I know most of us love our 34's but they are aging as we all are.
Sad to say came across one that is destined to be cut up :cry4`.
Thought I would share some photos before it meets its end.
Story is that it grounded hard and cracked the bilge floor, it has also has what appears to be keel bolt corrosion.
Jumped up on it to see how sad it was, nothing a good cleaning would not take care of.
Went below (sorry no pictures) and found the mast step rotted and the stringers rotted with cracks in the keel floor.
Both the mast step and the strings had the glass off them and just mush wood.
The plus side is the fellow that cuts them up uses the money as a fundraiser for the Sea Scouts.
Guess the moral is enjoy and maintain our boats.
Very Sad... :cry4`
Nothing a little Bondo wouldn't fix. LOL.
Very sad that no one had the wherewithal to bring it back to life.
😩😩😩
if it does get cut up, tell whomever is doing it, there are people here that would probably be interested in the parts. you should mention where the boat is.
I'm surprised no one could be found to take on a project like this. While fixing the keel and bilge area would certainly run into several thousand dollars it seems like the offset on the cost of the boat would cover that cost especially since it's going to be broken up. Unless there are more issues than just the keel area, the drive train being trashed for example, it seems like someone could wind up with a nice boat and maybe get a deal at the same time.
Does the guy salvage the useful parts (rigging, systems, etc.)? Seems like lots of value there. He could list stuff for sale on this site.
All the boats in the photo's have Ohio registrations.
The boat is on lake Erie. The marina allows him to cut the boats up for salvage to help fund the sea scouts. Do not believe he has the space or time to store parts for future sale. As I understand it the marina keeps the engine and transmission. I guess the point of my post originally was to highlight that the boats are not getting any younger and insurance companies are happy to scrap them for what used to be repairable.
Quote from: kh3412 on October 27, 2020, 02:11:30 PM
.............
.........................
.........................
I guess the point of my post originally was to highlight that the boats are not getting any younger...
Neither am I and there are folks who would gladly cut me up, too. :D I think my doctor is working on that now. :shock:
Hey, that's my old boat! And yes, it was a hard grounding. If familiar with the area, it was the old submerged break wall off Cedar Point that I hit. I owned it for 12 years. Took good care of it, in fact the teak still looks great, it was just done the year it was totaled. It was sold at salvage 2 years ago. My current boat is also in the yard there. I still periodically poke my head in there and make sure it isn't totally full of water. The surveyor felt the boat could be repaired, but the crack in the keel is almost straight though and the stringers in the stern area of the keel had slight cracking. It was a pretty sad day.
Seeing I bought another C34, should tell you I really liked it. I can also tell you the MKI fin keel vs MKII wing keel are like night and day. Both have thre +/-'s.
Guys : I agree with Jeff's surveyor that the boat is definitely repairable, but it does need a lot of work by someone that has the time and knows what they are doing!! Otherwise there are a bunch of good parts!!
A few thoughts
Jeff,
I'm curious what you mean by night and day with regards to the fin vs wing (the mk1 to mk2 is understandable). I have always sailed fin keel boats and the wing i just bought is quite foreign to me. Where i sail, the draft is less problematic, but i bet i will come to enjoy the flexibility.
Quote from: waughoo on October 28, 2020, 07:47:03 PM
Jeff,
I'm curious what you mean by night and day with regards to the fin vs wing (the mk1 to mk2 is understandable). I have always sailed fin keel boats and the wing i just bought is quite foreign to me. Where i sail, the draft is less problematic, but i bet i will come to enjoy the flexibility.
The general consensus is that pointing is affected by a few degrees. My "read" is that unless you're racing with a LOT of upwind legs against fin keels in a wing keeled boat, you won't notice the difference.
I had a 1989 MKI, fin keel, std rig with a 130 genny, now I have a 2001 MKII, wing keel, std rig with a 150 genny.
With the MKI you "feel the boat when you sail", it heels more, points better (30 degrees off apparent), does much better in breezes <10K, but has weather helm as you approach 12-15K unless you lay off the main a bit, anything over 15k you are reefing.
The MKII sails like a tank. It heals less, points at least 5+ degrees less(close to 35-40 degrees off apparent wind), in breezes <10k you don't even attempt to sail, but as wind approaches 15-18K under full sail you have little to no weather helm and sails well.
Other factors, MKI w/ 25xp vs the MKII w/m35b, on the Great Lakes when you get 15-20k on the nose with a 3-4' chop, the MKI would do about 3k, the MKII will maintain 5+K. We also sail in Sandusky Bay where the water depth maxes out at about 12-15', so the wing is the keel of choice.
I know others have different opinions, but that's my 2 cents.
Jeff,
Very interesting comparison of the two marks, I think this is the first time I've actually seen one. When I was racing I always felt we had a better advantage against the fleet in lighter air, at least that's where I usually got my best results.
Jeff,
Thanks for the clarification. I would have chosen a fin for my cruising area had the choice been available as we have plenty of depth, but bargin hunters cant be choosers. This one is set up with a 135 with a high cut foot. Despite sailing other C34s (all fin keel mk1s) i haven't sailed this one outside of a quick sail on sea trial day in VERY light air. I look forward to learning the new set up.
Very interesting discussion!
I've got a lot of time on a fin keel Catalina 30, wing keel Catalina 320, and wing keel Catalina 34 MKii.
Bottom line, I like Catalinas!
The fin keel 30 was a joy to sail, very stiff in a good wind. Working upwind that boat was very balanced and you could "feel" the rudder in slipstream and make very slight corrections for course or weather helm.
The wing keel 320 is a capable boat, but performance is middling, particularly upwind with the wing keel. Still a great weekender if you're not in a hurry.
I've now got a couple of years on the 34 MKii and I love it. Really a step up in performance from the 320 and an asym really comes in handy during the dog days of summer.
I'm trying tweak the pointing ability as much as possible (suggestions welcome). If I was racing I'd probably look for a fin but am sold on the wing keel for the Chesapeake since we're in and out of lots of tight places (Farleigh Cr is a good example).
Wingman,
One of the tricks I used when I was racing to improve pointing was a no cost rigging adjustment. You can ease the forestay, take up the slack with the backstay, next loosen the rear shrouds and tighten the fore shrouds. The idea is to put a rearward bow in the mast which should improve you're pointing ability. An adjustable backstay has a similar effect, but unless you're racing that can be an expensive option and requires alteration to your rigging.
Kevin : If you look in the Mainsheet Tech notes, you see my article on Making Your Own "Back Stay Adjuster". No alteration to my rigging was necessary.
It was NOT expensive at all!! (also helps keep the mast in column in heavy winds)
A thought
Ron,
I couldn't find your backstay adjuster article, but obviously if you make your own it's going to be cheaper that an aftermarket unit. Have you seen what they're getting for a hydraulic backstay adjuster or or even a manual wheel adjusted model?
Thanks for the backstay adjuster suggestion.
I found two articles by searching at https://c34.org/tech-notes-index/tech-notes-index-search.htm
I've only used a more typical hydraulic back stay adjuster that pulls straight down, but the "squeeze" adjuster looks interesting, less expensive, easy to install, but I have to ask, is it really kosher?
Was the split backstay meant to be pulled horizontally like that? Also curious if anyone has installed on MKii.
I would really like to squeeze (pun intended) out a little more upwind performance but I don't want to over stress anything.
Wingman,
The "squeeze" adjuster is a fairly common addition especially with beer can racers, it's fairly cheap and easy to do and can be removed when not racing. I've never heard of anybody complaining about adverse effects of this gear on the rigging.
scgunner, I haven't done much racing so that's good to know, thanks.
Guys : BACKSATAY ADJUSTER
I added a SS tang to one side of the lower backstay split chain plate anchors coming out of the transom. I made my own small pully block sheaves (so they were 1/2" to go up on to the swedges) they were attached together with a ring. Then there was a 3:1 system with a cam-cleat that attached to the tang at the bottom and the ring at the top. Pulling on the line would pull down the blocks squeezing the split stays together and tightening the back stay (clear as mud?)
I built that adjuster as one of the first improvements (early 1989?) Made it well before the elliptical rudder - because the original wing keel rudder did NOT have enough surface area to control the boat!!! In winds just at & slightly above 15kts the boat would uncontrollably head-up in to the wind!! The back stay adjuster would flatten the Main and allow you to be back in control! That was a real "attention getter"!! :shock:
A few thoughts
Wingman,
You'll have to decide what works best for you. If you're just looking to improve pointing adjusting the rig will do that, however you will lose something downwind. If you want to improve your all around Ron's idea is a good one and relatively economical as well. When I stopped racing I left the rig tuned as it was because I like pointing too and it seems like I do most of my sailing upwind.
If you really want to chase that demon there are other things you can do as well. For example anything you can do to flatten the sails will enable you to sail closer to the wind.
Excuse me for being off topic. Just want to pitch my go-to guide to sail and rig trim. May be a few sailors that don't know about this book. I reread every spring and don't loan it out.
https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?55534/Sail+Trim+Chart+and+Guide+Combo
Jim
No worries Jim, it looks like we already wandered off topic before you got here. Looks like a nice sailor's trim guide, I may have to add it to my collection.
Back on topic(at least for a while), it seems a damn shame to see one of our C34s wind up in the boneyard.
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on November 12, 2020, 08:49:48 AM
Excuse me for being off topic. Just want to pitch my go-to guide to sail and rig trim. May be a few sailors that don't know about this book. I reread every spring and don't loan it out.
https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?55534/Sail+Trim+Chart+and+Guide+Combo
Jim
I concur. I've read them all, ever since we bought our first boat in 1983. I have the two hardcover Sail Trim books and many others. This is BY FAR the most concise, easy to read and easy to use sail trim book I've ever read.
There is even a chapter on how to start to learn to race, hard to find anywhere else 'cuz nobody's gonna give their "secrets" away. :D :D :D
Re: Backstay adjuster.
I'm surprised the 34 didn't have a stock adjuster. My '84 C30 had one OEM — very similar to what Ron described with one key difference. The transom had a third tang (middle of the transom) for the cam cleat. That was a royal PITA due to it being in the way accessing the ladder (I added a snap hook to the bottom of the cleat so I could unhook, and hook the adjuster off to the rail) and it hitting the helmsperson in the butt and back.
CTY (or Garhauer) revised that to run the adjuster from one backstay tang, up to the squeeze blocks, and back down to the cam cleat installed on the opposite backstay tang. They simply added a shackle to the existing tangs to make the connections.
Many years ago I got new ball bearing adjuster blocks and whatnot from Garhauer.
If you want to add an adjuster Garhauer has the setup for that.
Ken
Ken,
I'm actually surprised your C30 came from the factory with a backstay adjuster. Catalinas have traditionally been a cruising class of boats that are well built and inexpensive, one of the ways they kept the cost down was by providing a minimum amount of sail trimming gear. Sail performance gear is one of those things which will rapidly and significantly raise the price of a boat.
Kevin
I used the wrong word. The adjuster on the 30 was "factory" instead of "stock (at least in '83-'84, for which I have order form info.) It was OEM but a $75 option, which covered additionally the tang (molded into not slapped onto the transom.)
Other sail handling like a vang were also options. I'm guessing that CTY changed the BSAdj arrangement so that it could be slapped on as a lower-cost option, rather than needing to build in the 3rd tang into the mold.
You're right, follow the money. 💰💵
Ken,
Performance hardware for sailboats can be as addictive as crack cocaine, and as expensive. I think Catalina did a really nice job of hitting that sweet spot between gear and price on their basic sailaway boat.
Guys : I gave all of my old price sheets to Stu (for posterity), but as I recall on the 1986 C34 the SAILS were an option!!
A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on November 16, 2020, 02:37:59 PM
Guys : I gave all of my old price sheets to Stu, but as I recall on the 1986 C34 the SAILS were an option!!
A thought
The price sheet for the early models from 1985 is in the tech wiki, first page under history and evolution.
Sails were not so much an "option" as one would think. The choices were between standard and tall rig and different sized genoas. And back then in the mid-80s, Catalina sails sucked, so it gave you the opportunity to buy sails locally, which, BTW, my PO did.
Later, Ullman began making reasonably good sails and Catalina standardized on selling boats with 135 genoas, making sails part of the standard equipment.
(//)I replaced the standard Catalina backstay adjuster earlier this year when I replaced all of my standing rigging. I now have a 32/1 cascade on the backstay that allows me to quickly obtain a very firm forestay when racing. I originally planned to have a 64/1 purchase but my rigger said that 32/1 would work really well and that it could easily be changed to 64/1 later if I thought I needed it by adding an additional single block.
The cascade is made up of three Harken single blocks using smaller and smaller dyneema line for each segment ending with a smaller 4/1 block and tackle. I also had him install a safety line within the cascade in case there was a failure in the cascade.
This system has worked really well and gives a tighter forestay than I was able to get from the original backstay adjuster.
Photos please.
I tried to attach a picture but it didn't attach. I'm not sure what I did wrong.
Did you get an error msg that the file was too large?
How many bytes is it?
Try again and note any notices/msgs.
As I recall Catalina offered a basic sailaway boat which included sails among other things, the purpose being to get you on the water for a reasonable price. The stock sails were not good but you could sail the boat fairly well. I remember on my original main there was a break in the sail where the battens ended, no amount of adjustment would rid the main of that break. It was hard to raise(and lower)because of the cheapo slide and car system, but it did get me out on the water and I did a lot of sailing with those rags until I got some real sails.
I didn't get an error message and my file size is 92 kb. I hit the Choose File button and chose the jpg file I wanted and its title showed up to the right of the Choose File button. When I hit Post the post was added to the tread but did not contain the jpg picture.
I am trying it again with this post.
I did something similar to Gary's but used a Garhauer adjuster, when I raised the split much higher, which avoids head banging. I just used a regular 4:1 vang also from Garhauer. I also added D shackles to the chainplates for the vang on one side and the line on the other.