I wanted to review our electrical system with you all and see if any of you have any input. The PO had started to do some upgrades but never finished the project. Everything is working fine but we are looking to finish it up with the goal of being able to spend extended time cruising and on a hook if we wish.
The PO had just installed a new Aquamaax 120 amp alternator, a serpentine drive and a Balmar MC 614 regulator. There also is a new Balmar smart gauge installed but not yet wired. A custom built battery box to fit 4 GC2 batteries under the settee just forward of the sink was installed. There were only 2 GC2 house batteries installed and the start battery was also in this box. The battery charger soon gave up the ghost after our purchase and I installed a Genius 20 amp charger I had laying around temporarily. A new Balmar add a battery switch and ACR are new and still in the package which I will be adding this spring. The alternator also appears to be run to the positive lead on the starter.
So here is the plan. We will be installing 4 new 6 volt 230AH Duracell lead acid batteries which have the GC2 footprint in the battery box. Relocating the start battery, most likely under the aft berth. Install the new battery switch and ACR as well as a new Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 50 amp charger which is new in the box sitting on my kitchen counter. (Thanks Main Sail). Rewire the alternator and Pro Charge directly to the house bank. I have a close friend who's home is completely off the electrical grid using solar here in northern Michigan and have been picking his brain on designing a system for us. This isn't set in stone yet but we are leaning toward a 340 watt solar panel mounted on the davits and run through a Midnite Solar 30 amp MPPT charge controller, the marine version. All of the lighting fixtures in the boat are being replaced with LED which again are sitting in a box. We will be changing all of the nav lights to LED as well.
I do have a couple of questions I could use your help with. I'm wondering where to install the Pro Charger and ACR. I'm thinking under the nav station and running the charge wiring to the house battery side of the battery switch and the ACR charge wiring to the start battery, again at the battery switch. I also want to install a terminal fuse block on the positive terminal of the house bank but I'm not sure what amperage it should be. Ideas?
Anyway I'd love to hear any ideas you all might have with our plan and if you see anywhere that I need to rethink the plan.
Thanks in advance.
340 watts of solar sitting on the davits seems big to me. Make sure you still egress of the stern using your ladder!
Don't forget to check that the wire/cable sizes are big enough to minimize voltage drop in the complete system.
Last year I did an electrical upgrade similar to what you're describing on my 1987 (without Solar). There's a write up of my project with photos and schematic in the Tech WIKI if interested.
Dave,
Our davit system is rather unique and I haven't seen one like it anywhere online, sorry I don't have pictures of it and there is no manufactures name on it. The cross bars that go between them are pretty far aft but we were going to make a cardboard mock-up before ordering the panel just to make sure it fits the way we would like. Installing the panel on the bimini is another thought but we haven't decided exactly what we are ultimately going to do. I swear my friend that is the solar guru would hang a nuclear power plant off the back of the boat if I let him. I would like to go as big as I can mostly to run the refrigeration (not yet installed).
Jon,
If I remember correctly Blue Sea has a guide on their sight that lists the proper wire sizes. We will be only using marine grade wire and connectors throughout this project as well. The one thing I'd like to find is a good crimping tool for the cables. Main Sail covers the subject of crimping tools but I need something a bit more affordable but will still do a quality job. I figure I'll be making up a number of cables along the way because I can't stand wiring that looks like a mess of spaghetti.
Any thoughts on the correct size fusing for the house batteries?
You really should study Jon's wiring diagram or mine or others on the site. They all list the fusing info.
Thanks Noah,
I'll go back through it and take a closer look. I've read a lot of the electrical 101 and as I posted on another thread it's a gold mine. There is so much information there it can be easy to overlook something when I'm focusing on looking up a specific topic.
I used a 250A mrbf fuse on the house bank and reserve battery. I had a long thread going at the time to address this and many other questions. There should be a link to it in my write-up.
Here is a link to an old posting of my wiring diagram. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4546.msg56771.html#msg56771
Mas,
I also will be starting my rewire project in the next few months & am in the process of reviewing the material on this site. Jon W has an excellent write up & I followed his post on this forum, great reading material & a very detailed listing of everything he used. I also purchased a 40 amp Sterling battery charger from Mainsail & mounted it under the Nav Station, have yet to install & mount the remote for it. I followed the pics Jon W had for the mounting location & used Weld Mounts because my Nav locker has an AC unit making getting a through bolt difficult. I am going to make a detailed plan then execute using the info/advice posted on this site very closely. I am lucky that the company I work for has the large crimping tools that I will borrow, plan to make the cables myself after I measure twice so I only have to cut once. I have already purchased the Ancor wire & connectors from Amazon, not cheap but the best price found.
Forgot about crimping tools.
For 10 AWG and smaller wire I purchased a racheting crimper from Ken Kloeber. For 8 to 1 AWG I purchased a Greenlee K series from Zoro.com.
Quote from: Mas Tequila on January 15, 2017, 12:28:15 PM
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A new Balmar add a battery switch and ACR are new and still in the package which I will be adding this spring. ............................
Rewire the alternator and Pro Charge directly to the house bank. ............
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I'm wondering where to install the Pro Charger and ACR. I'm thinking under the nav station and running the charge wiring to the house battery side of the battery switch and the ACR charge wiring to the start battery, again at the battery switch.
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Thanks for the kind words on the other thread.
I haven't ever heard of a Balmar add-a-battery switch, only a Blue Sea one. You may have seen this:
AGM Battery Issues and the Blue Seas Dual Circuit Switch (from Maine Sail) "DARN AGM Batteries"
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=848465&highlight=darn%20agm (http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=848465&highlight=darn%20agm)
The DCP switch is not very good for sailboats, especially how you're planning to set up your battery banks.
Don't forget to run the regulator sense wire to the house bank.
I put my combiner on the starboard side just forward of the galley and connected directly to the PDP of the house bank and ran a wire to the reserve bank. While your suggestion is essentially the same place electrically (i.e., different ends of the same wire), I'm not sure I will ever understand the repeated fascination of connecting ACRs combiners to the back of the switches (you're not the first one who asked :D). If you put it on the starboard sde, your house bank is right there and all you have to do is run a single wire aft to your reserve bank. Plus, there is more available "real estate" over on the starboard side, while port side has all that wiring running up & down. :D
Thank you Stu,
You are right the add-a-battery is a Blue Sea. Apparently I wasn't paying attention to my typing. The reason I posted this was to see if any of you find anything that stands out as a major error in our planning. I like the idea of installing the ACR on the starboard side which makes more sense and it's out of the way. The PO included all of the manuals for the alternator and regulator and I have looked them over but I will be reviewing them carefully. One thing I'm not comfortable with is the regulator was installed just under the top step which doesn't protect it very well from water that can drip down the steps. I was thinking I would relocate it inside the access door in the head.
When I installed the new VHF and stereo I did see a couple of wire nuts behind the panel and some spade connectors. I will be replacing the spade connectors with ring terminals and remove any wire nuts.
I really want to thank all of you that have gone to such trouble writing all of the articles on our boat systems. What a fantastic resource and I do reference them often. Sometimes I get lost in all the information and all of the great ideas.
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I have already purchased the Ancor wire & connectors from Amazon, not cheap but the best price found.
Guys! I love to save you money, but I can't unless you email me offline for anything electrical.
You pay through the nostril for Ancor terminals online and besides, Ancor terminals are inferior to FTZ brand anyway.
-ken
Mas- my Balmer 614 regulator is installed on the head/sink door screwed directly ON the inside surface of the wood door.
Ken,
I am starting to put together a list of items I will need for my rewire project, I will contact you when I have it together. I was under the impression Ancor was the way to go, was not aware FTZ brand were better. What about the Ancor wire, I already purchased most of what I need but it can always be returned, unless it has been too long. I'll check & let you know. I might also be in the market for a crimping tool for smaller wires, say #10 & below. So much for the buying frenzy of a new owner.
I spent most of the night until the early morning hours reading again through the electrical tech notes and the tech wiki. I know I've already said this but once again I want to thank you all for the hard work you have put into compiling all this information.
Jon,
What a great write up, schematic and parts list. Your system is so close to what I'm looking to do I feel like I could almost order what I need right off of your list.
Stu,
Thank you so much for the link about the dual circuit switch. The add a battery kit came still in the package with the boat and I never really thought about the downside of what would happen if my house bank went down and I switched to "combine". I tended to think that if my reserve battery went down I could use the house bank which doesn't make any sense. The loads are on the house side so if I get forgetful or a little spendy on my electrical budget I'm going to pull down the house side down not the reserve. Duh. Thanks again from saving me from making a big mistake.
Having the boat on the hard and under shrink wrap here in northern Michigan is such a pain. My dining room is starting to look like a West Marine store with all of the goodies laying around. Sure could use a break in the weather so I can get back on board and get to work.
Ken,
When I get closer to getting started on this project I'll drop you an email for supplies. The winches still look great, unfortunately they are still sitting on my dining room table.
Quote from: Jon W on January 15, 2017, 10:35:46 PM
Forgot about crimping tools.
For 10 AWG and smaller wire I purchased a racheting crimper from Ken Kloeber. For 8 to 1 AWG I purchased a Greenlee K series from Zoro.com.
Jon,
I am confused as to why you would opt for the Greenlee KO5 1GL, which is usually $200.00 or more, over the FTZ battery lug crimp tool. I know of no better value out there than the FTZ 94284 tool. It is as close as it comes to the genuine gold standard AMP Rota-Crimp tools, but cost about 12X as much as the FTZ. The FTZ also does 6GA to 4/0.... More range, stronger crimps and for less money..
Guys also please be aware that the Chinese have knocked off the Greenlee K series tools and the dies are grossly mismarked and incorrect. They are often sold as the genuine Greenlee, same color and everything, when they are not a real Greenlee.
Ed,
Let me back up a bit. Don't get me wrong, Ancor terminals are ok -- you won't go wrong if you use them. They're not "inferior" per-se, I just think that they are very marginally inferior to the FTZ terminals. And my distributor charges more, by far, WHOLESALE for the Ancor, then I can offer the FTZ much more reasonably RETAIL. Plus Ancor doesn't offer power lugs, and its starter lugs are definitely lower quality (JTSO) than FTZ's. So I see no reason to even think about using Ancor. Paying over $1 each online (10-12 x #8 rings) is highway robbery.
Now, ancor wire and pacer, etc., wire all meet the same UL standard, and they are comparable. However I just personally like Ancor better (I think it may be insulation is ever so slightly more flexible -- I can't put my finger on it.) So, I use Ancor wire nearly exclusively *(unfortunately there's some very common ABYC color standards that Ancor simply (stupidly?) doesn't manufacture.) I've bitched about that but it's onto deaf ears.
Just shoot me an email when you know.
cheers
ken
Quote from: Ekutney on January 16, 2017, 01:32:03 PM
Ken,
I am starting to put together a list of items I will need for my rewire project, I will contact you when I have it together. I was under the impression Ancor was the way to go, was not aware FTZ brand were better. What about the Ancor wire, I already purchased most of what I need but it can always be returned, unless it has been too long. I'll check & let you know. I might also be in the market for a crimping tool for smaller wires, say #10 & below. So much for the buying frenzy of a new owner.
Mas tequila - Thanks for the feedback. My goal was to put a complete project plan together to help the next person. There's also a link in the write up to a posting with more detail.
Mainesail - In July I posted looking for suggestions on a tool to crimp 8 AWG to 1 AWG. The FTZ, Roto Crimp, and Greenlee k05 were recommended. The Roto Crimp cost too much for a occasional user, the FTZ didn't crimp 8 AWG, so I went with Greenlee. The tool is stamped made in Germany, and has worked great.
Ed, follow up.
I see that Ancor has again changed it's AHS terminal crimper. They went from the prior type that looks like the 22-10 awg FTZ model that MaineSail has, to a multi-die "ergonomic" model w/ increased leverage. Maybe Rod will see this and chime in w/ thoughts?
Ken