed. The OLD m-25s (C-30s) the WH was plumbed in series with the Hx, and one COULD NEVER get hot water at idle, only when underway w/ a load on the engine.

The coolant flows from the engine block, to the base of the water flange, to the WH, back to the coolant pump, back into the block. If you LOOKED AT the coolant flow diagram I prepared, that's evident that the TStat is out of the loop as far as heating domestic water.
Sometimes there's an air lock in the coolant pump itself and the impeller cannot push water thru the engine block. Make sure it's filled full.

You can expel a lot of air at the pressure cap.  Open, rev the engine, level will go down and add coolant.  As you keep circulating (there is a bypass at the TStat so some coolant ALWAYS flows) air can bubble out at the open cap.

The key others are saying is make sure you fill everything to the extent possible before burping. See the instructions.

If the other heater is plumber in THAT could be affecting how quickly or if at all the WH heat up.  If the return hot water line from the WH is hot, then heatant is getting there and back to the engine.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: waughoo on April 18, 2021, 06:58:19 PM
Quote from: Noah on April 18, 2021, 04:13:46 PM
Alex- You are "the hardest working guy in show biz..."  :clap
if you ever get tired of the NW weather come on down to San Diego. I have plently off hoses you can change! 8)

Noah... I cant say I want to do that again anytime soon!!  However, it makes me very happy to know their condition.  The boat was not well maintained by the last owner so I have chosen to basically do a restoration of sorts of all the systems.  I used all spiral wire hose and it was actually a treat to work with. 

I had a bit left over and decided to also replace the propane locker hoses.they were pretty crappy.  Well, that single job was almost harder than the whole errffing engine hose job.  It was like part boat yoga mixed with a rubix cube (I have a 1.5).  That locker the box sits in is crazy small for the box.  I then went to put the lid on and THAT required passing it from the stbd locker to the port behind the radial wheel and then over tk the fuel tank area, up the hull into the coaming and then back down on the box.  This puzzle took me a full 40 minutes to sort out.  :abd:
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 19, 2021, 08:38:25 AM
Quote from: junaido on April 18, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: KWKloeber on April 17, 2021, 11:03:59 PM
And which hose did you replace?

The large 7/8" hose that is about 2-3 foot long and carries coolant from the pump to the heat exchanger was the hose we replaced.


That 7/8" hose (there's three of them) is the RETURN from the Hx to the engine block. It's important that hose be wire wound because it's a suction hose.  It's like a lower radiator hose in an auto.
Again
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/wiki/9626
it's helpful to understand the intricacies of our engines, if nothing more than to make future troubleshooting quicker when time is of the essence (like overheating while in a "delicate" situation on the water.)
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Ron Hill on April 19, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Guys : The easiest way I found to "Burp" the water heater, was to connect a small Japsco PAR hand pump to the return water heater return line (off the engine pump).  With a short hose from the PAR output into the coolant reservoir - I just pumped (circulated) the engine coolant until I got a steady flow of coolant without air bubbles!  Simple as that!!

A thought
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: waughoo on April 19, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
I like that idea Ron!  Stored away for next coolant system opening.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 19, 2021, 04:47:12 PM
Since this whole issue really started with the nipple pulling out along with the hose, I have become very averse to hose pulling methods to bleed air out of the coolant system. I am going to resort to petcock in the future. Maybe try that contraption that is mentioned elsewhere that can be fitted in the thermostat pet cock opening.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Stu Jackson on April 19, 2021, 06:17:22 PM
Quote from: junaido on April 19, 2021, 04:47:12 PM
Since this whole issue really started with the nipple pulling out along with the hose, I have become very averse to hose pulling methods to bleed air out of the coolant system. I am going to resort to petcock in the future. Maybe try that contraption that is mentioned elsewhere that can be fitted in the thermostat pet cock opening.

junaido,

I respect and understand your reasoning.

Perhaps you may want to reconsider the reasons for your decision, because I think the way you got to it is actually a GOOD thing since you found a problem and fixed it by being proactive.

What I can share are my own experiences over 24 years of ownership and being a BMW.  :D

Soon after we bought our boat I was motoring in the Oakland Estuary, off our marina, going to visit a friend in an adjacent marina maybe five minutes or so away.  My engine overheated.  I was lucky is was a Tuesday morning with very little traffic.  I shut the engine down and carefully watched that the current wasn't setting me into harm's way.  Even then (19998 or 9) I had read ALL of the existing tech notes, since the PO was kind enough to save all of the Mainsheet magazines ]including the tech notes] from when he bought the boat in 1986.  I remembered the suggestions to use the petcock on top of the thermostat to bleed the air out, so I removed the companionway steps and turned her back on, revved her up from the cockpit (I hadn't yet learned how to do it from right at the engine), and popped the petcock.  It took a few trips up and down to do this.

Since that experience, I was acutely aware of the difficulties of using the petcock,, since I was stupid and didn't use an oven mitt to do that.   :cry4`

I was hoping that someone would come up with "A Better Way."

And Ron Hill did.  The minute I read his suggestion of filling the hose(s), I was convinced.  Because one of the first things I needed to do was to replace my anemic 2" HX with a 3" HX, I, of course, had to drain my coolant.  I saved most of it, using the technique I photographed years later in that linked 101 Burp thread.  I have been using it, successfully, ever since, over two decades, and have replaced the hX a few times for various reasons documented on this forum.

I simply recommend to you that instead of NOT using something that works better than the petcock without installing anything else, you consider using what 30 years of experience has taught us.

I am aware of Maine Sail's suggestion of using an automatic air vent for that purpose.  I have seen photos of it.  If I had a link, I'd include it.

The reason I don't have a link immediately at hand is because I am convinced one of those really neat fittings would simply NOT fit on the top of our engines with the steps right above it.  It might work on a C36 or a C30 but I really don't think it would on our boats.  Indeed, if it would so easily, I haven't heard of anyone installing one.

Why?  Maybe because it won't fit (if it did I'd bet a whole bunch of us would have done so, similar to routing the air breather hose to the engine intake).  But perhaps more importantly, is that Ron's method, pump or not, simply works.

As always:

Your boat, your choice.  :D
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 19, 2021, 10:17:02 PM

Quote from: Stu Jackson on April 19, 2021, 06:17:22 PM


I am aware of Maine Sail's suggestion of using an automatic air vent for that purpose.  I have seen photos of it.  If I had a link, I'd include it.

The reason I don't have a link immediately at hand is because I am convinced one of those really neat fittings would simply NOT fit on the top of our engines with the steps right above it.  It might work on a C36 or a C30 but I really don't think it would on our boats.  Indeed, if it would so easily, I haven't heard of anyone installing one.

Why?  Maybe because it won't fit (if it did I'd bet a whole bunch of us would have done so, similar to routing the air breather hose to the engine intake).  But perhaps more importantly, is that Ron's method, pump or not, simply works.



Stu,

Are you referring to this?

https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5508.msg34381.html#msg34381

https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4518.msg38110.html#msg38110

https://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=ONE_PROCEDURE_TO_FLUSH_the_ENGINE_CLOSED_COOLANT_SYSTEM_-_from_RC%27s_(aka_Mainesail_aka_Rod_Collins_aka_Compass_Marine) (https://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=ONE_PROCEDURE_TO_FLUSH_the_ENGINE_CLOSED_COOLANT_SYSTEM_-_from_RC%27s_(aka_Mainesail_aka_Rod_Collins_aka_Compass_Marine))



If there's a tight fit could there be an elbow atop the housing (orient the cock horizontally)?

Recently someone said he was going to install it, but CRS whomever it was.
OMG it was Mike Brown in May 2017.  Time flies by.  I dunno whether he did go that route but I'll ask him.

I dint recall RC saying it's automatic, but it does make it a titch easier (clean up, recovering any blown off coolant.) Sorta like the fuel bleed knob rather than the bleed screw that tends to blow fuel/air down the engine.






Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: junaido on April 20, 2021, 12:01:42 AM
Stu,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree that there is no room under the companionway steps for anything but the petcock, but I was thinking of using mainesail's contraption as a temporary thing to be screwed in when bleeding air and then replaced with petcock. Does that sound feasible?

Junaid
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: KWKloeber on April 20, 2021, 08:22:16 AM
Mike Brown has NOT installed RC's super duper bleed valve system so no joy there.
Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: Stu Jackson on April 20, 2021, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: junaido on April 20, 2021, 12:01:42 AM
Stu,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree that there is no room under the companionway steps for anything but the petcock, but I was thinking of using mainesail's contraption as a temporary thing to be screwed in when bleeding air and then replaced with petcock. Does that sound feasible?

Junaid

You're very welcome.

That "contraption" is actually a very standard plumbing and mechanical fitting used in all closed systems to purge air.  They make manual as well as automatic ones.  As you can imagine, the automatic ones are used more often because the high points of building systems aren't always easily accessible. A manual one would work on an engine.

However, there seems to be another inconsistency at play here.  If your concern is still about the fitting that disintegrated on you (and which remains quite valid), it would seem to me that even thinking about taking off yet another fitting (the petcock) to temporarily replace it with another one (the vent) is counter-intuitive.

Why go to all that effort? 

All you have to do is remove one hose from a hose barb, fill it up (by gravity or a small hand pump), and replace it.

I forgot to mention in my last post:  I slather a bit of Lanocote inside the ends of all my hoses before I put them on hose barbs.  It makes it much easier to remove them when, not if, they have to be removed.  I've never had any problems backing that 3/8" hose off the thermostat.

If you still don't want to do that, then stick with just using the petcock.  My experience is that it takes a few revs while the engine is busy getting itself overheated, to purge the air out that way.  I thought about it and figured, why not just get the air out first?  And avoid any and all overheat...

Please continue to think this through.

Title: Re: thermostat - water heater connection
Post by: waughoo on April 20, 2021, 05:43:04 PM
[quote author=Stu Jackson
I forgot to mention in my last post:  I slather a bit of Lanocote inside the ends of all my hoses before I put them on hose barbs.  It makes it much easier to remove them when, not if, they have to be removed.  I've never had any problems backing that 3/8" hose off the thermostat.
[/quote]

I SO SERIOUSLY considered doing this when replacing all my hoses.  I was too impatient to slow down and go get the lanicote.  I kick myself now that I'm not in the engine bay wresteling the beast.  It is SUCH a good idea.  I did however change out my tstat housing bolts to allen socket head cap screws and slathered them and the tstat housing holes with tefgel .  So at least that shouldnt be a problem in the future.