Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: anaisdog on October 08, 2019, 12:29:14 PM

Title: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 08, 2019, 12:29:14 PM
from the PO, my 1986 hull 99 C34 has always had water in the bilge (and it gets gunky when I don't get the boat out).  I can't tell where it's coming in from.  i did blow up the aft water bladder so i know it's not that. could it be coming in from the farthest after lazerette in the cock pit?

thanks

becki kain
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Jon W on October 08, 2019, 12:53:12 PM
Could be several things. Some thoughts to start -

Dry out the bilge then check each day to see how long it takes for water to show up. If youíre in salt water, taste it to see if itís salt water. Salt water could be your packing gland, a thru hull/hose, or keel bolts. Keel bolts youíll see it seep in very quickly. Feel around all thru hulls and hoses, should be dry. The traditional style packing gland will drip a few drops of water per hour normally. That water eventually ends up in the bilge.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 08, 2019, 01:26:54 PM
dry it out with a turkey baster?  i'm in the water, detroit, so fresh water.  i think it might be my cockpit scupper hoses cracked but i'll have to look at that's just icky :-)
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Ron Hill on October 08, 2019, 02:19:22 PM
anais : You didn't mention if you have a keel stepped or deck stepped mast?  It could be coming down if the mast it your is keel stepped.
 
Also most likely is the packing gland.

A few thoughts

Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Jon W on October 08, 2019, 05:17:56 PM
Some use a pump, I use a sponge and a bucket to dry the bilge. Wear rubber gloves if itís really bad.

To check the cockpit drains, fill a bucket with water, climb into the aft cockpit locker, reach and pour the water into the cockpit and look for leaks. Then repeat for the other side.

Should still check the other bits. If you have a keel stepped mast, water will get in the bilge when it rains.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: mark_53 on October 08, 2019, 05:28:06 PM
Probably comes down the mast when it rains.  I use a wet/dry shop vac to get it out. Smells horrible it I leave it too long.  Dry it out and check next time you get a good rain.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Kevin Henderson on October 08, 2019, 05:50:52 PM
I've used this rule of thumb:
Forward bilge could be fresh water dripping down mast (keel stepped mast)
Center (Large bilge)  Taste the water... if it's fresh, it could be from your water tank.  Or from the mast. 
In the aft bilges if its fresh, it could be the hot water tank.  If it's salt, water could be leaking in from aft either the packing gland or possibly the rudder post. 

I think there has been a similar post as this that defines the bilges and sources of water better than my atempt here.   :abd:
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Rortega46 on October 08, 2019, 07:05:04 PM
My bilge was wet for 4 years since buying our C34.  During the August dry spell I got serious about having a dry bilge.  I began drying the bilge daily and watching where the water initially showed up in the bilge. As Kevin says, there is a good prior post about this.  The August dry spell helped rule out above the waterline leaks, and drying the bilge daily led to a sequence of fixes.

First, I adjusted the bellows on the dripless seal and insured the area was dry with the engine running and at rest.  Next, I replaced one of the AC condensate removal pumps and cleaned/serviced the other. Water continued to enter the bilge from under the waste basket area, but when the valves from the fore and aft water tanks were closed and the water heater drained, no water entered the bilge.  So I replaced the old, rusted and leaking hot water heater.  When the valves and water pressure was turned on again, water was still entering the bilge under the waste basket.  Found the fresh water pump seal to be bad and replaced the pump.  The bilge has now been dry for over a month.  Success!

It was a long process that ended up leading to a dry bilge by addressing deferred plumbing systems maintenance.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: KWKloeber on October 08, 2019, 08:37:47 PM
becki if the scupper hoses are original they are overdue.  Mine lasted 20 yrs before they failed and made an absolute mess while on the hard for two years.  Run a hose in the cockpit while checking below for water flow to the bilge.

-k
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Jim Hardesty on October 09, 2019, 05:10:51 AM
Quote
dry it out with a turkey baster?

Becki,
To remove the water that remains after the bilge pump runs.  Use the turkey baster to suck-up the bilge water then squirt into a bucket.  I use a battery water filler, bought from auto parts store, and a plastic coffee can.  Then just dump bilge water into head sink.  Store them in the bilge. 
It's important to keep the bilge dry during the freezing winters.  If the bilge is full of water and freezes it may expand and damage the hull.
Hope you get that dry bilge,
Jim
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 09, 2019, 06:33:44 AM
it's a deck stepped mast and i have a bilge plug so i drain it when it's up in the air in the cradle.  i will try to drain it but Ken's right, the hoses are probably original.  where do i get replacements?  are they just automotive?  thanks
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Jon W on October 09, 2019, 07:32:01 AM
I bought smooth bore bilge hose at a local boat supply.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 09, 2019, 07:33:24 AM
thanks
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 10, 2019, 06:00:10 AM
once i drain the bilge, how many keel bolts should i expect to find to tighten?
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: ewengstrom on October 10, 2019, 06:14:25 AM
We just bought Ohana, our 1988 C34 and I'm quite sure that no hoses have been replaced in approximately 31 years...including the cockpit scupper drain hoses. While inspecting the boat I reached in and felt around the starboard hose and found I could put my finger thru a hole in the forward side of the starboard drain hose just below the scupper itself. Upon closer inspection I found the hose dry rotted along its entire length. No hole in the port side but it's dry rotted too.
Moral to this story, if you haven't replaced all the hoses on your boat or suspect they haven't been updated, it's long past due and I for one am replacing every hose on the boat...STAT.

With regards to locating a persistent and hard to find leak. Paper towels distributed in key areas don't lie. You can tell if they've even had one drip on them....even if they dried up after the leak stopped. Water running thru an area can also be identified and traced back to its source. I've pinpointed odd leaks using this method on various boats over the years, works pretty well. 
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 10, 2019, 06:17:50 AM
did you have to get the hoses from a marine store or automotive?
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 10, 2019, 10:13:04 AM
Ken, what are those hoses for that are running into the bilge?  and how many keel bolts should i expect when i drain it?  i'll be back to my boat and take pictures next tuesday.  thanks
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Ron Hill on October 10, 2019, 01:30:47 PM
Anais : Those "other hoses" that run into the bilge are 1. the emergency manual bilge pump hose 2. the electric bilge pump hose.

The scupper hose is the same size as the exhaust hose (which you probably?) need to change!!

A few thoughts   :shock:
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 10, 2019, 01:34:35 PM
i know they are verigated plastic hoses but i'm not certain where it starts but ends in the bilge.  i'll take pictures when i'm there next week. 
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 10, 2019, 01:38:10 PM
and I didn't see the hose(s) listed in the manual.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: KWKloeber on October 11, 2019, 07:56:02 AM
Ken, what are those hoses for that are running into the bilge?  and how many keel bolts should i expect when i drain it?  i'll be back to my boat and take pictures next tuesday.  thanks

becki
Sorry bout late reply, I am not getting all posts emailed to me. I canít seem to fix that.

I used the wire wound exhaust hose but on the 30 the angle of and short distance between the fittings makes it A BEAR OF A PITA to get on new hoses. Itís not a job for the faint of heart and some have used non-wire, and the corrugated hose for easier bends to work it onto the fittings. Another (pic below) just removed the cockpit fitting to get the hose on and then back together. I donít know how bad the job is on the 34, but thatís 3 hose options you have if itís as tight as ours are.  You can also use silicone exh hose.  Itís easier if you grind the barbs off the fittings, warm the hose, lube it, etc. Again I donít know how difficult they are/the job is on the 34 MK-1.

Pics of your bilge will help ID any hoses.

I have 7 keel bolts, see pic (not my boat) I dunno bout the 34.




Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 11, 2019, 08:01:29 AM
thanks Ken, i'll take pictures next tuesday when i'm home and after I've dried the bilge so you can see what they are for.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Ron Hill on October 12, 2019, 01:36:51 PM
Becki : FYI, the factory used Exhaust hose for the scuppers in the 1988 production. 
I'll guess that's probably their standard for early C34 production?

A thought
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 12, 2019, 01:40:10 PM
i'll take pictures and post.  thanks!
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Jon W on October 13, 2019, 09:44:34 PM
I remembered this post while at my 1987 MK 1 today. I counted 9 keel bolts. If you have the OEM setup, there will be two hoses. A 1 1/2Ē white corrugated hose that goes to the manual bilge pump in the aft cockpit locker then to a thru hull in the transom, and a 1 1/8Ē hose from the electric bilge pump also to a thru hull in the transom.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Geoffreykwright on October 16, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
If you still have not identified the source of the leak, one thing I have done in the past is put a line of paper towel around the top rim of the bilge - eventually it will become damp in one place - at least it points you in the direction of the leak...and if it does not get damp then its coming from somewhere lower in the boat (i.e. keel boats, thru hull etc).  Its helped me locate leaks in my fresh water system.  Hope it helps.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: KWKloeber on October 17, 2019, 09:02:16 PM

a line of paper towel


becki, as well, another trick is to sprinkle baby powder on the hull in suspect locations or draw lines using sidewalk chalk (as a telltale as to where unwanted water flows across locations.)
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Stu Jackson on October 17, 2019, 10:39:56 PM

a line of paper towel


becki, as well, another trick is to sprinkle baby powder on the hull in suspect locations or draw lines using sidewalk chalk (as a telltale as to where unwanted water flows across locations.)

Smells nicer, but harder to clean up.   :D :D :D
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 20, 2019, 07:06:42 AM
picture one
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 20, 2019, 07:29:52 AM
picture 2.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: KWKloeber on October 20, 2019, 09:21:08 AM
becki they aren't displaying on the website and when I download/view them I get a "damaged file" error.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: KWKloeber on October 20, 2019, 11:11:18 AM
Becki
The black hose (w/a check valve on it) is for your bilge pump discharge and the used-to-be white hose is for the emergency bilge pump (as Ron had described.)
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 21, 2019, 11:16:19 AM
hmm, they were too big to upload and then when i used apple->previewer, they were renamed as .heic so i thought i could just rename them.  i'll try gimp. thanks for telling me.

btw, i drained the bilge last tuesday with a turkey baster and checked back on saturday.  there was no new water, or not significant enough to notice so i don't think it's the keel bolts, but i'll tighten them anyway when she's out, and it can't be the water tank since it's empty.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: anaisdog on October 21, 2019, 01:05:07 PM
is water in the bilge bad, seeing what is in there?  or no?  i seem to get different answers like everything else with boat ownership. and thanks
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Jim Hardesty on October 21, 2019, 02:43:30 PM
Quote
is water in the bilge bad, seeing what is in there?  or no?  i seem to get different answers like everything else with boat ownership.

A little bilge water isn't bad, but it should be clean water.   I do think it's important to know where the water is coming from and to monitor it.  Any unexpected water needs to be tracked down.  My bilge is generally dry, I get a coffee can of clean bilge water every other week.
That's good for me.  Others may be happy with more or less.
Jim
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Jon W on October 21, 2019, 02:59:19 PM
Most times you get different answers is because the question is either to general or because people have different levels of risk they are willing to take. I try to keep mine dry.

ďis water in the bilge OK?Ē is pretty general. Standing water is not a good idea at home or on a boat. Bugs grow in it, it facilitates corrosion, and in the case of salt water it will stink. If you know where the water is coming from, and itís normal (like the packing gland), then it isnít a problem except for being standing water. Iím sure thereís other opinions out there.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: KWKloeber on October 21, 2019, 03:45:23 PM
HEIC is appleís proprietary space-saving image file format, which is compatible with nothing in the real world. Itís best to turn OFF that option in your settings. The space saved isnít worth the complications, and I donít believe the forum recognizes it.

Thereís a few free image resizing apps that work well if you need to reduce size.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: britinusa on October 29, 2019, 08:59:08 AM
We found that some rain water was coming down the inside of the mast and the most like cause was a line entry/exit plate about 6' down from the top of the mast.

We don't use that line (not sure what it's for) so I covered the plate with a piece of Flex tape.

The pic shows the type of plate. On our mast, the plate is inverted so that it's opening faces upwards (ie. rain catcher)

Paul

Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: KWKloeber on October 29, 2019, 09:47:31 AM
Whereabouts on the mast?  Side of leading edge?
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: britinusa on October 29, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
On the front of the mast!
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: KWKloeber on October 29, 2019, 12:53:36 PM
Pole lift with the exit installed upside down?  Nah too high for that.
Internal spin halyard exit?
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: fatamorgana on October 29, 2019, 02:52:42 PM
We found that some rain water was coming down the inside of the mast and the most like cause was a line entry/exit plate about 6' down from the top of the mast.

We don't use that line (not sure what it's for) so I covered the plate with a piece of Flex tape.

The pic shows the type of plate. On our mast, the plate is inverted so that it's opening faces upwards (ie. rain catcher)

Paul

Funny, we have the same thing on our mast, and thought it was something the PO did.  I couldn't figure out why it was there.
Title: Re: water in bilge
Post by: Ted Pounds on October 29, 2019, 07:29:50 PM
Itís for a spinnaker halyard...