I ordered a new Lewmar 65 "Ocean" hatch. The old one does not currently leak, but the lense has been rebedded and the original roll stop hinges were beyond salvage.
I searched the forum for any issues that may come up when replacing but didn't see a lot describing the replacement process. Before I remove the old hatch and create a large-ish hole in my deck, I was wondering if anyone has done this and knows of any issues I need to prepare for.
Given the propensity of Lewmar lenses to craze, I'm also wondering if anyone has installed an Outland hatch cover on their 65 hatch? I contacted Outland and they have been very responsive and look to offer a great solution to the UV exposure. Quote is $70 + shipping.
It is astonishing to see the difference in crazing between the Bomar midship hatch and the Lewmar hatches/ports. After 30 years, the Bomar has almost no crazing.
Thanks in advance,
Patches
Just passing along what my Lewmar rep had said a couple months ago when I inquired about a replacement hatch.....
" Your customer probably has a factory Acrylic as they are an extreme pain to make them. The reason he has a question about Acrylic thickness is that the thickness is what I call a "pour depth" Acrylic shrinks when it cures so the thickness is never what it's called. To add to the confusion, European Acrylics are poured to a metric "pour depth" so U.S. Acrylics and European acrylics are never the same. In hatches it's no big deal. In portlights however, they are thickness critical. Go figure. Hatches are safe to walk on and I never think twice about it. I have never fallen thru a fully closed and dogged hatch. An open one yes, It hurts like hell. Never step on a hatch with a vent. It will gut you like a pig and you will die.
Lewmar is a barely functional company that went out of business. They were purchased by Lippert Components. They own Taylor Made Fenders. They moved the company to Gloversville, New York. Not a single shipment since mid December. I have thousands of orders placed and am just waiting for them to come back to life. Their computer tells me that they have 52 of the hatch your customer needs. When he can get it is anyones guess."
Patches : You didn't give your production year or hull #. I'll guess that your C34 is a 1988 thru 1991.
I wrote a Mainsheet tech Note article on replacing the lens in my 1988 Rollstop Vberth Hatch. I removed the hatch lens in its frame and sent it to Select Plastics. I also purchased (I believe from them) a Rollstop hatch repair kit. Select did a great job and then I installed the repair kit.
In my article I point out that the MAIN problem with the Roll Stop hatches is that the hatch MUST only be in one of the 4? hatch positions. In any other position the detents get worn and then eventually will not hold the weight of the hatch!!!
I also pointed out that I made a Gray Sunbrella cover for the hatch to keep the UV from crazing it. :thumb:
A few thoughts
Thanks guys.
The new hatch has been purchased; I ordered it last fall during one of the Defender sales. After investigating the hinges on the current hatch (1990 model), I knew I needed a replacement and the sale at Defender made the decision to purchase new easier.
I had no idea Lewmar was in that kind of business shape. Wow.
I was wondering more about the mechanics of replacing the hatch. Are there unexpected surprises lurking under the hatch frame? What are the preferred sealant choices? And any other hints.
Quote from: Patches on April 08, 2020, 06:26:29 AM
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I was wondering more about the mechanics of replacing the hatch. Are there unexpected surprises lurking under the hatch frame? What are the preferred sealant choices? And any other hints.
May 2013 Tech Note: https://c34.org/bomar-hatch-re-bedding/
Patches : When I replaced my salon Bomar hatch I used 3M4200 and had good luck.
On removing the old hatch I found that a heat gun was invaluable in loosing up the old caulk.
A few thoughts
How about butyl tape? Just a thought....
Quote from: Ted Pounds on April 10, 2020, 01:08:56 PM
How about butyl tape? Just a thought....
Actually, Ted, that is the right answer. 4200 or the 5200 CY used is just wrong.
FYI, Catalina factory used silicone caulk. Absolutely do NOT use 3M5200!!
I used 3M4200 as I found some voids in the plywood core when I removed the old hatch and frame!!
A thought
I replaced this on my Pearson 27-2, used butyl from MaineShip. Great result, and I supported a supporter. Roll the tape thick, (I didn't the first time) and know you will have a little difficulty overcoming the bond if you need to recenter. Three years and not a single drop. Have buried the bow on the Bay with my son, and no issues.
Bought my Lewmar on sale as well. The trim ring is garbage, very costly, but if you get it right, it can look better than it is.
On my C34 it will be another year before I get to it. Too many other issues and crazing doesn't mean leaking, yet.
Patches : Think about what you are going to use to fill any plywood void in case you have some when you remove that old frame!! :cry4`
I also used the 3M4200 to seal the hatch raw cut plywood edges!!
A thought
I pulled the old hatch yesterday, and it was a bit of a pain. Indeed, Catalina used silicone to bed the hatch frame. After removing the screws (holding the frame) and the 4 bolts (holding the lid), I found the hatch wouldn't budge despite some persuading from below with a hammer in the corners.
My solution was to use a hacksaw/dremel/oscillating cutting tool combination to cut out about 2" of the frame in one of the upper corners, I was able to do this without damaging the trim piece screwed into the rough cut. Once that small piece of the frame was removed, I used the claw from my hammer (with a scrap piece of 1/2" plywood underneath to protect the deck) to pry the frame off in a clockwise fashion.
That left all the residual silicone, which is important to totally remove. I carefully removed first with a chisel, then a thin razor blade, then by dabbing the residual with the "Re-mov" product and using the razor blade to keep taking up the softened silicone. Re-mov is the only product I've found that really works, but it is very pricy. It took 3 applications to get rid of all the silicone, and then a final wipe with acetone.
I'm definitely going with butyl for bedding the new hatch frame as it is my bedding compound of choice for deck work. But I'm thinking of though bolting the hatch frame rather than using screws again. The old screws (3/4" oval head) come out way too easy, although there was no sign of water intrusion in the core.
Anybody done this? or have an opinion about doing this?
Thanks,
Patches
Quote from: Patches on April 17, 2020, 06:13:42 AM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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But I'm thinking of though bolting the hatch frame rather than using screws again. The old screws (3/4" oval head) come out way too easy, although there was no sign of water intrusion in the core.
Anybody done this? or have an opinion about doing this?
I don't think it's necessary. When I did mine (in the link I provided earlier, and it was a Bomar hatch), the butyl tape was just fine and has been for as long as it's been rebedded, probably a decade now - 2012. Just not worth the effort, no ROI, none.
Patches: for more piece of mind instead of through-bolting, you could always "pot" the holes first; i.e. over-drill each hole, fill with thickened epoxy and re-drill screw's pilot holes.
Thanks for the responses.
Update: the mounting holes on the new Lewmar "Ocean" 65 hatch do NOT line up with the original Lewmar 65 "rollstop" hatch. Thankfully, it does drop into the opening just fine. I just spent the morning trying to get as much residual silicone out of the screw holes, then used a pipe cleaner dipped in acetone to clean them up, before filling them with epoxy paste. Once it all dries, I'll be sanding it all flush and be working with a new surface.
So, looks like Ive got to drill new holes anyway. The mounting instructions that came with the hatch recommend screws if the deck is wood, and through bolting or tapped bolts if the deck is FRP, steel or aluminum. I suspect screws are fine because mounting on a Catalina 34--like most production boats- is into wood-cored fiberglass.
Good input from Stu. I've always used butyl tape where I can compress the fitting to the deck with through bolting. Not sure which direction I'm going to go yet. I really appreciate the input.
Patches
Update (and final thoughts).
I just finished mounting the replacement Lewmar "Ocean" 65 hatch in my foredeck. I'm not sure that anyone else has done this on a C34 Mark I (mine is a 1990 Mark 1.25), so I thought I would share my final thoughts.
1. On my boat, the new hatch dropped into the opening. In the upper corners, however, there was not a lot of overlap of the hatch frame over the cutout (maybe 3/4"). This heavily influenced my decision to go with butyl tape as a sealant vs. 4200.
2. The holes on the new Ocean 65 hatch frame do not line up with the old holes. You will need to fill those holes and drill new holes using a 5/32 bit for 10-24 X 3/4" mounting screws. Also the holes for the the hinges do not line up with the old hinge holes. Those take 1/4" X 20 X 2" machine screws which are through-bolted to the v-berth ceiling.
3. Unlike the original "Rollstop" hatch, the new Ocean hatch lid does NOT detach from the frame. That is a problem when trying to drill and set the screws at the top of the frame. On my boat, there is a lip on the deck which prevents the hatch lid from rotating aft past about 90 degrees. That means you have to mark the frame holes on the hinge axis, then remove the hatch and frame, and then drill pilot holes for the 4 screws. (That required first undoing the the four screws holding the hatch lid adjusters from the the hatch lid.) Then you remount the frame, and use a long shaft phillips screwdriver to tighten those screws by opening the hatch lid the maximum 90 degrees.
4. When applying the butyl tape, I used two layers (doubled) and applied directly to the channel under the hatch frame. I cut these to length in between the mounting holes, and built up little "circles" where the fastener holes are located in the hatch frame. Unlike stanchion bases and deck hardware--where you can thread bolts through the deck fitting and then apply butyl around the bolts before pressing them into place--you can't do that with the foredeck hatch. There are 16 screws and 4 hinge bolts to seat and tighten. So that was my solution to ensure there would be a little butyl oozing up into the mounting holes in the frame before screwing in the fasteners.
5. As Ron said, be ready to address some voids in the rough hatch cutout in the deck. I had one in the upper starboard corner (under the trim piece) that I packed with marine tex and smoothed with a putty knife.
6. Once I installed all the fasteners, and tightened everything down, I reinstalled the hatch lid adjustment arms to the hatch lid (4 screws). The hatch sat well into the opening. However, I was unable to dog down the hatch levers into the completely "closed and sealed"--and ready for waves over the bow--position. I'll be contacting Lewmar about this; I hope someone answers the phone.
If I had to do it over again, I'm not sure I would replace with a new Lewmar Ocean 65 hatch. I would probably replace the hatch lens on the original hatch and use a stick to prop open the lid. I can't speak to the Bomar replacement. I might change my mind if I can get the hatch to close all the way. But the fact that you can't completely remove the hatch lid from the frame really complicated the installation.
Patches