Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: Sdsailor on January 20, 2019, 07:41:16 PM

Title: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on January 20, 2019, 07:41:16 PM
Hello C34 owners. I found a bilge leak. It's seeping in from a crack on the mast step. I've seen the other posts of this crack but without leak. Has anyone else dealt with this?  I have not had any groundings whatsoever, no impact of any kind. I'm planning to haul out to inspect the bottom and see where the leak is coming in and why it's cracking the bilge. I'd like to know what's the best plan of attack and the best/worst case scenario?

Thank You,
Dan
Dukes On Sunday
1987 MK1 Hull 503
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Jon W on January 20, 2019, 09:18:44 PM
It's a little difficult to tell what I'm looking at.

Regarding the small leak; if you have a keel stepped mast, when it rains some water enters the holes in the mast and runs down the mast into the bilge. Not a lot, but enough that I make a point to dry it out after a heavy rain. Are you in fresh or salt water? If salt water, a taste test will tell you if it's a salt water leak.

Regarding the crack, it looks like a coating of something was troweled on top of the fiberglass in the bilge and that is what is cracked. Not the actual bilge. I attached a photo of the walls in my bilge to show the difference.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: DaveBMusik on January 20, 2019, 09:55:04 PM
Here is some fun reading... You may or may not have a similar issue. good Luck!

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9208.msg67466.html#msg67466
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on January 21, 2019, 12:46:26 AM
Thanks guys.  The picture is not good but the video is not allowed.
The water is definitely seeping in from the crack. Which is located on the mast step fwd side.  I don't believe it's  rain water as it's been a week. And after vacuum and dry,  next day was 1/2 water. The crack runs from top of step to bottom corner.   I also looked at the link. Thank you. That is interesting to see what's inside the step. At this point, I worried my keel boltsay be to blame.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: DaveBMusik on January 21, 2019, 05:15:57 AM
I had a small crack at the hull to keel seam with sea water leaking up through a keel bolt.
The early 34's were constructed with plywood between the hull and the bilge floor and there was a channel/void where the water was traveling.
After trying some exterior fixes and worrying about the keel bolts, I ended up ripping out the old plywood and replacing with fiberglass according to Catalina's instructions.
I also dropped the keel to inspect the bolts. The good news was that the bolts were in excellent condition. We cleaned out the seam, bedded with 5200 and glassed the outside. It's not going anywhere and no leaks.
The Catalina documents are located somewhere on the site.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Dave Spencer on January 21, 2019, 10:29:07 AM
I think this is the document Dave is referring to.  It's located in the Tech Wiki under "Hull".

http://c34.org/wiki/images/6/62/CTY_Pre-1988_model_Keel_Stub_Repair_-_Feb_1996.pdf (http://c34.org/wiki/images/6/62/CTY_Pre-1988_model_Keel_Stub_Repair_-_Feb_1996.pdf)

Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on January 21, 2019, 11:52:03 AM
Thanks again guys. I called the insurance company to set up a claim.  After thinking about it more. I suppose the crack in the mast step coupd continue leaking out residual rain water if it were filled, now that I know it's hollow inside. The crack doesn't go to any bolt but I'm hoping for the best is all. I'll update when I have more info.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Noah on January 21, 2019, 01:02:31 PM
Can you taste the water to see if it is seawater or rain water, or are you berthed in freshwater?  Also, I wish you the best with an insurance claim but I fear they will call it "wear and tear" or a "maintenance issue". Keep us posted. Meanwhile, as Jon said, the heavy coating that is cracked in the bilge doesn't look stock and perhaps it was a PO's attempt to solve some problem there?
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on January 22, 2019, 11:29:36 AM
Thanks. I have a surveyor coming out tomorrow. I did taste it but and it wasn't all salty. At the very least I have to insteps the mast. I'll post update tomorrow.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Jon W on January 22, 2019, 11:40:03 AM
If it wasn't salty, and you're in salt water, then don't think it's a below the waterline leak. I'm still suspicious of what thick goop troweled in there is covering.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: kh3412 on January 22, 2019, 02:35:27 PM
Your picture looks like my mast step before the repair. Water comes down the mast and is supposed to drain through the step. Found mine full of lint from the lines running in the mast and whatnot. Think the water pools under the mast and runs down the lag bolts holding the step. The white stuff that was cracked was gelcoat on mine they just spread it around for the finish. How ever you decide to go would consider using a lag/stud so you can set the lag and seal it but still be able to remove the nuts on the mast step for removal.
Attached the instructions from Catalina.
This is for the step not the bilge which is another story :?

Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: kh3412 on January 22, 2019, 02:44:37 PM
Here is a picture of the mast step after repair with the studs sealed in the top ready for step to be bolted.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on January 23, 2019, 10:20:55 PM
Thank You God of the Sea!  i feel so much better today. After reading about the rain water draining into the step from KH3412, This is most likely my issue. Although, I do not know why the step is all over bonded?

I found no water in the bilge today (4 days after vacuuming out). The Surveyor also thinks It's just a mast step issue but wants to inspect the bottom for safety, as do I.

I then spoke with the boatyard, to have them come out and give their assessment of the necessary labor involved.

Im seriously very thankful for everyone's  speedy responses and wisdom. 
Since I'm limited to photos here, and for anyone interested in more detail of ongoing projects,  i've posted video and pics on instagram "sailingdukesonsunday".

Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on January 23, 2019, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: Jon W on January 20, 2019, 09:18:44 PM
It's a little difficult to tell what I'm looking at.

Regarding the small leak; if you have a keel stepped mast, when it rains some water enters the holes in the mast and runs down the mast into the bilge. Not a lot, but enough that I make a point to dry it out after a heavy rain. Are you in fresh or salt water? If salt water, a taste test will tell you if it's a salt water leak.

Regarding the crack, it looks like a coating of something was troweled on top of the fiberglass in the bilge and that is what is cracked. Not the actual bilge. I attached a photo of the walls in my bilge to show the difference.

Jon, thanks for the great picture for me to compare to.  i plan to have it rebuilt. someone mentioned there was a catalina directive to do this. i'll have to locate it.
question:  what are the little shelves you have in the bilges for, high water bilge pump?  thanks,  Dan
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Jon W on January 23, 2019, 10:56:40 PM
I think the attached PDF is the Catalina drawing for keel stub wood removal folks are referring to. I believe a copy is also in the Tech WIKI for downloading.

The shelves are for a second electric bilge pump with it's own float switch that I added a while back. The second pump is a Rule 3400. I've attached a photo with the new pump installed. The top of the pump is just below the removable floorboard. There's a write-up with photo's  in the Tech WIKI if interested. Easiest to look under Projects By Boat/Author, then Della Jean / Jon Windt.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on February 11, 2019, 07:21:56 PM
Short update. Still not fixed. Rain and work had prevented me from getting into it. BUT! I tried drilling inspection ports into the box.  It was solid! Not rotted out. A good thing. So I'm thinking I'm going to dremel out the cracks to see how far the damage extends. I'm a little worried because one of the cracks estends to a keel bolt. It may be superficial, but we'll see. I won't forget to update the resolve. Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on April 03, 2019, 11:08:39 PM
Hello All, update on my mast step crack.  The rain finally stopped in Southern California for me to dry out the bilge and get it over to the shipyard.

It appears it's the same problem all us early hulls have. Water rotted from the natural drainage of the mast.
I read KH3412's great write up on what he found and his beautiful repair.

With the metal plate support, i'm thinking glassing the cracks for this season won't be too big of a deal, as when i drilled through the box, dry dust came out.

thanks for everyone's help. i appreciate this forum.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: Sdsailor on April 10, 2019, 10:23:23 PM
Update. The crack was repaired today. Reglassed. I had a rigging inspection and the bottom inspected. Dukes is nearly ready for our trip in 9 days. While they were in the bilge, I had them install a high water shelf to install a second pump as you guys suggested. Thanks everyone. I was trying to post pics but my phone pics are too big to upload here. I'll try to find a way to resize them.
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: kh3412 on April 11, 2019, 08:54:44 AM
Enjoy your trip 😀
Title: Re: Bilge Leak - crack in bilge mast step
Post by: KWKloeber on April 11, 2019, 09:16:17 PM
To do it right on your device rather than download and size them -- If you email them to yourself there's usually an option (iPhone anyway) to choose the image size.

There cool mobile apps "resize it" and "Image Size" and "ViewXeif" (doesn't resize, but displays hidden info.)

Also, I've found if I upload 1-2 LARGE pix at a time, the forum extension will resize it.  If I do many LARGE files at once, the add-on chokes.