on my hull 99, 1986, the PO swapped out the original Signet equipment with some Raymarine but left off a speed instrument. the garmen chartplotter is way out of support by garmin and i'd like to get something i can update for depth, especially. so i was thinking of the garmin 741. thoughts on good/bad? or what would you change your chartplotter to?
As long as you're looking at the major companies, I think the decision is a personal preference. I went back and forth between Raymarine, B&G, Furuno, Garmin. In the end I went with Raymarine - eS98 chartplotter with C-Map 4D charts mounted at the Nav Station, 24NM Quantum radar (wired not wireless), CHIRP Downvision, and i70 system pack (includes itc-5 network converter, wind transducer, depth/speed/temp transducer, and i70 multi function display), plus each box came with most network cables and fittings needed.
Here's something worth considering... see Mainesail's reply..
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=8183.0
I agree with Jon. Very much a personal choice. I went with B&G Zeus and Triton for all (with Simrad autopilot and 4G Radar) and am happy. When I did my homework 2+ years ago, Raymarine had some customer service issues. It may be different now that Flir bought them.
Early yet but my experience to date -
The installation of the Raymarine components was straightforward. Connecting them together with the SeaTalkng network was surprisingly simple. I downloaded the most current version of all software from the Raymarine website for free. Loaded it into the chartplotter. This brought all devices up to the same version. Turned everything on and voila, charts, wind speed and direction, radar. The new Quantum is Raymarine's version of 4G.
So far no problems,and questions have been answered by the Tech Service correctly the 1st time. I will be using a wireless I-pad or Samsung galaxy tab A under the dodger in the cockpit via a Raymarine control app.
thanks to all! going out to west marine, for black friday.
also, if you bought the garmin 741, did you do the thru hull?
Won't opine on makes or models, but last year I replaced the factory standard electronics, and one really nice benefit is replacing five screens, four of which were at eye-level, with one multi-functional display at chest level. Way better visibility.
Quote from: anaisdog on November 25, 2016, 06:00:24 AM
thanks to all! going out to west marine, for black friday.
becki did you get a BF deal?
ken
no Ken, I did not buy anything. i'm so confused as to what is out there. garmin, on their web site, offers the 741xs for 899, as of this morning. my cousin, who owns a power boat store said he can get me that for 1100. huh? he says things change really fast. and i'm thinking of doing tablet and laptop instead of gps at all. what do you suggest?
Wow, that's like asking should you have white meat or dark meat? Personal appeal. Garmin is good stuff from all my past (handheld) experience. That said, I'm a high believer in simpler is better. I've seen many who MUST have the newest and best electronics and hardly use them (or need them) for what/how they sail. The owners of the Bene 36.7 I crewed on had to upgrade to a Ray gps/chartplotter/WiFi/mic-key mouse/top of the line system.
You couldn't even set a weather mark unless you knew its lat/lon. Like, project a waypoint 2nm out from my current position on the line, at 270 deg bearing. NOT. It was a major hurange to try to use it in any practical manner -- but the other crew person who sold them on getting it would wet his pants every time he hooked to the the Wifi with his iPhone and could view the useless chartplotter screen. Sure, he could also "see" all the instruments on his phone (or might just pick his head up and look at the displays. d'oh.)
Obviously if you want all instruments integrated, you can't do that with just a gps on a pad.
My question was more toward if you found a good price (or could get you a better one) on whatever manufacturer you were shopping for -- but sounds like you're undecided.
Also just a note that you probably already know -- if trying to use navigation on an iPad, only the cell versions have a true gps receiver (which is integrated w/ the cell phone chip.) The WiFi versions only do not.
ken
But... If you had a iPhone And an iPad you could connect the two by using its built-in Bluetooth "hotspot" feature and get GPS to the non-cell equipped iPad through your phone.
Noah,
Not according to what I've read. Have you confirmed this with an iphone/ipad? (I don't have either to try it.)
I ass/u/med that a gps location wasn't passed via wifi, only with a physical cable (an external gps "reporting" to a laptop usb port.)
Reports I see are that actual gps isn't passed from the phone to the pad -- only by running the AirLocation app on both, but the phone isn't available to "other" ipad apps (like marine nav.)
https://www.wired.com/2011/04/airlocation-sends-gps-data-from-iphone-to-ipadi/What I surmise from that, is that the raw gps data isn't actually passed to the pad and available to use -- only the "map location" Kinda like taking a screen clip of a map on a GPS and emailing a PDF it to your laptop and opening it in Adobe. You don't get the gps data to use in other PC software. At least that's what I read between the lines in the above as to how the app works, not having personally tried it.
side note -- if you have a cell ipad, it isn't necessary to have a cell plan to take advantage of some features. We know it takes a minute for gps to lock onto satellites -- so how does an ipad produce an 'instant' location? by using the cell chip (even w/o a cell plan) to triangulate towers for an initial (approximate) location or by the wifi "recognizing" a WiFi network location (doesn't work so well with MiFis traveling down the highway in a vehicle LOL!)
ken
Quote from: Noah on November 29, 2016, 08:33:02 PM
But... If you had a iPhone And an iPad you could connect the two by using its built-in Bluetooth "hotspot" feature and get GPS to the non-cell equipped iPad through your phone.
PS, what I should add (you mentioned both) is that I haven't read anything about whether passing GPS data via Bluetooth works -- only read about using the iPhone personal hotspot (which is WiFi.)
kk
You may be right about GPS functionality not passing through while tethered either with wi-fi or bluetooth. I haven't needed that function as I have dedicated/integrated nav gear, so haven't tried it. Another option may be using a GPS device like Garmin's Glo Bluetooth to push GPS to the iPad. I only use my iPad for surfing while tethered to my phone and as another portable nav screen/controller connected via wi-fi to my NEEMA 2000 network and my B&G nav gear.
Quote from: Noah on November 29, 2016, 11:29:29 PM
You may be right about GPS functionality not passing through while tethered either with wi-fi or bluetooth. I haven't needed that function as I have dedicated/integrated nav gear, so haven't tried it. Another option may be using a GPS device like Garmin's Glo Bluetooth to push GPS to the iPad. I only use my iPad for surfing while tethered to my phone and as another portable nav screen/controller connected via wi-fi to my NEEMA 2000 network and my B&G nav gear.
but, again (I BELIEVE anyway,) that only operates thru the use of the Garmin app and buying its blue chart system, not actually passing "raw" gps data to a mobile device so that it is available to any app or software to use.
That could be the case that the Glo only interfaces with Garmin gear. I should probably stay out of this one as I may be just muddying the water here for Becky--who says she is already confused! Whatever you get make sure it is both waterproof and visiable in bright sun too.
Quote from: anaisdog on November 29, 2016, 03:12:00 PM
no Ken, I did not buy anything. i'm so confused as to what is out there. garmin, on their web site, offers the 741xs for 899, as of this morning. my cousin, who owns a power boat store said he can get me that for 1100. huh? he says things change really fast. and i'm thinking of doing tablet and laptop instead of gps at all. what do you suggest?
If you can wait until spring the new Garmin 72
2/74
2 and now a 9" version the 94
2 series will be out. Garmin has dramatically dropped the pricing on these new 7XX & 9XX units and street pricing should be quite good. By that time I suspect the 741 series will be at give away pricing. Heck I just sold a customer a 2 brand new Garmin 8212 "Glass Helm" units (not refurbished but brand spanking new) for $1495.00 each. These are $4999.00 MFD's that he saved $7000.00 on... This was a one day Garmin dealer blast and word is they moved through thousands of units in approx 5 - 6 hours. A few customers failed to get back to me in a timely manner, and by the time they did all the units were gone. I began emailing my customers, who I thought would be interested, as 6:15 am and by 11:30am they were gone.
I would fully expect to see the 741's in the $599.00 +/- range once the 742 & 942's hit the street.
If you are interested in radar the new 18" Garmin Fantom domes are also hitting the street this spring. They will eclipse any current radar out there except perhaps for the current Furuno, but it does some things even better than Furuno.
Note how moving targets are displayed compared to still targets..
(http://www.panbo.com/images16/Garmin_Fantom_18_and_24_radar_screen_w_Motionscope_aPanbo.jpg)
My customers have been the happiest with Garmin equipment year over year. I also have less warranty issues with Garmin but none of them are perfect. Some are much worse than others in the QC & software glitch departments. It got to a point, two years ago, where I stopped installing one particular brand unless the customer supplied it.
how do i know what "network" i have on board, to see what I can use? which transducer are you recommending for your customers, with the new garmins? would i be able to buy a 741 from you, or would i have to get it from garmin. the really confusing thing, for me, since i've never done this before, is what else I need to buy with it. like I don't have a working wind instrument right now. also, if you goto the garmin.com and click on their "marine brochure" they don't even list the 741 any longer but if you search on the site, you can buy it from them. *that* to me is confusing.
any help would be appreciated and if you want to take this offline, i'm at anaisdog@yahoo.com
Quote from: anaisdog on November 30, 2016, 06:26:43 AM
how do i know what "network" i have on board, to see what I can use?
You likely don't have any "network" other than perhaps a old Sea Talk 1. You would be moving to NMEA 2000
Quote from: anaisdog on November 30, 2016, 06:26:43 AMwhich transducer are you recommending for your customers, with the new garmins?
It all depends upon what the customer wants. Most sailors don't really care about down vu or fish finding transducers so a standard depth/speed/temp transducer works fine. Others may opt for ultrasonic speed or have other desires for depth etc. so every job is different.
Quote from: anaisdog on November 30, 2016, 06:26:43 AMwould i be able to buy a 741 from you, or would i have to get it from garmin.
You could buy it through me, but I am not the "
cheap guy" on the block and I don't go looking for internet type sales of electronics, simply not worth it for the non-existent margins on electronics. There are plenty of internet Garmin dealers out there willing to make 3%, just make sure they are a legit Garmin dealer otherwise warranty stuff will be a nightmare. Definitely avoid eBay..
Garmin also has strictly enforced MAP pricing for dealers on certain items, but with the 741 going out of production, within weeks, it no longer falls under MAP restrictions. Any price below about $840.00 right now on a 741XS (you really don't need the XS features unless you want them) should be a red flag. Still I would strongly urge waiting for the 742 series as it has shaved some serious cost and given better performance. It is always best to buy the most current electronics as this yields the longest serviceable life.
Quote from: anaisdog on November 30, 2016, 06:26:43 AMthe really confusing thing, for me, since i've never done this before, is what else I need to buy with it.
So who is going to install it? If you are having trouble figuring out what you need or want you can certainly get yourself into trouble when it comes time to do the install.. While an N2K system is much easier to install than an older NMEA 0183 it can still be tricky. I fix DIY N2K install errors with pretty frequent regularity. In some cases these installation errors can take out equipment, damage boards etc. and this type of damage is not covered by warranty.
Quote from: anaisdog on November 30, 2016, 06:26:43 AMlike I don't have a working wind instrument right now. also, if you goto the garmin.com and click on their "marine brochure" they don't even list the 741 any longer but if you search on the site, you can buy it from them. *that* to me is confusing.
Again the 741 series is about to be discontinued so if this is a current brochure there is good reason Garmin removed it. You don't buy MFD's based on a brochure anyway. You really need to get into the unit specs & manual which will be on the units web page. Garmin still shows the 741 on the site and this is where you would look at it and research it.. You'll need to define what you want/need then go find the product that delivers that or that can work with your desired accessories such as depth, wind, AIS, speed, engine instrumentation, iPad etc. etc. etc...
then I'm sure I have no network
if the 741 is discontinued, for how long will I be able to get chart updates? that's the issue with the really old one that i have, i can't get updates. and I can't find any way to ask Garmin themselves.
I have a guy. then another guy. one of them will do it, for pay, of course. thanks!
becki
Have you called garmin?
Since you admittedly don't know what to buy (or maybe even what you "want" vs. "need" or what to buy if you did) I would rely on a local authorized garmin rep/installer who can take care of the complete job and guide you. This isn't dollar store vs walmart price check purchase. Otherwise you may end up in real trouble. yeah, it costs, welcome to (especially old) boat ownership and the trial and tribulations of upgrading an old vessel. I'm not sure you've defined exactly what your total needs are (or at least I don't recall seeing it -- maybe restate that here?) Garmin is fairly tightly controlled as to authorized reps and what dealers they will even sell to -- besides the obvious reasons, it also doesn't want stuff installed willy nilly and then blasted across the iNet because it "doesn't work," or "doesn't do what its supposed to" (but what was chosen/installed was never intended to) and then no dealer service available.
If you'd have zeroed in on some pc of equipment and need to simply buy something I'd say that's a way different story -- shop and shop and caveat emptor. I've decided a years ago what I'm qualified to do and what not to do (or alternately what to have someone do once, watch/learn and then do myself.)
Quote from: anaisdog on December 01, 2016, 06:09:16 AM
then I'm sure I have no network
if the 741 is discontinued, for how long will I be able to get chart updates? that's the issue with the really old one that i have, i can't get updates. and I can't find any way to ask Garmin themselves.
I have a guy. then another guy. one of them will do it, for pay, of course. thanks!
becki did you see the B&G Zeus 8 up for sale on the C30 forum? Not sexy new, but a lot less bucks.
-k
I've been offered a Garmin 741xs + GMR 18HD Radar for: $1,562.49 from West Marine.
I guess not a bad price...
No Ken, I have not called Garmin. I went to their site -> contact us and couldn't figure out how to contact them.
Quote from: anaisdog on December 04, 2016, 07:06:38 AM
No Ken, I have not called Garmin. I went to their site -> contact us and couldn't figure out how to contact them.
Sounds like you need some serious handholding. WIll cost $$$$
Try these guys.
http://www.k2marinesystems.com/contact-us
i finally figure it out, sent garmin a note. found the number too
Quote from: Capt.Jim on December 02, 2016, 11:09:56 PM
I've been offered a Garmin 741xs + GMR 18HD Radar for: $1,562.49 from West Marine.
I guess not a bad price...
While that is a good price "today" both the GMR-18HD and 741XS are both slated to be discontinued soon. The prices will likely get much better within a few weeks to months..
With the Fantom domes due out in about 6-8 weeks, with INCREDIBLE performance gains over the GMR-18HD, you may want to seriously consider a Fantom. In fact my own GMR-18HD will not be going back on the boat come spring.
mainesail - how long will i be able to get updates, from garmin, for charts, after the 741 is discontinued? thanks
Garmin now uses standard format SD or microSD cards in their MFD's and hand held units.. Until the SD format goed the way of the Dinosaur you should be fine.
It was the old proprietary G-Charts they stopped supporting. Keep in mind that chart updates are not free but they should be downloadable to a compatible microSD format card for a long while.
That said it is not necessarily the charts you should be worried about it is the serviceable lifetime of the unit. These devices are repaired these days at the PC board level, not the component level. When parts such as screens, PC boards etc. begin to run out the device is now no longer even repairable.
On popular units parts can run out in two years or less from the date of discontinuation. I have had many, many customers who thought they were getting a good deal get burned by this.
For example the ST4000+ autopilot control heads were still in stock and being sold NOS (new old stock) at the same time Raymarine could no longer even repair them. Raymarine in some cases was actually buying back units from dealers to satisfy warranty claims. Some of the ST-60 models, same thing. A few of the Garmin 3200 series models suffered the same fate as well as some of the hand held units. While you can always get lucky, and never have an issue, you also may not be so lucky.
As a dealer/installer it is a pretty rare occasion when I suggest an owner buy a refurb or discontinued product because I am all too well aware of the serviceable lifetime problem we face in the electronics industry today. If I had to guess on the 741 series I would shoot at 3 years +/- as the outset of how long they will continue to be repairable.
good to know. i think i'll stick with the ipad, some software, and the unsupported garmin as a backup. thanks for all the info.
Quote from: mainesail on December 04, 2016, 08:29:07 AM
Quote from: Capt.Jim on December 02, 2016, 11:09:56 PM
I've been offered a Garmin 741xs + GMR 18HD Radar for: $1,562.49 from West Marine.
I guess not a bad price...
While that is a good price "today" both the GMR-18HD and 741XS are both slated to be discontinued soon. The prices will likely get much better within a few weeks to months..
With the Fantom domes due out in about 6-8 weeks, with INCREDIBLE performance gains over the GMR-18HD, you may want to seriously consider a Fantom. In fact my own GMR-18HD will not be going back on the boat come spring.
I am sorry but I just realized I am an idiot! :clap
I ended up getting a Simrad NSS7 with Evo2/3G Radar combo together for $1,199.00...
They are still in the box sitting next to me at home.
There are lot of other stuff need to be done before the installation of my electronics.
Quote from: mainesail on December 04, 2016, 08:29:07 AM
Quote from: Capt.Jim on December 02, 2016, 11:09:56 PM
I've been offered a Garmin 741xs + GMR 18HD Radar for: $1,562.49 from West Marine.
I guess not a bad price...
While that is a good price "today" both the GMR-18HD and 741XS are both slated to be discontinued soon. The prices will likely get much better within a few weeks to months..
With the Fantom domes due out in about 6-8 weeks, with INCREDIBLE performance gains over the GMR-18HD, you may want to seriously consider a Fantom. In fact my own GMR-18HD will not be going back on the boat come spring.
What will be those improvements to make a BIG difference?
Since you need a speed transducer and it sounded like a wind instrument too... have you considered a Garmin bundle wireless wind speed direction, depth speed and water temp? Have a look at what I put on my boat last summer and the topic of getting it all work with a free chartplotter program for a tablet or PC.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9092.msg66283/topicseen.html#msg66283
interesting. any ideas are welcome. thanks