Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: Stu Jackson on May 07, 2019, 09:17:18 PM

Title: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 07, 2019, 09:17:18 PM
This is from George who we are in the process of signing up to the forum.  Due to a glitch which could be software or at my end between my ears (!  :shock:), I offered to post his questions for him until he gets "in."  He can, of ccourse, read the forum, just can't post.

Here's his note to me:

Thank you Stu Jackson. Here us what I have, I. Looking at a 1987 Catalina 34, it looks to be in exallent condition. Even though I'm not a sailor yet I have been a heavy equipment repair contractor for 30 years. Still there is nothing better then asking experts.
  Our kids are grown and my budget for a boat is 40,000.00. This Catilina I think they will accept 32,000, of course i will get a survey. Here is my biggest question: on my budget and being 6'4" and doing 80% coastal cruising and some local islands 150 miles from shore and maybe some cruising down to Mexico is this a good boat for us. Again the boat looks excellent in every way, it comes with an inflatable in good condition with a 3 hp motor but the boat has original instruments, no GPS and no radar. My experience is 16 foot sailboat rentals quite often when young and a collage summer sailing class 10 years ago on an island packet. I love the looks the interior looks amazing but I must admit my budget is keeping out of a blue water boat accept for real fixer uppers. One day I would love to cross an ocean. I feel like a little boy with a pipe dream. Thank you Stu.
  George from southern California.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: NewToTheRoad on May 08, 2019, 05:46:41 AM
Hi George,
   Welcome to the forum.  You have come to the right place for answers.  The members here are amazing and a wealth of knowledge. 

   I bought my 34 2 years ago with very little experience, just a few ASA classes and sailing on a friends boat.  I find it to be very sturdy and forgiving and easy to sail.  I am typically in 20+ knots and she is very comfortable.  I am on the east coast and would have no issues sailing her to the Bahamas.  I know that people have sailed farther as long as you pick your weather windows. I too love the layout and the front v berth is very large.

  My boat came very sparse - no GPS\radar, no refrigeration, etc.  With the support of this site and members I have been able to make upgrades as necessity, time, and budget permits.  I know that it's all relative but I find that if has a good survey, and you do most of the work yourself, it's not too expensive to maintain.  There are people in my marina with bluewater boats that spend 10x what I do on a yearly basis.  I do my navigation with a $200 tablet and Navionics app.  I think the map is like $50 per year.  Navionics is awesome.

  I have no regrets purchasing the 34.  In fact this year I am renaming her to "No Regrets"..

  BTW there is a guy who posted a video recently from the Sea of Cortez.  I think he has been up and down the west coast on his 34 with little sailing experience.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPOafx4GcY8

Bryan
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: mark_53 on May 08, 2019, 09:28:23 AM
At 6'4" you be ducking your head in all places except maybe a small area under the hatch.  You will not be able to fully stand in the head shower.  The V-berth is very roomy but at 6'4" you not be able to fully stretch out. It's a great little boat suited well for coastal cruising.  If you can take a 3 or 4 inches off you height, I think you will like a C34.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: glennd3 on May 08, 2019, 03:01:08 PM
At 6'4" you be ducking your head in all places except maybe a small area under the hatch.  You will not be able to fully stand in the head shower.  The V-berth is very roomy but at 6'4" you not be able to fully stretch out. It's a great little boat suited well for coastal cruising.  If you can take a 3 or 4 inches off you height, I think you will like a C34.
You will shrink eventually as you get older.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Wayne on May 08, 2019, 04:39:43 PM
I too am a tall guy (6' 3 1/2").  I fit ok in the v berth (fortunately my wife is on the short side so my feet get all of the head of the v).  I can stand upright only under the hatch in the salon and under the companionway hatch, so that is where I hang out when standing.  Most of the spaces are a little petite for me to fit into comfortably--I'm kind of all arms and legs.  Despite all that, it is a great boat.  I like it enough that I completely gutted the head back to hull and bulkheads and rebuilt, pushing the shower seat further back into its corner, pushing the toilet outboard, and rotating the sink counterclockwise.  Oh yes, I lowered the floor about 1 1/2" too.  Still wish the spaces were bigger, but at boat shows, etc. I haven't seen another boat that even remotely inspires me to pull out my checkbook (I really don't want to go to a much bigger boat).  Systems are simple and easy to troubleshoot and repair.  Sails great.  Looks great.  Handles lots of wind really well.  For light air needs an A-sym to move well.  The 34 really has a lot going for it!
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 08, 2019, 04:57:47 PM
Thank you for your replies all. Bryan thanks for the reply and link. Glen, your right I am shrinking, last weekend on the boat walk through I noticed it was only my hair dragging against the center of the salon roof Lol. I'm now 6'3" and dropping.
  Just seen Wayne's  post: you inspired me with your energy and get it done spirit. It says a lot about the great qualities of a boat when an owner is willing to remodel the area that bothers him. I think I will take one more walk through this weekend and then make my offer.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: jmcdonald on May 08, 2019, 05:25:37 PM
Wayne, is there a chance you could post pictures of your head remodel.
Maybe on a new thread so this thread isn’t high jacked.
Thanks
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 09, 2019, 09:29:13 PM
I hope to get some thoughts on a boat this newbie is looking at. Its condition appears excellent outside the fact that the sails and rigging are original, the advertisement reads:
 
1987 Catalina 34

It has been loved, enjoyed and meticulously maintained by her current Captain at the helm and he has been the owner of this vessel since 1989 when she was purchased as a likely new yachts.

Perhaps Catalina's most popular model, the Catalina 34 is one of the most successful sailing 34 footers on the market.   She is a slooped rigged , fin keel, spade rudder and keel stepped mast.  The Catalina 34 is a very forgiving boat that offers the newer or seasoned sailor with responsive performance and comfort at the same time.   Stability in the stiff winds and performance in the light winds, spacious interior.
THIS Catalina 34 is a great value!
  Cabins 2 Double Berths 2 Heads1
Max Passengers 8 Seating Capacity 8 Fuel Tanks1 x 25 gal (Aluminum)Fresh Water Tanks1 x 77 gal (Plastic)Holding Tanks1 x 25 gal (Plastic)

 Accommodations

It has the standard Catalina 34 layout with a large V-berth with ample storage.  A large U shape dinette lies mid ship and starboard.   Adjacent to port is a long bench seating with the Nav Station most aft.  Full head is to port of companionway with shower seat, vanity and sink and electric head.  A full galley to starboard with access to the aft stateroom, with a double athwartship berth.

Warm and rich teak interiorTeak and Holly sole Navy Blue upholstery

Galley

Full "L" shaped galley to starboard of the companionway.  With ample storage space and counter working area.

Hot / Cold pressure waterDeep double stainless steel sinkGSI ..Gimbaled Propane 2 burner stove and oven12V Refrigeration ( needs service)Seaward water heater S600

Electronics and Electrical

Aft facing Nav Station sits port of companionway.  Ample storage in desk along with space for additional electronics.  110V/12V panel at finger tips.

(2017) batteries (2) 4D, (1) 6V30 amp shore power with 50' cord Depth/Speed gauge Auto helm ST 4000 wheel Autopilot Standard Horizon Eclipse DSC Ritchie compass

Sails and Rigging

The Catalina 34 is a single spread, masthead slooped rig with most lines leading aft to cockpit .  Shrouds run close to the cabin to give ample walking space fore and aft.  Bow and stern pulpits , drop down stern boarding ladder and double high life lines with port and starboard boarding gates.

(4) Spinlocks(2) #30 Lewmar ST winches for halyard / traveler/ reef(2) #46 Lewmar ST Primaries Harken furler jib system Catalina Main Sail Catalina furling 150% jib with new UV cover 2017
It was hauled out 2017 for new bottom paint

Engines

Universal 3 cyl   FWC   M25KP /  23 hp Estimated engine hrs of 1225 total 3 Blade fixed prop(2015) New Heat Exchanger / Raw Water Pump / Fuel Tank - 25 gal(2015) New PYI Dripless Packing Gland added(2015) Raw Water Pump(2017) Engine service

Additional Information

8' Avon Inflatable with 3 HP Yamaha outboard 4S New Salt water head New head sail UV cover.
  I think I can pickup this boat for the low 30s, what do you guys, possibly gals think?

PS I'm posting from my cell phone no easy task, my computers down. Yet time is of the essence I'm going on a second walk through Saturday.

  George

Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: NewToTheRoad on May 10, 2019, 05:53:48 AM
In the Northeast I have seen some 34's of the same age, and in the low 30's, sit around for a bit, unsold.  It's very subjective though, depending upon condition, maintenance, local market, seasonality, and how badly you want it.  Sounds like you may have already fallen in love.  Be careful.

You mention that the refrigeration needs attention and the sails and standing rigging are original.  I would wager that maybe the mast has never been down either so all wiring\lighting are original.  My '88 boat also came with original sails and rigging.  I just bought a new main and genoa (National Sails), unstepped the mast, and replaced all of my standing rigging.  At the same time I rewired the mast and replaced the light fixtures (steaming\deck, anchor w LED).  All in I'm about $6K and that's buying online and doing the work myself.  If it were me I would use that expected expenditure for negotiating leverage, putting you in mid\upper 20's for an offer, subjective to a satisfactory survey.  That's what I did.  The PO knew that the sails and rigging were done, so accepted without a counter.  Timing might have been right for me though because it was end of season.  Cardinal rule #1 - it never hurts to ask.  Cardinal rule #2 - if you don't ask you don't get.   

btw - mine came with a useless dingy and a 4hp outboard.  I bought a used hypalon dinghy from a guy at my marina for $100.  I used it for 2 seasons so far..

Bryan
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 10, 2019, 07:17:19 AM
 
  Bryan, once again thanks for your valued input, I really like your following advice, also your right it's easy for a newbie  to fall prey to pixie dust in his eyes.
  "Cardinal rule #1 - it never hurts to ask.  Cardinal rule #2 - if you don't ask you don't get."

  As I move toward a possible offer I will keep in mind the cost you laid out for sails and rigging that is needed for that boat. Even though the boat looks new inside your right to point out all the hidden cost to a new sailor.   
  Thank you.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: scgunner on May 10, 2019, 08:25:43 AM
     George,

        Good advice from Bryan, it sounds like he did it just about right. Best advice, fall in love with the model, don't fall in love with the boat, unless you've already looked at 3 or 4 C34s and this one is the best of the bunch. Remember boats are like women, if you miss this one there'll be another one along in 20 minutes.

        The better deal you get the more money you'll have to spend on the boat, an unrestored 30+ year old boat is going to need a lot of stuff. As an example, "Refrigeration(needs service)", that's a 32yo refer, the service it needs is probably replacement. I've had my '87 since 1988 and the refer worked great until last year when one of the refrigerant lines finally corroded through. At this point a fix wasn't practical, so I replaced it. If you decide to replace you're looking at about $1500 if you do it yourself. One more thing, since you live in the Peoples Republic of California(like me)you can't buy a refer unit here, it's illegal. You can do what I did though, order one from West Marine in Nevada and drive out and pick it up, a 500mi round trip. Welcome to the wonderful world of boating, enjoy!
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: NewToTheRoad on May 10, 2019, 08:47:44 AM
George,

  Happy to help.  There are many gurus on this board that have helped me immensely.  Having the support of an active owner's group was a key factor in why I purchased an older Catalina.

  One thing that my surveyor missed was something prone to our boats.  Your water storage tanks (starboard side) and black water tank (port side) have a small vent tube that runs up the side of the hull, behind some wood trim and then up into the stanchion on deck.  Part way up the stanchion is a vent hole.  Over time, from flexing the stanchion and from age, the sealant fails and water can collect there on deck and then seep downward.  You'd be surprised how much water can get in from a little crack.  On my boat it ruined the back corner of the counter, near the icebox lid.  Visually, the formica countertop looks fine, but if you press on it in the corner it flexes badly so the underlayment is toast.  It will definitely need replacing.  I suggest you check this area during the survey and at least look for water staining on the wood.  There are little sliding cabinets about 5 feet up, on both sides of the hull, where you can open and actually see a piece of the vent hose coming up to the stanchion.  If you see the vent hose then you know you are at the right place.  On the starboard side it's above the icebox.  Look for stains and press on the counter.

Fixing the leak itself is fairly easy and requires rebedding the stanchion with butyl tape or an appropriate sealant.  Hopefully your owner wasn't as negligent as mine.

Regarding the refrigerator.  Mine doesn't have one.  I have the barebones icebox (i.e. cooler) version.  We don't do any long term cruising so block ice woks great and easily lasts a weekend.  However I have looked into adding refrigeration.  I think it costs too much.  My plan would be not to go with a proprietary marine refrigerator unit.  I would wire up a 12v socket and buy a 12V refrigerator\freezer from Amazon.  It would be half the cost.  It's portable.  You wouldn't need a specialist to service it.  If it breaks then get a new one shipped to you in 2 days.  I would put it under the chart table or under the dining table.  Just a thought.  I would still negotiate the cost of a new refrigeration unit into my offer though ;)

Bryan
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 10, 2019, 09:41:44 AM

  Kevin and Bryan

  Once again thanks, I have study boating and boats extensively for the last 6 months while recovering from reconstructive foot surgery, nothing compares to the advice from people who have been on the journey and been through the gauntlet of trial and error. re fridgeration a possible $1500 expense, sails and rigging $6000.00, I'm already up to $7500.00 without even coming upon the small things. It looks like I need to think a minimum of $10,000.00 dollars for basic upgrades for this boat. Sure I know with instrumentation even more maybe $15,000.00 or more. One can see how indispensable a good survey is. I will keep all this good advice with me as I approach a possible offer in the next few days. At age 58 I wanted my first boat to be maybe my last being I do not have a lot of opportunity to have $30,000 or more dollars laying around. This is my one opportunity so I have to get it right. Thank you guys for being part of minimizing my risk in the risky business of buying a boat, especially my first sailboat outside of a dingy.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: scgunner on May 10, 2019, 11:13:50 AM
     George,

        You're probably about right at $10,000 but the good news you can spread that out over a number of years. Some things will need to be done right away and some you can hold off on for awhile. After you've lived with the boat for a while you'll get a much better idea what you need and don't need. As an example, if the sails are original they're almost certainly blown out but you can still sail the boat with them and have fun, you're not going to win any races with them though. You may decide after awhile that you don't really need a refer which will save you some money or you may decide you can't live without one and that it's worth the expense.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: glennd3 on May 10, 2019, 11:29:11 AM
I like the fact that it only had one owner, I think that is a huge plus on an older boat. It only take one PO to mess one up.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 10, 2019, 11:37:57 AM
  I don't think I will be winning any races for 10 years Lol.
 Outside of some small boat rentals and a summer collage sailing course I have very little experience. One thing I may have going for me is I was an industrial electrical contractor for 30 years till a motor fell on my foot. I fell with good research and the help from good people I could navigate many necessary repairs. I think I will mostly take things slow adding money to the bank account as I gain knowledge. Yes do my training with the old sails and rigging in local waters close to shore.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Noah on May 10, 2019, 12:13:07 PM
Read/study the “Critical Upgrades” section on our website, then check with the surveyor and seller that these tasks have been completed. These items include, but are not limited to: alternator bracket, traveler bolts, and engine wiring harness plugs. Also, on pre-89 boats, there is wood in the keel stub joint and some have had issues with water intrusion/rot there and in the mast step. Have your surveyor check those areas for cracks and signs of water weeping/softness. Hope all checks out well.  8)
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: sailr4 on May 10, 2019, 01:03:52 PM
I like the fact that it only had one owner, I think that is a huge plus on an older boat. It only take one PO to mess one up.

I think I had that PO.  :cry4`

Rob
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 10, 2019, 02:46:24 PM
  Thanks Noah, I will keep all your great information with me for the day of survey and again reference this site for as much information as I can. My birthday was just around the corner so my girlfriend bought me Nigel's book mechanical and electrical for boats and also his sailboat book. We thought it would be wise to have some good old books so if we ever had a boat problem and no internet connection.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 11, 2019, 07:13:34 PM
George,

I just got back from a short cruise without internet.  Yea!  :clap

Noah's right, read Critical Upgrades. Print it out, memorize it. :shock:  These issues are specific to C34s.  Forget those books for now.

One of the Critical Upgrades suggests doing a search on the word "weblog."  One of them is this gem:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,663.0.html  And Steve followed up with a Year Two report, which comes up on the weblog search.  And many other skippers have done so.  Please read them. 

Again:  These issues are specific to C34s.  :D

THAT is the kind of information NO surveyor (even a superb one) is gonna know about, but are VALUABLE (literally) to YOU.  Rigging is rigging, sails are sails, but stanchion vent leaks are specific to our boats (and other Catalinas).

Armed with those JUICY TIDBITS you will have an upper hand in any negotiations, because you will know specific things to look for.

Electronics and batteries are consumables.  Learn to live with it.  I am a neanderthal who still lives without an integrated chartplotter, just a handheld Garmin GPSMap 76Cx.  How can I survive?!?  I sailed my boat from San Francisco to Canada with that horrible little non-chartplotter!!!  One replaces batteries every five years or so, longer when you learn how to take care of them, but is NOT an issue when buying a boat.  In fact, you'd be better off with almost dead ones so you can figure out what YOU want to replace them with.

But a "broken" fridge system IS something to "deal" with.  And I have a link I can share with you where a respected skipper uses dorm fridges off an inverter and it works, energy-wise.  Many ways to skin the cat, but only after you "get there."

This website and forum have "collected" things to look for, and the Critical Upgrades is THE place to start, then the weblogs.

Be like Santa:  make a LIST.   8)

In fact, post it here and we'll help you with it.  :D

Good luck.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 12, 2019, 08:24:00 AM

  Welcome back Stu, I hope you enjoyed your sail.

  Saturday was an adventure, we stopped off and looked at a 1986 Ericson 35-3 on our way to look at the Catalina I was talking about. We found it to be nice but we thought it really did not have a birth that could handle two adults one being 6'3". Then it was back off to see the Catalina 34 again, we found the boat armed with the advice from the members here to be in very good condition. I brought a flashlight and opened up and poked my head and hands everywhere. You know what? After getting some advice here and going through the boat again I found myself exhausted from thinking about all the things I should be thinking about Lol, really. I sat down with the broker and shared my thoughts, he walked me through the boat buying process as I mentioned to him that I seen one more Catalina 34 pop on to the radar screen just that morning. The new Catalina a 1986 was just up the coast an hour. What was different about this boat was the rigging and sails were new, new upholstery and the refrigerator just received a new re fridgeration unit, I'm not sure what that's called, maybe the condensing unit or something. So the broker is trying to setup and opportunity for us to view this possible new boat choice mid week or next weekend. I sense it is good to allow the broker who has the listing for the first Catalina talked about here to see that we are not stuck on just one boat. Who knows maybe the figure I hinted at below the boat owners best and lowest price will make its way back to the owner and I will get a surprise phone call. Wishful thinking but it is never a bad idea to plant a seed if its authentic. So armed with even more information ( critical upgrades) pointed out by you and Noah I will be even more ready to take on the task of the exhausting boat buying process, fun but exhausting. 

  Thanks again everyone.                                         
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: scgunner on May 12, 2019, 04:39:13 PM
    George,

        Unless it's way overpriced or way or your budget boat #2 sounds like the one you, a good piece of advice I got years ago was always buy the nicest boat you can afford. The thing with upgrades is you'll enjoy them while you have the boat but you'll never get the money you spent for them back when you sell the boat. It sounds like boat #2 already has a lot of the stuff you want and need.                                                                                                                                                                                                         An example of what I'm talking about, let's say boat #2 spent $10,000 to do those upgrades, while it will probably increase the value of the boat a few grand there's no way it increases the value of the boat by $10,000. So if you buy boat #1 it will cost you $10,000 to do those upgrades, not to mention the lead time it will take to order, install or have installed the upgrades. If you get boat #2 you can enjoy those upgrades the minute you take possession of the boat for less money.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 12, 2019, 05:34:52 PM
George,

Exhausting?  Understood, but hardly something to be concerned about.  Look at it this way:  You are one of the most fortunate prospective C34 owners on the planet!  Why?  Because with what you've shared with us, you have possibly TWO, count 'em, TWO, C34s that could qualify as "The One!"  Many of us looked for our boats for extended periods of time before we found that one that was right for us.  We spent an entire YEAR looking at NOTHING BUT Catalina 34s.  We saw some sorry examples of neglect, abuse and stupidity.  In your "short time" you've found two.

Sounds like good karma to me.   :clap :clap :clap

Keep up the good work.

Before I forget: 
1)  engine hours - make note of them
2)  the '86 boat will have an M25 engine, where the newer boat should have the M25XP.  Differences?  2 more HP on the XP but essentially the identical machine except for the 3 inch HX and the improved alternator bracket (in the Critical Upgrades).  I "made my M25" into an XP by adding the bigger HX and the alternator bracket.
3)  check both for an ammeter in the cockpit, needs to be a voltmeter

Good luck, happy viewing.

Take pictures before you start confusing the two of them!  :shock:
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 12, 2019, 08:38:28 PM
  Kevin, thanks for the advice about the depreciation of electronic equipment after installing them on a boat. It looks like you better love a boat and plan on keeping it for a good while if you are going to do a lot of upgrades.
  Now speaking about loving a boat, looking and chasing after the right boat reminds me of when I was young chasing girls, your on the hunt looking for that right girl forgetting the true fun is the journey its self. I better keep on reminding myself about that as I worry about taking to much time to make an offer and losing a possible good choice (fun). OK I'm reminding myself again its about the journey :)

  Stu, the second boat I was talking about the one the broker was going to investagate for me, the one that maybe to good to be true maybe to good to be true. The broker said he made some calls, he said one problem was the owner had an offer but would only move $1000.00 from his asking price of $39,000.00. It was also said that the owner has no proof of the timeline of upgrades, even when the last time the haul was painted. It seems he has no paper trail. I guess a Savoy skilled sailor, not me would be able to investagate for his or her self the truth of these matters. One more thought if I allow my mind off the leash, my broker has the listing on the beautiful but none upgraded boat but the other boat is an hour away with half the commission. I really should have better faith in my fellow man, I do, he appears to be a good man. I will proceed with caution. Everything is on hold to this coming Friday. I hope to share and learn more here on this adventure.

  George   
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 12, 2019, 08:42:47 PM
Good maintenance records, with dates, engine hours and service performed indicates a certain amount of care that would most likely be exhibited in the rest of the efforts related to the boat.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 12, 2019, 08:46:06 PM

  I totally agree with your last reply Stu, I wonder how much of all the good records and good service is possible in the real world. I guess only with a hidden gem.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Ekutney on May 13, 2019, 08:42:51 AM
I bought a 1986 C34 in 2016, the PO had it for 27 years & upgraded to a larger boat.  This forum was extremely helpful with many of the projects I did to include:
Replace exhaust riser, water lift muffler & exhaust hose
Clean 3" heat exchanger
Replace all engine hoses
Replace scupper hoses
Replace all fresh water hoses
Replace fresh water pump
Replace water heater
Replace Marlon thru hulls with bronze seacocks
Traveler thru bolt
Install Cruiseair AC unit


The PO did a good job of keeping the boat clean but most systems were original & I agree 100% that you're better off buying a boat where the upgrades have been done (ONLY if there were done correctly!!)  I sail the Chesapeake & what I have discovered is there are more EXPERTS than I thought possible in the Marine industry & very few actually know how to get back to you when they promise.

Good luck & using this forum to get good data is the best path I have found.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: scgunner on May 13, 2019, 09:59:21 AM
     George,

       It sounds like the boat you're looking at(boat#1)is "Maineac", I know the boat it's on dock 8 in Alamitos Bay, I know this because until a couple months ago my boat "Top Gun" was on dock 8, it's now on dock 12. "Maineac" has been on the market for at least several months, so I don't think you need to be in a big hurry to make a decision on this boat.

        I did a quick look on the internet and what I found was from Oxnard to San Diego there are a lot of C34s for sale. The nicely equipped and maintained boats seem to be around 39K. "Maineac" is not one of these boats, what it appears to be is an honest, original(no visible upgrades)and hopefully well maintained boat. It looks like it gets sailed(a good thing), as opposed to a boat that just sits(a bad thing), I've seen it in Avalon before. The thing to remember is you have time, "Maineac" isn't going anywhere, I'd recommend looking at 2 or 3 more boats at least, especially a couple of those nice 39K boats. It'll give you a better idea of the difference between "Maineac" and a 39K boat and if you want to spend the money up front or not.

        Another thing to keep in mind is if you do buy "Maineac" remember the slip doesn't come with it. You should run over to the marina office and sign up for a slip, there's probably a waiting list and when you get a slip you'll almost certainly wind up in Shoreline.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 13, 2019, 07:52:36 PM
    Ekutney  air conditioning, nice. I'm sure the owner of the boat that is mostly original has some unmentioned remove and replaced parts that I will find out about later.

    Scgunner, your right about boat one, yes slip 52. I'm new to buying my first sailboat as an owner, I have looked at maybe a dozen boats now and I remain surprised as to the condition of the interior of the boat. When you go down below its immaculate, you swear you were in a new boat, the wood work appears perfect. The engine is very clean, no leaks, the main wire harness I do not know if it was replaced but its condition is very very good. I have very little experience, none with salt water but working as an industrial electrical contractor for 30 years the wiring on the engine harness looks great. Mostly on machines wires become oil soaked especially on hydraulic equipment causing the wires to puff up. Looking at the boat twice I notice the bilge empty and completely clean and dry. about face height above the dinning room table there is a bolt/screw going into the mast. The mast is painted white and I noticed the paint bubbling around the screw as if there was some corrosion setting in a little bit, its in my notes. The surface of the boat, the deck and the haul appears to the amateur eye to be in near perfect condition accept for a quarter size crazing I think you call it, next to the cockpit seat hinge bolt, its very little but I noted it. ON this boat a big thing to me is the re fridgeration unit needing service and will be noted and talked about if I offer on this boat.
  There is actually a few  slips available to close to scooner or later, better then nothing but you right 8-52 will not be available to me if I buy that boat. Yes I am thinking about going to Oxnard to look at the 1986 Catalina 34 Splash Dance, its a lot better equipped yet I have noticed often better equipped boats this size have a tendency to have a lot more use and wear. I'm sure some where was the excited new sailor with money who put in a lot of upgrades then became dis inchanted, OK, where are you boat, :) 
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 13, 2019, 08:08:49 PM
George,

I think I mentioned that we looked at only C34s for an entire year.  At this rate you'll catch up.

What I learned by looking at multiple presentations of the same if not identical product, is that one gets very good at learning the details one should look for.  :D

I found it helped immeasurably in determining the quality of my final choice.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 13, 2019, 08:39:20 PM

  Hi Stu

  I have been studying and looking at boats for about six months, the first four months I was just outside of reality. I was looking at boats I truly couldn't afford when it came right down to it. I have learned about all the extra things that I will need to pay for during and after the purchase and now I'm hopefully settling down to a more realistic boat for my budget. Of course I'm not saying I have nothing to learn, I have everything to learn I have just touched the top of the iceberg. I only moved over to looking at the C34's after my reality check and then really starting to see what a wise possible choice for both new and experienced sailors. It appears to be a whole lot of bang for your buck.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 16, 2019, 11:06:51 AM


    Just sharing my thoughts and experience so far on the Catalina 34 boat buying process. Being my budget is in the $40,000 dollar range my budget limits me to mostly boats of the 1980's. Maybe in some ways it was unfortunate to run into as one member here stated a time capsule Catalina 34. A time capsule because going aboard you feel like you walked onto a pretty new boat, great condition, one problem, little to no upgrades. There has been some, fuel tank, water heater, new toilet, heat ex changer but for the most part original sails and all, I seen a beginner could get a few good used sails for under $1000.00 if careful.
    So far up to date I have seen 5 34's in person and I will see one more tomorrow that has been cruised offshore and has all the equipment and more. So far I have notice that some of the boats cruised hard show intense wear and tear, reminds me of the old 1960 and 70's car with a 120,000 miles, a bit beat. I am sure there are some owners out there that have walked the fine line of use and upgrades accompanied with a whole lot of love and respect for their boat, I just have not found that (yet). I am beginning to think that a boat maybe even a time capsule with the right offer may have the right foundation, the good bones to be a great starter boat for a mechanically and electrically inclined new sailor. After all how many sailors purchased a brand new Catalina 34 bare bones, I read at times in the past with no seat cushions or even life lines. Please tell me if I'm in error, if you have an auto pilot, a depth and speed instrument, a good compass and a notebook with navionics you have the basics to grow from. Oh yes, for the newbie sailor, a good life raft and insurance.
   
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 16, 2019, 11:49:32 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am beginning to think that a boat maybe even a time capsule with the right offer may have the right foundation, the good bones to be a great starter boat for a mechanically and electrically inclined new sailor. After all how many sailors purchased a brand new Catalina 34 bare bones, I read at times in the past with no seat cushions or even life lines. Please tell me if I'm in error, if you have an auto pilot, a depth and speed instrument, a good compass and a notebook with navionics you have the basics to grow from. Oh yes, for the newbie sailor, a good life raft and insurance.
 

Good thoughts, George.

Basically, the right foundation gets you a great boat.  The wrong boat with all the bells & whistles may well not do so.

Our boat was pristine when we bought her from her single owner, she was 12 years old.  I thought that with the Harken BattCar system and the cleanliness of everything else, that I had THE boat.  Forever.  We bought the boat because of the aft head and aft cabin.  We'd had a Catalina 25 for 13 years, and a C22 for 5 before that.

Well, I did have THE boat for a long, long time.  But once we bought her, I immediately replaced the old ferroresonant charger with a new Freedom 15 Heart Inverter/Charger because the PO had installed a microwave, unheard of in 1986 boats.  I upgraded the electrical system by putting in a larger alternator.  I slowly went the LED route, but my use said it didn't much dent my energy budget with the old lamps because my mom taught me to turn off lights in rooms I didn't occupy!  I anchored out regularly compared to my SF Bay C34 colleagues who simply didn't.  Ever.  I upgraded the traveler.  I did or made sure of all the Critical Upgrades.

Now that I've moved to Canada, there are two things that I sure wish I had based on how I use our boat:

1.  Windlass - I anchor out a lot here and the water is way deeper.

2.  Diesel heat - Would extend my season and Steve Dolling mentioned how cold it was for them even in Northern California on their trip to MX and he came from here! (And had heat, IIRC.)

What all this means for you is this:  carefully analyze How YOU Intend to Use Your Boat. 

Only then will all the bells & whistles start to make sense.  Analyze your needs and compare them to wants; two very different things.  Folks said I'd die out there if I didn't have a HUGE chartplotter at the helm with a below decks ram autopilot.  I spend literally no time behind the wheel and if I ever did the very last thing I'd want is a huge TV screen in my way.  I have an anemic old ST3000 wheel autopilot.  It gets me around and taught me good sail trim.  It is not a unit for sailing across oceans, but how many of us do?

My cushions remain in great shape except for the two seats at the nav station and right in front of the galley.  I stuck a couple of sheets of foam underneath and now they don't bottom out, but I'm making plans to replace those two.  My OEM cockpit cushions don't like rain (which we hardly got in SF) so I use throwable cushions.  Many have purchased those nifty blue seats with backs that are truly worth it - I've tried them on other boats.

You can find out what a bare bones C34 was like in 1986 by going to the wiki, link below, and looking at the price list and features.  One of the hallmarks of these boats was that "bare bones" got you an ENTIRE boat. 
http://c34.org/wikiwp/?rdp_we_resource=http%3A%2F%2Fc34.org%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DEvolution_of_the_Catalina_34

You'll need insurance to get a slip.  I don't have a life raft and know of few who do coastal cruising who do, although Steve did.

Your final thought hit it out of the park.  You're right.  :D
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Noah on May 16, 2019, 12:03:11 PM
Again a good, solid, well maintained C34 boat is all you need. The only upgrades needed are the “Critical Upgrades” that are detailed on this website in their own section. However, I would add standing rigging to list, if over 10-15 years old, or at least a full rig inspection. There are items on our 30-year-old boats that “are on borrowed time” (as Jon W. unfortunately noted with his fuel tank) and will eventually need replacement sooner than later, these are: fuel tank, exhaust risers, reefer compressors, some pumps like macerators. All else is maintainable. You can still start sailing with old sails, no autopilot, and certainly, no life raft needed! Insurance is cheap $400-500 per year through BoatUs/Gieco
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 16, 2019, 12:51:37 PM
 Thanks, Stu and Noah.

  Noah, yes I agree what good is great sails if you have very poor rigging. With good rigging I can hoist a rag but with poor rigging someone is going to get hurt, maybe someone I love. Stu, I have one more boat in the morning to look at and then I think I will present an offer on one of them, if it's the the bare bones boat my offer will reflect the big picture with so much great help here.
  I was totally surprised yesterday to see one boat with a poor paint job in the cabin. If painting is a must make it beautiful and light. Another one I seen yesterday on my 300 mile trip had its navigation table cut in half to fit a re refrigerator in its corner, but it did have $8,000.00 dollars worth of navigation equipment and electronics. I would not dream of defiling a boat to fit a $100,00 refrigerator, call me old fashioned. My father God rest his soul always taught  me " Your home, your garage, your tools, your car and I will add your boat is a reflection of the condition and the shape of ones mind".
  Oh yes, nothing wrong with adding a $100.00 dollar fridge, just dont cut the boat up to do it.
 
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 16, 2019, 01:07:17 PM
George, now you personally know what I meant when I said when we were looking, for a year for ONLY Catalina 34s, we saw many horrible examples of neglect and abuse.

Silly or idiots?  Doesn't matter - same level of decay.   ARRRGH!!!! :shock:
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 18, 2019, 12:40:24 PM

    Hello Stu, scgunner, Kevin, Noah and all.

  My offer was accepted yesterday on a very clean stock Catalina 34, the one I had mentioned here. It was a long hard day of haggling with a very close call to no deal. But in the end a good deal was put together, I feel good about it. Now the deal will move to a complete survey including engine, rigging, deck and Hull inspections, of course everything else I hope. I'm looking for my own inspectors in the Long Beach Los Alamitos bay area if any one has experience with a trust worthy surveyor in these parts. Now I know I will be even more grateful for a forum like this. :clap   
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: glennd3 on May 18, 2019, 02:34:36 PM
Congratulations :clap!!!!!!!!!!!! We  need pictures and more info about the boat.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: glennd3 on May 18, 2019, 02:59:11 PM
Just saw the pictures on Yacht world, Very well maintained from the pictures. I think you did very well. I would not worry to much about adding anything until you sail it for a season,then decide what you would like to add if anything. Great looking 34!
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 18, 2019, 03:02:38 PM
  Thanks so much, it took me 4 children and 41 years for the dream I had at age 17 while walking on the docks of Alamitos bay California to come to fruitation. I'm so ready for this chapter of my life. I'm 58 going on 17 cool. Pictures to come soon.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 18, 2019, 05:07:53 PM
  Here's a picture of  my knew 1987 Catalina 34. The only thing that may get in the way now is a bad survey but I don't think so.
  Don't look at the price tag. I'm leaving the price out, out of respect of the owners privacy.
  https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/1987-catalina-34-6891822/?refSource=standard%20listing
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 18, 2019, 08:37:48 PM
Gee, now all you have to do is slap YOUR name on her.

All the best of luck, you've done your homework.

We're here to help all along the way.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 19, 2019, 05:50:05 AM
  Thanks again my friend. This forum has reminded me of the good times I had in my youth with my car club. I had a 1966 Chevy Chevelle, the club was fun and its members were a great resource for upgrading  the performance of our cars and learning new skills to do it
 Yes, there will be a new name.

  SV Transcendence if the name is not taken, it maybe do to the the Influence of my girlfriend be the Sand pebble.
  I will let the forum know how the survey turns out.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Jim Hardesty on May 19, 2019, 06:57:10 AM
Quote
Yes, there will be a new name.

Welcome.  You said you are a new sailor.  My two cents.
You need to decide if you are going to be one of those that honor the traditions or not.  Everything is online and just needs to be googled.  For Shamrock's renaming I just went with drinks with friends and nice graphics.  Some go all out. I understand from a friend that went all out the pee from a virgin was hard to find.
The choice is yours. FWIW One of my peeves is bad flag etiquette.
Jim
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: scgunner on May 19, 2019, 07:22:50 AM
        '66 Chevelle is a great car, I've got a '67 El Camino, it makes a great boat car.

        If you like that name for your boat, I wouldn't be to concerned about it already being "taken", there are probably one or more boats with that name already. When I got my boat, "Top Gun", in 1988 due to the popularity of the movie there were at least a half a dozen boats(sail and power) in and around the area with that same name. I haven't seen another Top Gun around for awhile though.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: britinusa on May 19, 2019, 10:51:37 AM
Congrats, looks nice and clean. Here's hoping the survey looks a good.

Quote
  I understand from a friend that went all out the pee from a virgin was hard to find.
Jim

That was a toughy for us too. But the bottle of Bubbly was pretty close. ;)

Paul
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 19, 2019, 12:45:24 PM
    Thanks Jim, Paul and all.
  I think my boats name change will come about like any good relationship with a woman does: I will be true to you, take care of you to the best of my ability, I will never neglect you. In return I expect you to take care of me even when I make a few amateur mistakes.
  Then remove her old name off the back of the boat and then remove any all objects from the boat with her name on it. A toast with my favorate beverage with one drink going overboard to Neptune Lol, no seriously why take the chance of pissing off Neptune.
     
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: britinusa on May 20, 2019, 05:32:28 AM
Here's how we did it. A couple from our sailing club even stood in for the Gods.


https://www.sailingeximius.com/2015/06/renaming-ceremony.html (https://www.sailingeximius.com/2015/06/renaming-ceremony.html)

And the video: https://www.sailingeximius.com/2015/06/renaming-ceremony-video-by-matt-dreiss.html (https://www.sailingeximius.com/2015/06/renaming-ceremony-video-by-matt-dreiss.html)

 :santa

Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on May 20, 2019, 06:03:31 AM
  That was great, you guys really went all out. I want to party with you guys if our paths ever cross. I don't think I can match your level of ceremony so it looks like I better get creative in my own way not to insult the Gods. Thanks for my Monday morning laugh and showing me the good spirit that resides in the Sailing Community.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on June 06, 2019, 07:23:22 PM
  Hello all.
  I just wanted to give a follow up on my boat buying process. It's been a learning process. 6-5-19 survey day, my possible new 1987 Catalina 34 was taken out of the water, no Catalina smile and no blisters. The surveyor of my choosing said both the hull and deck looked great, no hull blisters, it did have a few on the keel, the surveyor said no worries if on the keel. We did find an exhaust leak between the engine and muffler, that is being fixed. The original 4000 autopilot tried to work but it either had likely a belt problem or a motor problem, Ether way they said, owner and broker it would be fixed or a price adjustment, yes I heard $1500.00. The standing rigging is good but old and should be replaced and adjustments to price is happening. The main sail has plenty of life left but the front sail, jib or Genoa Sail? has been repaired a few times and only has a few seasons left. I get the survey back tomorrow 6-7-19 and will have the surveyors evaluation to go to bat with. I almost wished I did not meet the owners, beautiful people. On a second thought it doesn't matter, good business is when all parties are happy or should be in the light of reality.
  Again thanks guys and gals for all your feed back during this newbies boat buying process.
  George
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Noah on June 06, 2019, 08:59:45 PM
Congrats! Fingers crossed. So far sounds goood. $1,500 for that old autopilot is a generous gift.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on June 06, 2019, 09:08:40 PM
  Thanks Noah.
  About the autopilot, that was it is my understanding the cost for a new one installed is about $1500.00 I will be lucky if it needs replaced to get $750.00 taken off my purchase price. I hope to be the owner before the week is out.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Noah on June 06, 2019, 10:10:50 PM
It depends what kind of new autopilot you go with as to what it will cost. When I bought my boat and installed a below deck hydraulic pilot I tossed my St4000 giving it away my to my electrician for him to cannibalizes for spare parts to help stranded cruisers in Mexico. A new Evo 100 or 200 linear drive can cost a lot more then $1500 and a below deck hydraulic can cost a lot more than that by the time you install.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Patches on June 07, 2019, 06:13:18 AM
I also had a non-working Autohelm 4000 which came with my boat.  These are not great units, and to fix it you will be sorting through replacement parts sold on eBay by folks who are parting there's out.   

Turns out mine, like many, had a disintegrated "pinion sprocket" which can only be purchased on eBay for $70, and will add a little life--but not much performance--to the 4000.  But these units also have a habit of eating belts (cheaper to replace aftermarket), as well as the pulleys.  Because the only thing needed to bring mine back to functioning was the pinion sprocket, I held my nose and bought one.  It works OK, but the design is definitely obsolete.

If you need to replace, consider the CPT autopilots which are also a belt-type drive and have a reputation of handling much tougher conditions. Most serious autopilots are the below deck-type and use a hydraulic ram to move the rudder post.  They are also much more expensive.  Given your priority list, it doesn't sound like something you'll necessarily want to tackle in Year 1.

So tear down the wheel autopilot--its really easy.  See what has failed inside.  If is is only a belt, you could be back in business for $30-40 on eBay.  If you have broken bits like the pinion sprocket or pulleys, you'll have to decide whether to throw more money at it to buy some time.  In the meantime you can start saving for a replacement.

Patches   
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on June 07, 2019, 06:24:07 PM
  Thanks guys.
  As of now we're still haggling at 6:30 p.m. California time. It looks like this may close tomorrow if all goes well. The old autopilot will have to do for now I asked for $400 for repairs to it, if not the money I'll go to my future new one. I hope I'm back on tomorrow saying I have myself a boat.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on June 08, 2019, 10:01:18 PM
  Another long day, at least today ended with my final purchase of my Catalina 34. thanks everyone for your help, now the real work begins.
  First thing is repair an exhaust
Leak, all new rigging and the repair of the refrigerator, wish me luck. Did I mention the surveyor said above average condition, pride of ownership? Yet still I can see me sinking in $10,000 to get this boat to its hay day. I'm looking forword to the journey with all of your help here God willing.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: NewToTheRoad on June 09, 2019, 04:03:26 AM
Congrats and enjoy!
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Jim Hardesty on June 09, 2019, 04:14:36 AM
IMHO.  Don't get too hung-up on fixing up, repairing and replacing.  Certainly do the safety items and anything that will cause more trouble ie  deak leaks.  After that sail her as much as you can.
Hope you enjoy your new-to-you boat as much as I do Shamrock.
Jim
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on June 09, 2019, 04:49:13 AM
 Thanks Lori and Brian, Jim your right I can be obsessive  at times so it's nice to have a new friend point out the need to proceed with a little caution and to give this new adventure some time to till me what it needs before blindly throwing money at it. I maybe got a little pixie  dust in my eyes Lol. That  what we use to say about new employees starting at Disneyland, so much enthusiasm.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: scgunner on June 09, 2019, 08:35:21 AM
     George,

         Congrats on the purchase of your "new" boat. The C34 is a great boat which is probably why I've had mine for 31yrs. If you need any help or advice I'm just a short walk away(Dock 12-#30)from you.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on June 09, 2019, 10:01:09 AM
  Thanks Kevin, the old owners are moving out their stuff this weekend, we will be moving over to 17-8 or 14, I will find out on Monday and move the boat Wednesday. I will take you up on your offer and drop by and see you real soon. By the way much of what you pointed out was right and my final offer reflected all the many great pointers offered here. There is no looking back for me now, it's my boat come what may, I will make her mine now. I can see I have a good foundation but a lot of work ahead, especially learning to sail again. It's been 15 years and most of my experience was on smaller boats.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Breakin Away on June 09, 2019, 03:15:13 PM
My ST4000 autopilot failed on my maiden voyage after taking ownership. I disassembled the wheel mechanism and the belt was shredded where it makes the tight wrap around the motor sprocket. I think this is common if left unused for a few years.

Raymarine has discontinued the belt for the original ST4000, but perfectly fine replacement belts are readily available on ebay. I bought two so I'd have a spare. It is a very easy fix:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=belt+raymarine+d169&_sacat=0
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on June 09, 2019, 03:31:33 PM
  Thank you for the link. I have a feeling mine may have the same problem. My boat has sat for awhile do to the owner having some health issues, the reason for the sale. I thought I heard the belt slipping, the electronics were on, all lit up and the motor was trying to run. By the way nice boat in your picture, mines more of an off white, you cant have it all. Yet I feel it's been awhile since she was buffed out, that should spruce her up.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on June 10, 2019, 04:27:24 PM
Congratulations!!!

You can add "The New Boat Smell" by buying a can of air freshener, fiberglass smell.  I use one every decade whether I need it or not!   :D

Why not start new thread telling us about your exhaust thing?  I already have a few ideas, i.e., BTDT.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: SV Sand Pebble on June 10, 2019, 04:40:57 PM
  Thanks, and I will start a thread when I can. So many loose ends still, the Marina, the broker still and Insurance.
  My exhaust leak is between the engine manifold and the muffler. I received a price discount for its repair, I think $600.00 it may just needs some bolts tightened, I will find out by this weekend. I will be sure to post what I find out. I always love to hear idea's, new boat smell? I am sure my girl friend would like a can of that, she liked this boat because it did not smell Lol.
Title: Re: Prospective Owner Questions
Post by: Stu Jackson on June 10, 2019, 06:05:49 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  My exhaust leak is between the engine manifold and the muffler. I received a price discount for its repair, I think $600.00 it may just needs some bolts tightened, I will find out by this weekend. I will be sure to post what I find out.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You could start here

http://c34.org/muffler-exhaust-riser-replacement-2015/

and "take it with you" to the new thread.  :clap

One of the first things I did was a thorough inspection and getting to learn all the parts and how they worked together.  It really helps.

After 21 years I finally figured out what they call the pointy end.  :D

We're here to help.