More fun and games...
After having the family out last weekend and using the head, I went back to the boat on Weds and discovered about a gallon or more of black water in the bilge. Actually, it was more pink (antifreeze) than black since I didn't have a need to pump out yet this year (late start due to Covid). I could see the flow pattern on the hull bottom and it appears to be coming from the area of the pump out hose connection to the tank. I put some paper towels below it to see if that would confirm the location, and left it. When I returned yesterday, the paper towels were soaked, but not enough to trickle into the bilge. Cleaned it up placed some dry paper towels under it again and checked it periodically. There was no new leaking and I assume that was due to the level of the water in the tank. The connectors were all dry. I pumped some water into the tank and checked shortly after. The paper was a bit wet, but I couldn't feel any wetness around the hose where it is clamped on, or the connector joints.
So here are the questions;
It appears the connector to the tank is "welded" in place, not screwed in with plumbers putty, so it's not likely the source. Is that a fair assumption?
There is a right angled connector that screws into that tank connector, with putty. That seems dry. I taped a mini "diaper" around that and it was dry. Hose connection dry as well. Could there be a leak in the tank itself? What have others found to be the source of leaks?
I assume I can't replace that 90* elbow connector without removing the tank due to a lack of spin space, correct?
I'm thinking if I have to remove the tank, I might as well install a new one. Am I jumping the gun or being prudent? It's the original tank. Of course I'd do the hoses as well.
Assuming I do remove the tank, what's the best way to remove the tabbing on the aft end of the tank, Dremel?
Looking forward to your input.
Thanks,
Ed
Ed,
My holding tank developed a leak several years ago, a crack. I replaced everything. Just my opinion, this is one of those things that's not worth trying to fix. You may be able to fix it and you may not, but in the meantime you're dealing with some pretty awful stuff.
As I recall I had to cutout the small bulkhead to remove the old tank, then after the new tank went in I just glassed in a new bulkhead, it wasn't that involved. I don't remember what I used to cut it out but I'd say whatever works.
I tried to order a new tank from Catalina today, but their dimensions and tank volume were different, so I need to first get more accurate dimensions. CJ in Parts said the Mk1 holding tank is 30 gals. I thought it was 23, but a discussion post from 2006 had 27 gals as the consensus (including Ron).
The other difference was in the length. CJ said the 30 gal tank was 35". I measured 38"🤔
So I need to try and confirm all dimensions best I can before ordering. Maybe the PO, the original owner, had a bigger tank installed...
Got a chuckle from another 2006 post (Roland G) saying he paid $90 for the tank. Probably 4x that now, at least? I'll soon find out.
Those who have installed new tanks in their Mk1, what is your max length and vol? If you have the model # too that would be much appreciated!
Regards,
Ed
Try Ronco Plastics. They are OEM, off-the-shelf, and custom manufacturers.
https://ronco-plastics.com/
Ed : I got out an old fax from Catalina Parts it shows the MK I tanks. It lists the holding tank as 30 gallons part# 60170 stock# B179. It shows all of the dimensions.
Send me your text tel # and I'll take a picture and text it to you. ronphylhill@hotmail.com or 540-891-5297
A thought
It's confirmed, the tank is the Ronco B-179. 30 gals. I'll also embarrassingly admit I found it stamped on top of the tank! Didn't notice it until the light caught it just right. So the tanks on order. Pee bucket until then...
Regards,
Ed
Slightly off topic. The Admiral bought me this small plastic welder for Christmas. On Amazon called "Bondic". It is for small repairs. Haven't tried it yet so can't say if it works. Might be worth trying on a small water tank crack.
Ed,
That's funny because that's what I paid for my new tank, of course that was probably 15 years ago. My original was also a Ronco B-179 replaced with same. I found that there are some things that can be fixed and some things that should be replaced, I think the holding tank is one of those replace things.
Agree with you Kevin! New price, $400, with fittings (supposedly).
Regards,
Ed
Ed,
There are times when $400 seems a very small price to pay. One thing I do whenever faced with the unhappy task of opening up the head/holding system is to wear a respirator,aside from the horrific smell, the fumes in the enclosed space would give me a headache. With the respirator I don't smell anything. The good news, the access for this project is very good.
Ed,
I bought directly from Ronco the B179 tank for much less than $400 last April. Call them for a quote, they are very easy to work with. I picked it up at the factory in Orange County, Ca. I also requested different positions for fittings and elected to have input from toilet at top side center. I changed all sanitation hoses using Raritan SaniFlex as they are very easy to work with and install. While doing this I decided to add a Snake River tank monitor which so far provides decent accuracy.
Francois
S/V Whitecaps
Hull #1292
Francois,
Nice work, that's about as close as you can come to using the word "pretty" when talking about the holding tank. When I replaced my tank I also installed a tank level indicator, it's a nice upgrade.
This topic is currently near and dear to the Admiral's heart. OK, mine too. Looking at the photo of Francois' new holding tank install, I see the same set up for the tank vent I am currently convinced causes poor ventilation. From the top of the tank, the vent hose dips below the top to go below the fiberglass pan, then up to the vent, which I presume is the standard stanchion vent. When I took my vent hose off recently, after using a tank treatment to kill the smell, I found it had "water" in the hose, likely caused by the pressure the enzymes created, or by sailing for hours in up to 4' waves on the bay with a half full tank. Either way, the result from the dip in the vent line was bad, by keeping the vent from working.
I am charged with fixing this. I see pictures like these and I am stuck wondering what is going on in my system. It doesn't make sense to me. I have read the previously posted and 101 posts many times. I must have a mental block or something. How does dropping the vent line below the tank work?
Yes Francois, you definitely need to eliminate that low spot in the vent line. Whether water gets in there from the tank or from outside it will create a "trap" and prevent aerobic bacteria from preventing odors...
QuoteI see the same set up for the tank vent I am currently convinced causes poor ventilation.
Speaking of holding tanks and other good stuff. On another forum Peggy Hull recommended Noflex-digestor so I'm trying it this year. One claim is that it doesn't need as much ventilation. So far it's been working for me, a recommendation from the Head Mistress is worth a look.
https://marinesan.com/noflex-digestor/
Jim
Ted/WBev,
Good observation. Will fix this ASAP. I also wonder if the stanchion vent is effective. Anyone upgraded doing a hull through vent?
Francois
S/V Whitecaps
Quote from: Frasse Pelle on July 20, 2020, 09:27:14 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>
Anyone upgraded doing a hull through vent?
From the 101 Topics:
Head Odors 101.3 Flix of New Vent http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8185.msg57288.html#msg57288
Francois - Wobegon came from a PO who put a mushroom vent on deck, next to the pump out. I don't recommend it, but paired with the hull vent (Stu sent the link) it should work well. However, others report the stanchion vent with the added vent works well.
Bill
Francois,
Snake River tank monitor?? I thought they were out of business years ago. Any information on your purchase would be helpful.
Roc,
Snake River device is now sold by Tank Edge Manufacturing.
https://tankedge.com/products.html
I bought directly from their website. They have done a small improvement by adding an external voltage regulator. Got tech support so I could optimized the sensor position and finally I tested the device in the lab with the tank and it did perform well.
Got two extra sensing inputs, but not sure I'll ever install the sensors on the water tanks as these are difficult to reach.
Francois
I have my vent like Francois's but mine doesn't dip down and it runs up to a fitting in the hull just below the rub rail. When I bought the boat the vent stanchion had been leaking for years so I eliminated it.
I still get terrible odors if we let any waste stay in there more than a week so I don't think just getting the dip out of your vent line is going to help.
I thought I read in Peggy's book you wanted 2 vents to create a cross breeze so the anerobic odors couldn't form. I may have been mistaken.
When I replaced my tank a couple of years ago, I had 2 openings installed in the top. Bought a Ronco tank.
I couldn't find a place to route a 2nd vent so I added a fish tank bubbler with a 1/4" hose through a hole in the capped fitting on the 2nd vent. hole. Thinking if I was pumping air in, it would pressurize the tank and keep the anerobic odors out. Hasn't worked that way. I had dropped the 1/4" hose to the bottom of the tank. I'm wondering now if I'm bubbling up the odors from the water/waste. I might cut the hose short so it's only sticks into the tank 2-3" and fills the air space above the water/waste with fresh air.
One thing when you order the Ronco tank, any fitting you put in the top of the tank, put it towards the stern side of the tank. I have one of my vent holes almost in the center of the tank and it hits the wood panel covering the tank. Their seems to be more height towards the stern side of the tank.