I have monitored and communicated with several people on the Sailnet email lists concerning a post describing a potential major problem with the way the raw water pump on the Universal M-35B is driven by an extension on the camshaft. Based upon communication with Universal by another member, the potential for the extension on the camshaft to shear involves engines manufactured up to the year 2000. This has already happened to at least two engines as reported on Sailnet.
There is a part which will address this problem, it is # 044497 water pump collar, and is available from Universal or one of their distributors, it is a $5 part. This part is easily installed by removing the raw water pump, inserting the collar around the camshaft extension and reinstalling the water pump. You will probably want a new gasket, it is part no. 302678.
I have not installed mine yet, but will this week.
Dick Beecham
Refuge
C34 - #1430
Rock Hall, MD
rbeecham@jersey.net
Had the same problem about a year ago. Repaired it with parts supplied from Westerbeke. Also, a friend of mine had a 99 36 ft Catalina. It only had 25 hrs. on the engine. I repaired it in January. Used the new collar on both.
That's interesting, how did you find out about the problem?
Dick Beecham
Refuge
C34 - #1430
Rock Hall, MD
rbeecham@jersey.net
After cranking the engine, I noticed I didn't have any water in the exhaust. It's the first thing I do after starting the engine.
I have a M35A engine. Does this have the same camshaft extention problem with the water pump.
Doug, I e-mailed Russ Hagan @westerbeke and he asked for the serial # of the engine and he sent me all of the parts and gaskets, including the collar that slips over the joint of the new camshaft.
Sorry Doug. I can't answer your question, but try
RHagan@westerbeke.com
Just include your engine serial number.
Norris’ suggestion works just fine.
I emailed the serial number of my engine and low and behold they sent me back the collar, a gasket, and the installation instructions. If anybody wants a copy of the instructions send me an email address.
Ray
Could you please send a copy to Mark Elkin, melkin@san.rr.com (Mark Elkin), our associate FAQ and projects webmaster?
Then he can post them on the website for all.
Thanks,
Stu
Found this on the C36 website:
IMPORTANT!
An important message for all Catalina 36 owners:
On November 7, 2002, I spoke personally with Gerry Douglas of Catalina Yachts. A problem was discovered by Westerbeke that concerns many M35B engines - a problem which could cause cam shaft failure.
Once the problem was discovered, Westerbeke/Universal came out with directions on how to check and how to add a 'cam sleeve' to the raw water pump to fix the problem. It's a relatively simple fix, and Westerbeke/Universal will sent owners of all M36B engines the cam sleeve and directions at no charge.
Unfortunately, it's not possible for Catalina to tell exactly which boats, by hull number, are affected. Therefore, Gerry Douglas asked that the Catalina 36 International Association help Catalina Yachts get this word out to Catalina owners with potentially affected engines.
Owners of all Catalinas with the M25XP or the M35B engines (this includes Catalina 28, 30, 320, 34, and 36) are asked to review the service bulletin (click on the graph image below) and check your boat engines to make sure a cam sleeve is in place behind the raw water pump. Steps on getting a cam sleeve (at no cost) from Westerbeke are in the service bulletin.
Further, for C36 owners, after you check you engine, would you please email the C36IA webmaster (dstovall@gci.net) and give (1) your hull number, (2) and whether the sleeve was found or was missing. If you discovered this problem after suffering engine damage, please let us know. The association will collect M35B information and post data on this website to assist other owners, and to assess the magnitude of the problem.
Both Catalina Yachts and your C36IA want to see this concern checked and corrected as quickly as possible.
- Phil Rojas
Commodore
Catalina 36 International Association
Universal/Westerbeke Service Bulletin 235
Problems with water pumps on the X25 and M35 engines may cause camshaft failure -
You can get to the site using the following:
http://www.catalina36.org/home.htm (http://www.catalina36.org/home.htm)
It includes the picture of the old and new parts.
Wheels of progress turn slow. Westerbeke knew about this in Sept of 2001. Hope no :mad:one burnt up an engine.
I have hull number 1554. My Engine number is YGO294E007. E007 was built July 2000. Hence hull numbers greater than mine should be okay.
I request that other owners log on and note their hull number and engine number to determine which hull numbers are affected.
Good idea, Hal. My hull is 1408 and motor is #116667D801.
My engine serial number is before the E001 date. However, when I took my water pump off, my cam shaft did already have the collar installed. The only way you can make sure is if you pull the pump off and take a look...
Roc-
Does anyone know the difference? I am 3000 miles from my boat but I took the serial number off the original sales agreement. If that number is correct, I have an "A" model and Westerbeke says that is unaffected by the bulletin. I have a 97 hull number 1345. You would think they would have been consistent in the engine models that they put in Catalinas close to my hull number. anyone know why and what the difference is???
The service bulletin was not totally clear on which 25XP models might have the missing sleeve. I pulled mine and it looked slightly different from drawings. The shaft extends slightly forward of a large collar that is held in position with a snap ring around the shaft. There does not appear to be any space for a sleeve for the collar unless it is very short. I cannot tell that from the drawing. If the new sleeve is just a peice that fits on the end of the shaft (effectly securing the slotted end) and rides on top of the snap ring, then I guess I could be missing the item. Any help from anyone who has actually replaed????? How long is the reinforcing sleeve? And does it just sit on the end of the shaft with the pump holding it in place??
I have hull #1386, the S/V Carte Blanche, with a W/U M-35. I'm sure it's the A and not B model. I experienced the cam failure and would strongly suggest that preventive maintenance be done as the engine must be opened to replace the cam shaft once failure occurs. The replacement is a total fix and the engine runs every bit as good as it ever did but the downtime should be avoided. We rigged a free standing JABSCO electric water pump inside the engine compartment to handle temporary duties until we could get to a shipyard and we had full use of the Carte Blanche. This pump will now serve as a spare water pump or emergency bilge pump depending on the hose configuration used. Overall the W/U M35 has been a solid performer and is well suited to C-34.
Here is my original e mail and their response. Judging from Garys hull number, I believe his is the B model with the 35 horse power...although his post has me alittle concerned that the A model might be susceptable to the failure.
Randy,
Your unit is not affected by this service bulletin. You have an A series model and the bulletin is for the B series model.
Russ
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Thies
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:02 AM
To: RHagan@westerbeke.com
Subject: cam shaft issue
Hello,
I recently read several postings on the Catalina 34 website referring to a cam shaft collar that may be necessary on some Universal Engines. Since I am many miles from my boat I can't check it, but I do have the original sales agreement with the numbers. The boat is a Catalina 34, 1997 Hull number 1345J697, the engine is the Model M35AC Serial Number 929881-D606. Is there a way to tell if this model is susceptable to the cam shaft failure? Thank you.
Randy Thies
If you can't get to your boat in the winter months to determine the engine serial number, give Catalina a call as they record the hull number and engine number in their master book. As long as you haven't repowered since the boat was built you should have the correct number.
Hull # 1515
Engine OXW8828 E001
Naked shaft. :(
In my previous post I forgot to mention my engine number. As I said in my earlier post, it did have the "naked shaft" and I got the part(s) from Westerbeke and installed it. Catalina was very helpful in confirming it for me--the engine number is
WW2564D904
Again, it is hull number 1471.
Hull 1373, M35BC engine ser #nnnnnD701, a 1997 boat, has the problem of the missing collar. While reporting this to Westerbeke's rep, Bob Pisani??, the topic of a slowly leaking water pump came up. The three rectangular holes are to let seawater that seeps by the seal to exit rather than make its way into the engine. Any seepage or leakage must be attended to without significant delay. Apparently, the leakage indicates the seal has failed and puts the pump shaft at risk of corrosion, which can result in its seizing. Of course, I've got that problem too so I'll replace the seal. Or one can buy a new pump for $234 or so.
Mike Roy
Cat's Paw
1373
I know this is a very old thread, but the topic will never go away, especially for owners who purchase used boats of this vintage.
I have hull #1535 and could not see my motor serial number or date code due to water heater hoses being in the way. Seeing that #1515 did not have the reinforcing collar made me nervous, so I pulled off my Sherwood G908 pump while changing out the impellar today. I confirmed that it DOES have the reinforcing collar.
Later I was able to push the hoses aside and get a phone picture of the serial number (after about 12 pictures that were too out of focus). My date code is E004, so that's consistent with the tech bulletin pinning the problem on motors prior to E001.
I think Roc reported that his #1477/pre-E001 motor did have the collar, so that adds some potential confusion. For those trying to deduce whether their boats are "safe" from the serial number, it is possible that collars were added to older boats by a prior owner. (This could have even happened with my own boat.) Don't go assuming that your boat is safe because it's newer than one that reported having the collar. The only way to be sure is to check for yourself, which is easily done when doing a routine impellar change.
I think the only way to confirm is to pull the pump and actually look to see if the collar is installed. Just to make sure, and not go by the serial number. It's not hard to pull the pump and check it out. As mentioned, my engine did have the collar.
Understand that the necessity to add the reinforcing is because of the Sherwood pump busting the fork on the camshaft. The obvious other route, whether you already have or need to add a collar, is GET RID OF the damn crappy pump that's manufactured of material (i.e, IRON) that should not be used in a marine environment, and that Westerbeke is PROUD to own 100% of the rights to, and is PROUD as well to install on its marine engine products.
If you sense an attitude, I gleefully admit it.
k
Quote from: KWKloeber on April 09, 2018, 07:11:02 PM
Understand that the necessity to add the reinforcing is because of the Sherwood pump busting the fork on the camshaft. The obvious other route, whether you already have or need to add a collar, is GET RID OF the damn crappy pump that's manufactured of material (i.e, IRON) that should not be used in a marine environment, and that Westerbeke is PROUD to own 100% of the rights to, and is PROUD as well to install on its marine engine products.
If you sense an attitude, I gleefully admit it.
k
I've read all the comments elsewhere and am aware of the design deficiencies. My Sherwood pump is working well, no leaks through the weep holes, no significant corrosion apparent on the housing, and the previous owner left me with three perfectly good #200175 impeller kits. I've chosen to use up the impeller kits and defer replacement of the pump as long as it continues to work well.
When I'm ready to replace the pump, I'll buy the one you're selling.
(That wasn't a sales pitch — the M-908 can be found online way cheaper @ dealer cost. :shock: :shock: Of course w/o support and stud install kit. And of course one can install a modded M-16 pump which is doubly way cheaper.) k
Guys : There was a full page ALERT add put in the Mainsheet as well as articles in Practical Sailor on the Westerbeke fix for the M35B (35hp) and M25XPB (26hp) engines.
I'm sure that you can go to Westerbeke and get a copy of that Service Bulletin!!!
A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on April 10, 2018, 01:56:23 PM
I'm sure that you can go to Westerbeke and get a copy of that Service Bulletin!!!
NO need to. All SBs are on the wiki, in searchable format to boot!
-:)