if you look at the picture, that is water coming out of the structure the traveler sits on top of. I never could figure out where water was coming in and when we ground some of the gel coat for stress cracks, that water came pouring out. dug it out to fiberglass and then put the air compressor on one of the screw holes of the traveler and sent water pouring out. so i apparently have to take the entire traveler off and rebed it. what do I use for the rebedding so water doesn't go in the screw holes (which have screws in them) and into the headliner? thanks
becki kain
becki : For the headliner cracks try Capt. Tolly's (SP?) for the beading use Butyl rubber.
With a 1986 boat check Critical Updates & WiKi for the Traveler Mod.!!
A few thoughts
thanks. this water seems to be coming in the screw holes on top. i didn't see that in the wiki, just a note about the thru bolts.
You need to remove the traveler end stops and the bolts holding it down. There were originally only two screws holding it into a threaded plate in that fiberglass.
The Tech Notes warned us with older boats to add a LONG 9 1/2 inch second bolt to each side, all the way through to the headliner below.
Your boat is older than mine, so check to see if you have the second bolts.
This shows the long bolt coming out.
I used two layers of Maine Sail's Bed-It-With-Butyl tape. Easy to do.
you used 2 layers of tape (of which i have tons since it came as a two pack a the time) when you removed and rebed the traveler?
Quote from: anaisdog on April 27, 2019, 04:18:57 PM
you used 2 layers of tape (of which i have tons since it came as a two pack a the time) when you removed and rebed the traveler?
Yes:
Quote from: Stu Jackson on April 27, 2019, 04:11:30 PM
I used two layers of Maine Sail's Bed-It-With-Butyl tape. Easy to do.
I also wrapped a goodly amount around the head of each screw when I put them back in.
Ron's right about that Captain Tolley's, too. I used it at the base of my traveler risers. Great stuff for that kinda crack.
This is from the wiki, I haven't found the tech Note, yet...
http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Traveler_Bolts
becki, this includes mention of those long bolts, second page of the text
www.c34.org/mainsheet/pdf/Nov_2005.pdf
Hey Becki,
Here's a 2017 thread about Russ sealing his traveler against leaks.
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8928.msg71678.html#msg71678
The next season I found a traveler where the bottom of the track was sealed against the fiberglass but the bolt threads were not so much. It failed over time and leaked thru to the Q berth (this wasn't a C34) and had rotted the core. Why the mention if it doesn't pertain to C34? Well, IMO it does pertain.
My sketches here:
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8928.msg71673.html#msg71673
aren't the best -- but are trying to convey the same concept that RC (a/k/a MaineSail, Rod Collins, Compass Marine) shows in his articles about how to use butyl, applied to the traveler situation.
I made the point in my posts that the BEST way (not ONLY way) to use butyl (and really any sealant) is to create a "compression spot," where the goop is forced into under pressure, as you tighten down. A "reservoir of sealant" if you will. RC makes this point when he countersinks the fiberglass before bolting down a deck fitting (a stanchion base, a block, whatever.) That countersink forms the "compression spot" a/k/a "reservoir" that forces sealant to completely seal the bolt threads under pressure.
That may prove necessary only over the long haul but that traveler and core fix, points to the "belt and suspenders" being needed -- but as always -- it's YBYC.
I use this axiom -- the best way to assure that I don't need to deal with something again is to fix it so the next owner also won't need to deal with it. On most fixes, adding the "suspenders" usually takes just a smidgeon more time than the quick fix.
good luck!
-k
POI, the "other" traveler bar was held down with hidden hex bolts heads that fit into a recess, so it had a large void underneath. So to form the "compression spot" we countersunk the fiberglass and put a fender washer between the bar and fiberglass, with butyl UNDER the washer (not on the traveler bar itself.) The "compression spot" was between the washer and fiberglass so it didn't matter how much water got under the bar.
thanks Ken,i have his butyl (and lots of it) so i'll use that
Ken, did you take the traveler completely off?
becki, I did. How else do you get the butyl UNDER the track?
Becki- Be warned the track bolts MAY require some persuasion to remove, as they may by corroded and stuck to the plate they are thread into underneath. Soak them with penetrating oil and perhaps use an impact driver bit.
Stu, how much butyl did you use, do you think? and was it hard to do all of this? i know i put the control ends and cam cleats on, in 2014. when i called catalina today, they said it's so simple they don't bother writing it up.
Quote from: anaisdog on April 29, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
Stu, how much butyl did you use, do you think? and was it hard to do all of this? i know i put the control ends and cam cleats on, in 2014. when i called catalina today, they said it's so simple they don't bother writing it up.
How much?: The length of the traveler riser, times two for the width, times two for two layers, times two for two risers.
I thought you said you had a ton of it.
It was one of the easier things to do. Remove four bolts, after removing the end caps to expose them, lift the track, butyl, replace track and bolts. My picture shows what's needed, although I didn't have one showing the butyl.
It wasn't hard because I'd carefully bedded all the hardware with Lanocote when I installed the new cars and end stops when I upgraded the traveler in 2000.
thanks
You're very welcome.
You now have all the theoretical and practical advise that you could in this dialog. It pretty much summarizes everything the group has recorded in the past 30 years. :D
Don't hesitate to ask right here even if you get stuck in the middle and have more questions.
We're here for ya. :thumb:
first boat and i do most of the work myself so i freak out. thanks
Quote from: anaisdog on April 30, 2019, 08:58:43 AM
first boat and i do most of the work myself so i freak out. thanks
My third and I
still do that! :clap :clap :clap
btw, why did you say my boat was older when they are both 1986?
According to your signatures, you have hull #99 and Stu has#224.
Jon's right. :D
I wrote this as he was posting, beat me to it!
Quote from: anaisdog on April 30, 2019, 02:49:59 PM
btw, why did you say my boat was older when they are both 1986?
becki, simply because 99 comes BEFORE 224. :D:D:D
I used to kid my friend, the late, great Bill Eddy that his boat was older than mine, too. He had 214. And I kidded my friend Stan O'Hoppe that my boat was more "experienced" than his 242.
All 1986.
All in good fun.
Quote from: anaisdog on April 30, 2019, 08:58:43 AM
first boat and i do most of the work myself so i freak out. thanks
becki
Sorry, I was out of touch and unable to answer you.
There's NO reason to freak out. nearly every owner of a "good old boat" goes thru the same level or worse problems as you encounter. just take it as it comes and you will survive them all. the best way to survive is to understand
WHY you are facing what you are and
WHY you are repairing something HOW you do it.
I would avoid doing things "because s/he said so." You have been down that route before (not from on this forum) and it's not necessarily worked out so well.
Quote from: anaisdog on April 29, 2019, 01:30:03 PM
Ken, did you take the traveler completely off?
Yes, you have to, to create the "compression spots" to seal around the fasteners.
Quote from: anaisdog on April 28, 2019, 07:19:16 AM
thanks Ken,i have his butyl (and lots of it) so i'll use that
I encourage you to understand what RC is doing and why, when he explains how to prevent leaks from fasteners. It doesn't matter what the fastener is holding down (like a traveler.) His is the same principle as what you are facing. And his method is not to use LOTS of butyl to compensate for doing it the best way.
You have been advised to do it two different ways. It's YBYC, but what I described per RC's method isn't "theory" -- it is straight from RC's YEARS of practical experience repairing and preventing such leaks and how to prevent water from getting down around fasteners.
Jeremy's critique here using butyl (or really any sealant):
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8928.msg71678.html#msg71678
and applying RC's method to the traveler situation explains why simply putting butyl underneath ANY fitting, be it a deck fitting, stanchion, (or the traveler) isn't
necessarily the best way to prevent a leak.
YBYC