I need to mark my hull for future sling placement before going back in the water this season. There are little arrows there currently, but I do not trust them. I do not know who put them there, and they are wrong (one side is 18" further forward than the other side, which does not make sense).
The travel lift has a crossbar that I need to avoid hitting, so I back the boat in and keep it as far forward as possible to avoid the backstay hitting the crossbar when the boat is lifted out of the water. For this reason I need to place the sling as far aft on the boat as possible, but obviously I have to be careful that the sling is sufficiently forward of the shaft, or I'll end up with a bent shaft and other damage.
My question is how far forward of the shaft does the sling need to be to ensure the sling doesn't damage the shaft? Do any of you have sling markers on your hull, and if so, where are they placed?
ba, go to the tech wiki and download the brochure of your boat, usually on page 4 of the brochure. That page includes a drawing of the profile of your boat. I use that and give a copy to the sling hoist crew. It's easy for them to line up with the portlights and stanchions.
Go here: https://c34.org/wikiwp/?rdp_we_resource=http%3A%2F%2Fc34.org%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DHistory
It's the main tech wiki page, first paragraph, click on "several models."
Here are some videos of my boat in slings. May work?
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0kwqvXxmBOJWk71PDP2afGFFQ#San_Diego
My marina put stickers on the hull years ago. Pretty much were Noah's boat gets hoisted. Stickers are just aft and forward of the keel.
Breaking : Your MKII Owners manual has 2 pages (not numbered) for the "Lifting Recommendations" One page for the fin keel and one page for the wing keel!! It appears to me that the reason for 2 pages for the different keels is that each page also has the shipping cradle diagram - which is different for each keel. However the lifting is the SAME!!
The front sling lift center is at the rear of the forward opening hatch and the rear sling lift center is at the rear of the aft fixed port light!
Regarding the rear crossbar of the travel lift, here is what I have always done (and posted) to keep the back stay from touching that crossbar. Take 2 dock lines and put one around each of the travel lifts front vertical bars. Then take that dock line into the primary winch and winch the boat forward while it's up in the sling. That will keep that back stay from hitting that crossbar. Simple as that!! :thumb:
In the lift drawings it appears the aft sling is about 3 or 4 ft forward (well infront) of the driveshaft!!
A few thoughts :clap
Guys : I put my sling markings on each side, just under the rub rail. That way the rub rail protects the markings from the sling!! You can put a strip of blue tap on the deck walkway so the lift operator can see where to position the straps!! :D
A thought
Breakin,
Page 61 of the MkII Manual shows the lifting points. http://c34.org/wiki/images/d/dc/C34-mkII-owners-manual.pdf (http://c34.org/wiki/images/d/dc/C34-mkII-owners-manual.pdf)
The aft sling always looks too far forward to my eye but I've lifted this way twice per year since I've owned the boat; usually with a crane instead of a travellift which means the boat is lifted slightly bow down. A travellift can hoist the boat dead level. If you look closely at the picture, you will see a small piece of tape that everyone at our marina puts on their lifelines showing someone unfamiliar with the boat where the slings go.
The second picture shows there is lots of room between the recommended sling location and the prop shaft.
Pretty boat.
Quote from: Ron Hill on May 01, 2020, 01:51:10 PM
Breaking : Your MKII Owners manual has 2 pages (not numbered) for the "Lifting Recommendations" One page for the fin keel and one page for the wing keel!! It appears to me that the reason for 2 pages for the different keels is that each page also has the shipping cradle diagram - which is different for each keel. However the lifting is the SAME!!
The front sling lift center is at the rear of the forward opening hatch and the rear sling lift center is at the rear of the aft fixed port light!
Regarding the rear crossbar of the travel lift, here is what I have always done (and posted) to keep the back stay from touching that crossbar. Take 2 dock lines and put one around each of the travel lifts front vertical bars. Then take that dock line into the primary winch and winch the boat forward while it's up in the sling. That will keep that back stay from hitting that crossbar. Simple as that!! :thumb:
In the lift drawings it appears the aft sling is about 3 or 4 ft forward (well infront) of the driveshaft!!
A few thoughts :clap
Thanks for the tips. A few comments:
My hard copy manual has no pages describing the cradle or lift points. I do have a downloaded PDF manual from 2002 (a year after my boat was made) that has one page describing lifting recommendations, so now I have a better idea of where they recommend relative to the stanchions. My lift stickers are in very different places from that (and different places on port and starboard :? ). They are under the rub rail, but that makes then almost impossible to see from the boat or the lift finger docks, since the lift tubes block their view. I've had to add my own stickers above the rub rail so they can be seen.
Your use of a dock line to pull the boat forward in the lift is very clever. I will keep that in mind, but the cranky lift operator in our DIY yard is very impatient and skeptical of anything that deviates from the norm. (Sailboats, by definition, already deviate from the norm more than he likes.) My biggest concern is locating these dock lines so that they stay fair (clear of lifelines, stanchions, etc.) as the boat is lifted about 12' from inside the well to a point high enough for the keel/rudder to clear the well. Do you have any tricks to keep them fair during such a high vertical lift (when I am off the boat, so can't adjust them)?
Quote from: Breakin Away on May 01, 2020, 12:10:36 PM
There are little arrows there currently, but I do not trust them. I do not know who put them there, and they are wrong (one side is 18" further forward than the other side, which does not make sense).
The travel lift has a crossbar that I need to avoid hitting.
[Edited]
Understand that lift points are not to-the-inch precision. What they do on any boat is "balance" two things -- the weight (center of gravity) vs. (ideally) lifting directly below an internal bulkhead. So you don't end up with a real splash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odZOo8yEhXM
What my former (i.e, Buffalo) yard manager did, was just before lifting, loosen the backstay and use the main halyard placed further forward (winches) to stabilize the mast until she was blocked.
I used to put painters tape on he gunnel temporarily. Last Spring I placed stickers under the rub rail that helped for commissioning. Not so much for decommissioning because they can't be easily seen from above by the travel lift operator.
I'm wondering if others have noticed, as I have over the past 4 seasons at three different yards, the operators are reluctant to put the straps where indicated. On one occasion I had to be somewhat insistent.
QuoteIf you look closely at the picture, you will see a small piece of tape that everyone at our marina puts on their lifelines showing someone unfamiliar with the boat where the slings go.
I do much the same thing. I put blue painters tape on the toe rail where the slings go for lift out. That way the travel lift operator can easily see them when the boat is in the lift well. A few inches off the factory recommendations won't harm anything, but moving the slings to accommodate the cradle makes lift out go much easier. If you are happy with the way the boat was in the cradle this winter and you are there when they lift (I highly recommend that). Take pictures of where the slings are placed and use that as a guide next lift out.
FWIW I remove my forestay from the steam head to fit our travel lift. Only takes a few minutes and not much work
Jim
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on May 02, 2020, 06:03:21 AM
I do much the same thing. I put blue painters tape on the toe rail where the slings go for lift out. That way the travel lift operator can easily see them when the boat is in the lift well. A few inches off the factory recommendations won't harm anything, but moving the slings to accommodate the cradle makes lift out go much easier. If you are happy with the way the boat was in the cradle this winter and you are there when they lift (I highly recommend that). Take pictures of where the slings are placed and use that as a guide next lift out.
FWIW I remove my forestay from the steam head to fit our travel lift. Only takes a few minutes and not much work
Jim
My boat is at a private DIY yard, so I call all the shots, within the limits of what the lift operator is willing to do. The boat is on stands, not a cradle. And with 8 stands that I own (lots of redundancy) I can actually move them if needed (and do so every year to paint under the pads).
The sling positioning is very tricky because of the crossbar interference. I've always backed the boat in because it fits that way (barely). But this fall it took us 3 tries to lift the boat because the volunteer spotters weren't following my instructions and kept putting the slings too far forward on the boat, leading to interference between the backstay and crossbar.
Clearly this could be fixed very well by adjusting the rig. If I detached one side of the split backstay, there's be PLENTY of slack creating the clearance. Or, if I could detach the forestay, I could pull in forward. On my prior boat (C250) I dropped the mast every year, and released forestay and loosened backstay many times. But things are harder to reach on this boat.
So a question: When you detach your forestay, how do you de-tension it to get it off? Can you run the spin halyard alongside it and get enough tension on it to de-tension the forestay for removal? Alternatively, is there some easy way to de-tension one side of the split backstay? (On the C250, I used to attach my vang tackle from the top of the split to the bottom to de-tension, and the backstay had a nice shackle that was easy to release with pliers. But the split is too high to reach on the C34.)
QuoteSo a question: When you detach your forestay, how do you de-tension it to get it off? Can you run the spin halyard alongside it and get enough tension on it to de-tension the forestay for removal? Alternatively, is there some easy way to de-tension one side of the split backstay?
With forward and aft lower shrouds you don't need to be too concerned with loosening/removing forestay. For lack of a better place I attach halyards to the station bases but don't put much tension, they really don't do much. I'm launching Thursday will take some pictures.
What did you and the yard do when the boat was lifted in the fall? It's easier to launch because everything is visible. Good to take pictures then.
Jim
I would think the main halyard would be used to take up the slack to detention the backstay.
Guys : I surely would NOT loosen the head stay - way too much work!! When you can easily loosen the back stay or do as I do and crank the hull forward when it is in the slings!!
A few thoughts
I'm with Ron on this one. The last time I had to pull my boat (my FORMER boat) the brand spankin new lift operator pulled the boat into the well bow first...when it came up it was obvious that the forestay had to come off or the furler extrusion would be rubbing against the crane's cross bar and I would have NONE of that. In the interest of time and simply because I didn't think of anything else at the time I removed the forestay so we could block the boat.
When it came time to launch in the spring I employed the rope trick that Ron mentioned above and there was no problem whatsoever. The boat would rock some but stopped well short of the cross bar simply because of the lines attached to the crane running back to the sheet winches.
I'm currently trying to get our "new" boat hauled for a short haul and the yard manager told me yesterday "drop it off and we'll pull it when we can".........That's not gonna happen!!!! Nobody takes care of my boat like me and I want to be on hand to tie her off if needed.
Does one have to worry about the location of thru hull instruments, paddle wheel etc?
How exact are these locations? Should I mark my lift location (my liability) or let the yard start and I am there (knowing the general location) to stop anything that doesn't look right (their liability)?
Kable : The lift recommendation in your owners manual from the factory are at positions where there is a bulkhead.
The yard should also "thump" the hull to find the bulkheads for placement of your jack-stands if you aren't using the shipping cradle.
Also I am there to watch where they place the fwd strap so as to not crush the knotlog wheel.
Another trick that I do every year is to make sure that I will be the first lift into the water. I have them make me the last lift of the day before. Then I can paint the underside of the wing and just hang in the straps overnight so the paint can dry.
Interesting that you pulled into the travel lift-slip bow first. After all these years I have always pulled in for a lift stern first!!
A few thoughts
QuoteGuys : I surely would NOT loosen the head stay - way too much work!! When you can easily loosen the back stay
For me it's easier to remove the head stay. Less than 10 minutes. I take a line, a couple of midshipmen hitches on the foil, down through a snach block at the stem head, to the windless (but have run it back to a winch), loosen back stay a few turns, draw the head stay down enough to pull pin, put the end of the head stay in a bucket and slide back to shrouds.
If I had an adjustable backstay I think it may be easier to loosen or remove backstay. When I tried removing backstay it was difficult for me to reattach the backstay with the forestay pulling the mast forward. Every case is a little different.
Jim