Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: Jon W on May 04, 2019, 08:48:31 PM

Title: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: Jon W on May 04, 2019, 08:48:31 PM
I was reading the new magazine and saw that a C36 owner installed a remote oil filter system. Removing  the lube oil filter from the engine and locating on a bulkhead is a very interesting idea. Has anyone with a C34 done a similar installation?
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet
Post by: KWKloeber on May 04, 2019, 08:57:31 PM
Jon

There's C-30ers who have - one guy did his last season.
Wb sells a very expensive ROF kit but you can get a similar one online. Some are higher quality (billet vs cast aluminum) than others- if interested I can find out which kit he used?
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet
Post by: Jon W on May 04, 2019, 10:17:07 PM
I am interested in which kit, thanks.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet
Post by: KWKloeber on May 05, 2019, 09:08:14 AM
Jon

Inquiry sent. I also had this info from Jegs.

This kit here will work
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/51715/10002/-1

Brandon Johnson
Jeg's Customer Service
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet
Post by: KWKloeber on May 05, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
PS, the Wb kit is like $300 or more.

Jon

Here's his reply. Turns out he didn't do it yet, still on the 2do list.

Hi Ken,
The research that I did showed that JEGS Performance Products #51715 universal remote oil filter mount would do the trick.


All you really need are the heads, the hoses are no big deal, low pressure and just hose barbs/hose clamps needed.

Ken
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 05, 2019, 08:25:54 PM
I personally know the author.  I will followup with him and report back.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: britinusa on May 06, 2019, 05:35:34 AM
Thanks for posting that link Ken, I just ordered the kit.

Paul
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: scgunner on May 06, 2019, 08:32:56 AM
     While a remote oil filter is an interesting idea I don't really see the point, unless you just need another project for your boat. Les gives two reasons for this modification; first changing the filter makes a mess, in my experience vertical oil filters leak just as much oil during removal as horizontal filters, also you have to be careful with the vertical after removal--it's full of oil, the horizontal is not. Les' second reason is an empty filter will damage the motor. This is not the case, at start up the oil pump draws oil for lubrication from the sump(which is full) not the filter.

     The original oil filter set up is elegantly simple, it screws into the engine block with a single rubber gasket. The remote application requires a lot more stuff; oil hoses, fittings, mountings. When working on my boat I've always found it best to" keep it simple".
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 06, 2019, 11:01:39 AM
Here's what Les wrote to me:

I bought a billet Al off eBay for ~$15-20 usd.  The hose & fittings were $80.  I've always spilled some oil when changing the filter they must be better than I am.  I think my alternator is running cooler, I clipped the zip ties that kept the doses from rubbing on the filter.  I was able to mount a oil temp sensor away from vibration, those trying to add oil pressure in addition to switch now have a good location rather than risking 1/8" plumbing to extend and tee the switch location.   I also got ~4-5 seconds of clatter after a oil change so something caused low oil pressure at first startup. 

These kits are used on high end auto builds and race cars, there is a reason I spent so much on AN style hoses -they are superior to hose clamps

But as always your boat your choice. 


If you have any more questions for him, please get in touch with him directly.  He's the C36 Mark I Tech Editor and his contact should be in Mainsheet.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: Jon W on May 06, 2019, 02:42:23 PM
Thanks Stu, appreciate you following up.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: Ron Hill on May 06, 2019, 03:05:35 PM
Guys : I'd surely do it for the Boat!!
I did that remote oil filter for my VW bug convertible!!  Got the filter in a place that was more convenient and it also added another quart? of oil which promoted better engine cooling!!  Now I also had an oil filter!!

A thought
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: scgunner on May 07, 2019, 08:25:33 AM
     Ron,

        Not exactly the same situation, the Bug never had an oil filter only an oil screen so if you wanted an oil filter it would out of necessity have to be a remote installation. The Universal, on the other hand already has an oil filter so you're just changing locations, with out from what I can see much advantage.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mainesail on May 07, 2019, 11:36:31 AM
Quote from: Ron Hill on May 06, 2019, 03:05:35 PM
Guys : I'd surely do it for the Boat!!
I did that remote oil filter for my VW bug convertible!!  Got the filter in a place that was more convenient and it also added another quartof oil which promoted better engine cooling!! 

A thought
Bingo! When you go remote you're no longer limited to the teeny-tiny factory filter. I dramatically up-sized our remote filter.. Our engine takes a complete extra quart and the oil remains cleaner for longer..

Remote Location
(https://pbase.com/mainecruising/image/169159151.jpg)

Factory Filter vs. Remote Filter
(https://pbase.com/mainecruising/image/169159152.jpg)

One other trick is the use of Parker quick-connect fittings for the vacuum pump hose and engine sump hose. Oil changes are very, very easy.
(https://pbase.com/mainecruising/image/169159153.jpg)
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mdidomenico on June 06, 2020, 02:52:58 PM
So i purchased the recommended remote kit from jegs 51715, but it doesn't seem to fit.  the flange that goes on the engine seems to be about a 1/4" to large and the gasket ring is beyond the flange the filter normally sits on.  the billet from jegs says it's 2-3/4 in diameter, but it seems the oil filter on my engine is smaller, maybe 2-1/2" sorry i didn't have a tape measure with me.

has anyone else done this modification to an mxp25a engine?  i'm looking around to see if the kit comes in different sizes, but i've haven't found it yet
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: KWKloeber on June 06, 2020, 04:38:32 PM
Quote from: mdidomenico on June 06, 2020, 02:52:58 PM

i'm looking around to see if the kit comes in different sizes, but i've haven't found it yet


You shouldn't need to do a bunch of looking around, just call JEGS and give them your filter number and I imagine they can figure this out.  I've found they have pretty good customer service.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mdidomenico on June 06, 2020, 05:08:12 PM
i shot them an email already, i'll see what they come up with and report back.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mdidomenico on June 09, 2020, 05:07:05 AM
Jegs support replied and said they didn't have anything that would fit the smaller oil filter.  Since i'm not going in the water this year, i'll probably shelve this project for a while, but i guess i'll have to keep looking around.  i'm sure something exists that isn't the $350 westerbeke kit
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mdidomenico on June 09, 2020, 11:49:30 AM
does anyone know the thread size for the oil filter?  following more into this thread, i believe this is the connector pipe on the engine 301490 (westerbeke pn), but i can't find the thread size anywhere.  i found these spin on adapters https://derale.com/product-footer/filtration/engine2013-10-28-09-53-27459934969/spin-on-adapters , but they come in different thread sizes as well as multi-fit universal ones.  since i already have the jegs kit, thought i might try one of these and adapt the two together rather then return the jegs kit.  derale also seems to make kits.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: KWKloeber on June 09, 2020, 01:49:01 PM
I do (did the research on ROFs a couple yrs ago - but it will take me a while to go back and locate it and report back.

-k
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mdidomenico on June 09, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
don't sweat it.  i ended up ordering the "universal" adapter through amazon.  it has a bunch of adapters along with the flange that claim to fit a range of threads.  we'll see.  it was shipped/sold by amazon.com and listed as prime, so if it sucks it'll go back.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: KWKloeber on June 09, 2020, 06:31:56 PM
For the record.

20mm x 1.5

I presume the Jegs filter end won't fit "our" filters- you would need to use a larger one?  3/4 is I think the most common and a much larger filter could be used which will help with cooling (larger volume of oil.)
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filterIf the
Post by: KWKloeber on June 11, 2020, 12:53:39 AM
If the adapter doesn't work - you could always order just the filter land adapter from the Westerbele remote oil kit.  p/n 040075
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mdidomenico on June 12, 2020, 05:52:51 PM
just an update.  i received the universal adapter today from derale.  the flange is smaller then the kit from jegs.  unfortunately it looks like the way they've adapted it, it requires inserting a nut which is held in place by a retention spring.  i'm sure it'll work, but it makes me nervous.  i sent the company an email to see if the 20mm version they have is threaded.  i'll check the fit at the boat this weekend.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mdidomenico on June 13, 2020, 02:17:00 PM
Looks like the spin on adapter from delare seems to fit better.  the jegs one has a nicer finish, but doesn't fit.
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: KWKloeber on June 14, 2020, 02:05:53 AM
MD

Thanks for the update!  I don't like the look of the o-ring being so close to the edge. 
Here are the filter spec - how does that adapter measure up?

Gasket OD    64.0 mm (2.52 in)
Gasket ID  57.4 mm (2.26 in)



I'm going to be careful what I say here because I haven't installed a ROF kit so can't personally attest to which kit fits the Kubota filter land or is applicable to a diesel.

However -- the Kubota oil filter size/part number crosses to the same filter that fits a 1995 Honda Civic L4 engine (and many other vehicles.)  Although another owner came up with that ROF kit part number -- it does NOT appear to be the one that fits that vehicle. 
So you might want to research JEGS or Summit Racing or NAPA or Heyden or Trans Dapt ROF kits that fit that Honda application.

A note - I see a few ROF info sheets that carry a warning "not for diesel or marine use." 
I have no clue why that might be the case.

You might want to reach out to Rod Collins, as he has installed a ROF on his Westerbeke (not Universal) and he might know the answer to the reason behind the diesel/marine warning.

-ken
Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: mdidomenico on June 14, 2020, 03:48:04 AM
I agree i'm not a huge fan of the gasket landing either.  it's a pretty thick but it does seem to seam well into the groove and against the flange face.  the spring clip/nut arrangement does seem to allow me to torque down on the fitting pretty well, maybe its not as much of a concern as i think.

i didn't see any of those warnings on the very brief instructions that came with the packages.  but i'll heed your warning and do a little more research.

unfortunately i left all the parts down at the boat so i can't take measurements.

ultimately for now, i'm going to send these parts back and just put a regular filter back on.  i do like the idea of the remote filter because it lets me use a much larger filter, but i'm not thrilled over the fittings.  the westerbeke part likely is the best option (at least for the engine side), but it's so expensive (comparatively).

Title: Re: Summer 2019 Mainsheet: remote oil filter
Post by: KWKloeber on June 14, 2020, 11:45:00 AM
Here is one (not correct for our engines, but I saw warnings on one or more (not all) other brands/models of kits.)

NOT RECOMMENDED FOR MARINE OR DIESEL APPLICATIONS
https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/5507682.pdf

Odd - I wonder why unless the pressure is lower on diesels and this adds additional loss (which they all would but don't know how much is too much.)