Catalina had a video playing at the Annapolis Boat Show of the concept for the new Catalina 425. It looks to be a significant departure for the company from past styling. Only one window above deck. Three rectangular windows below decks. Self-tacking jib with option for tracks for an overlapping headsail. Twin wheels so similar to the 400 in that respect. Other features looked similar to the "5" series boats.
Wow, we just say the Catalina 425 at the Toronto Boat show this week. Lovely boat, with some amazing nice features. Didn't realize that it was already a year old in he making (based on this earlier post and some Google searching).
Just curious what other think about it (other than the price)? We've been playing around with the idea of perhaps getting more room, with our kids increasing in size (one's starting to scrap the ceiling with his head). We we initially looking at the C-42, 3 cabin centre-line, which we also like, but is hard to find.
Quote from: Fred Koehlmann on January 25, 2017, 10:23:01 AM
.......................
.......................,
We we initially looking at the C-42, 3 cabin centre-line, which we also like, but is hard to find.
Good call, Fred. That was the best layout they ever made for that boat. The brochure on the CY website (under the Archived Brochure tab) has all three or four they built.
I too saw the C425 at the Toronto Boat Show. Very nice looking boat. Comments from my recollection(all the way from yesterday!):
Port side flexible cabin with the access from the cockpit through a giant sized lazerette is excellent.
Large hatch on the transom provides great stowage for life rafts or other supplies. It also provides a great space to crawl into for maintenance access.
The absence of a towrail is notable. I think toerails are great but I noted from the Sail magazine video posted on the C425 that Gerry deliberately deleted it to save weight.
There is a notable bowsprit for the anchor that would also provide great mounting for the tack of an asymmetrical spinnaker. The bowsprit is far longer than anything I've noticed on other Catalinas. I assume it is included in the LOA measurement.
Headroom is amazing. 6'9"? Multiple overhead flush hatches I the salon provide good light and presumably excellent ventilation.
I'm not a fan of the split seating on the stbd side with a games table / nav table between two seats. In my view, that eliminates a "snoozing area" for those days when rain, cold or heat keep you out of the cockpit.
The V berth is set up to sleep with your head is forward. I think it would be cozy for two to sleep that way. Although it requires some acrobatics, I like sleeping feet forward which gives everyone more room. Also, there is nothing better than a nice gentle midnight breeze blowing on your face from the forward hatch.
All tankage appears to be low and near the centre of the boat based on my limited inspection during the show.
Self tacking jib doesn't excite me but I could likely get used to it. I'm not 100% sold on furling mains either.
The forward lounging area looks ok on the video but I'm not sure where one would stow the cushions while under way, when it rains or when away from the boat for the week. Perhaps they are very securely fitted and dry very quickly. I should have asked about that.
Galley looks excellent with two refrigerators / freezers.
Stbd side cockpit seat folds out to provide and expanded area where you could sleep in good weather.
The pushpit rail extends all the way forward to the boarding gates before giving way to conventional wire lifelines.
The C425 was miles ahead of the Beneteau 41.1 sitting next to it.
The Hanse 415 on display at the show impressed me. I've never been a big fan of Hanse interiors but I liked this one. It sold on the first day of the show.
I still love our C34 and we are definitely not in the market for another boat! :D
I went through the 425 at the Chicago show a couple weeks ago. Here are a few random impressions:
1) It felt like a 7/8th's scale 445 on the inside.
2) The absence of the aluminum toe rail is a plus in my book, since it likely means fewer holes in the deck/hull for water intrusion.
3) The cabin finishings are still very much recognizable as Catalina and distinct from the Euro boats also at the show (Bene, Jeanneau, Hanse, etc.).
4) The stern scoop is small for my tastes, both aesthetically and functionally.
5) Standard self-tacking jib and in-mast furling main are pluses for my (typically) lazy sailing.
6) Foredeck sun pad and starboard cockpit bench fold-out pad are firsts on a Catalina (as far as I'm aware)
7) Love the twin aft cabins, particularly since we're a family of 5. I also like this layout on the C42 as mentioned above.
Yeah but will it do this:
https://youtu.be/GLobesQDSAU
Or this:
https://youtu.be/fo0iVKTJYAg
Vandee Globe Challenge single-handed round the world racers. 1st and 2nd place.
:shock: LOL!
I just reviewed the specs from the CY website. Interesting boat. When the 375 first came out we went to the Oakland boat show and did a photographic essay on it. For those of you who have seen this boat, did you take any pictures? Wanna share? :D
"Common rail diesel" 57 HP Yanmar. IIRC, common rail is newer diesel engine technology, which I think means it needs electricity to continue to operate, unlike our naturally aspirated old clunker Universals. Did I get this right?
I think so. It is also suppose to be more fuel efficient and burn cleaner.
Paul
In general, it simplifies the high pressure fuel pump but relies on a computer and sensor to meter fuel and activate the injectors. Ok for trucks but Give me simple and stupid
I agree.
This is how they work:
On diesel engines, it features a high-pressure (over 1,000 bar or 100 MPa or 15,000 psi) fuel rail feeding individual solenoid valves, as opposed to a low-pressure fuel pump feeding unit injectors (or pump nozzles).
Modern common rail systems, whilst working on the same principle, are governed by an engine control unit (ECU) which opens each injector electrically rather than mechanically.
From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail)
I sure like KISS.
They are also more expensive from my reading about the new engines.
Paul
It's all about emissions. The manufacturers design the engine for their largest consumers, who unfortunately are not sailboaters. In the future you're going to have to keep spare computers, crank sensors, and diagnostic readers on board if you want to leave home.
When I took Nigel Calder's diesel engine class his advise for do it yourself types for working on common rail fuel systems was simple. Don't do it, not ever. The worry was the because they operate at such higher pressures the old mechanical injection systems that the consequences of doing something wrong can be quite severe and possibly dangerous.
That advice runs contrary to the general ethos of most people who frequent this board.
On the plus side, the common rail engines do run remarkably quietly. I wish we could get the best of both worlds some how.
Quote from: Braxton on January 26, 2017, 07:17:51 PM
1. That advice runs contrary to the general ethos of most people who frequent this board.
2. On the plus side, the common rail engines do run remarkably quietly. I wish we could get the best of both worlds some how.
1. Not necessarily, Braxton. Seems we are a bunch of DIY-ers, and if you can't work on a common rail engine, then: doh :cry4` :shock:. Not so great, eh?
2. Quiet? I mentioned some time ago that I can feel my engine so much through the cockpit floor such that I know when the coupling throws a bolt! Then I go fix it. :D I'd rather have noise I can fix than quiet that I can't. How about you? :D
QuoteFor those of you who have seen this boat, did you take any pictures? Wanna share? :D
Stu,
I have attached a few pictures from two of my three visits to the Toronto Boat Show. They are exterior only since the cockpit and interior of the boat was closed for a sales tour when I stopped by to take interior pictures yesterday. They aren't great... I usually don't take many pictures of boats since the brochures and websites always have better pictures but they are few and far between for the Catalina 425 so far.
In my earlier post, I speculated that the bowsprit may have been part of the LOA. Not the case... the LOA is listed as 43'6" on the spec sheet on the Catalina website. LOD is 41'8".
2 more pics.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on January 26, 2017, 08:50:21 PM
Quote from: Braxton on January 26, 2017, 07:17:51 PM
1. That advice runs contrary to the general ethos of most people who frequent this board.
2. On the plus side, the common rail engines do run remarkably quietly. I wish we could get the best of both worlds some how.
1. Not necessarily, Braxton. Seems we are a bunch of DIY-ers, and if you can't work on a common rail engine, then: doh :cry4` :shock:. Not so great, eh?
2. Quiet? I mentioned some time ago that I can feel my engine so much through the cockpit floor such that I know when the coupling throws a bolt! Then I go fix it. :D I'd rather have noise I can fix than quiet that I can't. How about you? :D
1. I think were saying the same thing, sorry if I was unclear. Since we are all DIY-ers then the advice to not work on you fuel system makes them not so great for us.
2. I'm currently on a series of noise abatement quests on my boat right now. Over the years loose fittings, miss alignments, bad bearings, bad storage solutions, etc. have created quite the cacophony when my engine runs. Combine that with the standard clackity-clack of a 30 year old mechanically injected diesel and it can be quite loud. I have found that the more I can tame the racket the engine makes the more likely I am to get the family out on the boat with me :-). There are certainly plenty of times that I would choose a diesel that sounds like a gas engine over what I have now. From what I know about you, you'd get you senses attuned to a different engine quickly enough.
Damn, the head in the 445 looks nicer than in my motel room. :shock: :shock:
(http://www.catalinayachts.com/images/gallery/c445_head.jpg)
I'm thinking that anyone who can afford a new 40+ footer, can probably afford a diesel mechanic when necessary? :rolling
kk
Quote from: Dave Spencer on January 25, 2017, 11:28:25 AM
There is a notable bowsprit for the anchor that would also provide great mounting for the tack of an asymmetrical spinnaker. The bowsprit is far longer than anything I've noticed on other Catalinas.
I wonder if the pipe hause could accommodate a retractable pole on one side of the sprit???? Would have been a nice option if not.
kk
[quote KK -- I'm thinking that anyone who can afford a new 40+ footer, can probably afford a diesel mechanic when necessary? :rolling
If not, certainly a nice pair of oars!
At an indoor sailboat show, you miss out on the standing and running rigging.... after all, it is a sailboat!
Holy distribution panels, Batman. This has more gizmos than our Batmobile!
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/38/90/5413890_20160526070414452_1_XLARGE.jpg?f=/1/38/90/5413890_20160526070414452_1_XLARGE.jpg&w=924&h=693&t=1464277879000)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/38/90/5413890_20160526070417158_1_XLARGE.jpg?f=/1/38/90/5413890_20160526070417158_1_XLARGE.jpg&w=924&h=693&t=1464277879000)
Not crazy about the hinge down doors(s) over panels particularly the big panel. Seems like it would be a PIA.
I thought exactly the same!! I saw myself flipping them around so the low ones were held UP nearly vertical, and the other switch panel you can't reach over when sitting on the seat. I'd have flipped that over so it opened flat against the headliner.
That will be version 1.2 if they have any sense.
Amazing isnt it? Such simple boo-boos.
Quote from: Noah on January 27, 2017, 12:10:32 PM
Not crazy about the hinge down doors(s) over panels particularly the big panel. Seems like it would be a PIA.
What's with the two different battery switches?
Maybe to control two banks -- 4 in a large house and plus a start reserve? Sorts like this simplified version?
Walkaround video taken at the TBS. (Not by me!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_D_k6IvAS8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_D_k6IvAS8)
The boat has 2-8Ds as house bank, just forward of the companion way steps, under the floor boards, and another 8D under the forward berth floor for the windlass. There is room for an optional start battery under floor near the electrical panel/nav area. I suspect that the house and windlass are wired as per the diagram above.
I was told that Catalina located all the batteries, water and fuel tanks low (i.e. under the floor) to lower the center of gravity. even the engine has been moved slightly forward to bring the weight more midships.
Quote from: Fred Koehlmann on January 27, 2017, 02:05:44 PM
The boat has 2-8Ds as house bank, just forward of the companion way steps, under the floor boards, and another 8D under the forward berth floor for the windlass. There is room for an optional start battery under floor near the electrical panel/nav area. .................
...................
...................
Forgetting the switching for a moment, it would be interesting to determine if the battery tray depth is enough to accommodate the taller golf cart batteries. As we've learned from Maine Sail, 8Ds are not true deep cycle batteries. They are also darned heavy. One of the C355 skippers has redone his boat with golf carts. IIRC, he had some depth issues to deal with, but managed to do it.
Zoomed into the images on my phone, and turns out the second one is the engine switch. I'll try to post a few more after I get back from winter camp with scouts.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on January 28, 2017, 04:55:50 AM
Quote from: Fred Koehlmann on January 27, 2017, 02:05:44 PM
The boat has 2-8Ds as house bank, just forward of the companion way steps, under the floor boards, and another 8D under the forward berth floor for the windlass. There is room for an optional start battery under floor near the electrical panel/nav area. .................
...................
...................
Forgetting the switching for a moment, it would be interesting to determine if the battery tray depth is enough to accommodate the taller golf cart batteries. As we've learned from Maine Sail, 8Ds are not true deep cycle batteries. They are also darned heavy. One of the C355 skippers has redone his boat with golf carts. IIRC, he had some depth issues to deal with, but managed to do it.
Hi Stu,
That was me...have switched out my factory 4D's to Rolls 6Vs. Thankfully no problem with height. If I can figure out how to shrink the size of pics for posting I will.
As for the switch, that is for the Starter. All 5 series have this. Not sure if it is an ABYC recommendation these days, but the idea is to be able to kill the starter if it sticks.
Forgive my engine ignorance, I was never a car guy in in my youth, but how and why would a starter stick, so that you would need to "kill it"?
Fred,
Here's an example....
(http://static-sailfeed.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/IMG_2543-300x225.jpg)
http://www.sailfeed.com/2017/01/electrical-fire-and-some-lessons-learned-about-starters/
The start switch stuck, which left the solenoid engaged ...... or the solenoid can stick "in" , i.e.on" (due to corrosion, etc) which can leave current continuing to go to the starter motor after the engine starts.
Theoretically power to the starter and/or the solenoid can be broken with the 12BO switch, but that leaves you with no power to the distribution panel, which could be a disaster (instruments, nav lights, radar, whatever.)
Ideally there should be a way to cut power to BOTH the solenoid or to the start switch (kill current in the "S" wire from the start switch to the solenoid,) and a switch to cut power to the starter motor (kill the current in the battery cable.)
kk
Quote from: Solstice on January 30, 2017, 04:56:36 AM
If I can figure out how to shrink the size of pics for posting I will.
As for the switch, that is for the Starter. All 5 series have this. Not sure if it is an ABYC recommendation these days, but the idea is to be able to kill the starter if it sticks.
If you are using a windows PC, here's a simple/quick resizer that I use regularly.
http://www.bricelam.net/ImageResizer/The downside is that the options don't tell you the Kb of the resized file, so it's trial and (hopefully the first time,) success.
Here's one that's more complicated that I also use. Its up side is that you can specify the desired reduced file in Kb and it does what it needs to to get you there.
http://www.obviousidea.com/windows-software/light-image-resizer/Or any windows bundled software like MS Paint (or there's a ton of free applications out there like PAINTG.net) that will physically resize pics (say 8"x10" to 4"x 5",) or reduce the resolution (say 600 dpi to 200 dpi,) or compress the saved file (say 70% compression) -- ALL of the three will reduce file size.
If you use a Mac. Well, just don't. Boating friends shouldn't let boating friends use Macs.
k
Ken, that's the hard way.
Easier?
I sent Solstice a pm, suggesting he look at the "101 Topics" which includes all the info one needs to do so.
Posting Photos 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3701.0.html
Thanks Stu, one day I'll memorize all that's in the 101
I need a 101 for the 101 -- there's a lot of topics in there!!!!
BTW,
Your link to image resizer is dead and you might want to update your post... It is now at http://www.bricelam.net/ImageResizer/
kk
Quote from: Stu Jackson on January 30, 2017, 11:08:53 AM
Ken, that's the hard way.
Easier?
I sent Solstice a pm, suggesting he look at the "101 Topics" which includes all the info one needs to do so.
Posting Photos 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3701.0.html
Thanks Stu, I always check the 101 Topics if there is something I'm having trouble with. Mea culpa, it is another Catalina site that I was having trouble with.
I am quite computer literate and have some pretty sophisticated tools, but it was a royal pain so I just gave up...my bad....
Will post the pics when I have a chance...Thanks all
Thanks All for the interesting and some amusing feedback regarding the 425. As it is we were so interested in it that we did the unthinkable and bought it. We weren't planning on it, but had spoken about looking for something bigger than the 34, mostly to accommodate our growing boys and our (Kathy & mine) less than youthful selves. As much as we love the 34 and have had some great times on it, when we saw the 425 at the boat show, I think we fell in love again. It had everything that we were looking for, from the taller ceiling, a bed that we didn't have to climb up into, to a sail plan that one could easily sail solo, and something that we could likely retire on and potentially take south when we feel like a change from the Great Lakes.
Sorry about not letting on earlier, but we didn't want to jinx anything while things were still in transition. Sorry Dave, that you didn't get to see the inside of the boat. :( That was likely us inside. :oops: We didn't initially know that they were keeping people out and when we did, we told them to not worry and let them in.
Ken, thanks for the electrical info with respect to the forward shore power plug. We're having them add one to the boat and I wanted to make sure I had a correct understanding of the requirements.
Noah, you are right, it probably can't do "that". :rolling But we're not planning on the Vandee Globe anyway. We're thinking about something little more casual and relaxing. My crazy sailing days slowed done, when my first son was born.
So needless to say you C34 MKII is up for sale/sail. (http://swansyachtsales.com/used-yachts/catalina-34/ (http://swansyachtsales.com/used-yachts/catalina-34/)) She's been on Georgian Bay since we launched her in 2011 and is currently on the hard under her winter cover. She in great shape and would love to see her continue to sail up here (increase the # of Catalina's on the Bay), so if you know of someone looking for one just point them our way.
I'll probably stay on this board, since it has been so useful and informative, so I won't be saying good bye.
Cheers, Fred.
Very big congrats! I'm jealous! Here's to many great times to come aboard your new boat. And, I am sure it will not be long before another lucky sailor will be feeling the same excitement, as you, as they take the helm as the new owners of your "old" C34!
Wow, super Fred. Good luck!!!!!! :clap :thumb: :clap :thumb: :clap
Envious!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
In the front inlet are they installing a SP?? :think
I'm wondering if CTY has embraced revolution? :donno:
Ken
Quote from: KWKloeber on March 02, 2017, 10:42:33 PM
I'm wondering if CTY has embraced revolution? :donno:
Ken
Nah, they're finally listening to you. :clap :clap :clap
Wow! Congratulations Fred. :clap. The 425 is a great looking boat. I was able to get inside for a look on the first day of the show but perhaps you were aboard when I came back to take a few pictures on the Tuesday. Let us know how the launch goes and maybe we'll see you on Georgian Bay or in the North Channel. I assume they are transporting the boat to Penetanguishene / Midland for you rather than launching in Toronto where you would have to bring it through The Welland Canal and run across Erie and Huron. My friend did that trip on his Bene that he bought east of Toronto. It was long and tiring but it turned out to be a great shakedown cruise for him.
We'll need pictures!!
Thanks guys. We're excited as well.
Ken, yes it will be a SP. The stern shore-power is already a SP.
That's correct Dave, we paid the extra to have it delivered to Midland.
See you on the water.
Congrats! That's such an awesome boat. Wonder if she'll be the first 425 on the Great Lakes? Do you know?
Congratulations, Fred. Nice choice. Very glad to hear you'll be sticking around here, too. Many thanks for your support and many quality contributions.
Hi Fred,
All the best with the new boat!!! Glad to hear you are sticking around on this site. What will you name her?
Hi Roc,
The preference is to transfer the name from the 34 to the new boat, but only if it doesn't impact the sale of the 34.
The kids, and myself, like the name.
Not sure if a special ritual will be required!
Hi Fred,
A ceremony / ritual is definitely required. Although yours will be relatively simple since you are simply naming a brand new boat. You don't have to worry about denaming a PO's name.
http://www.johnvigor.com/Denaming.html (http://www.johnvigor.com/Denaming.html)
Quote from: Fred Koehlmann on March 04, 2017, 08:52:01 AM
Hi Roc,
The preference is to transfer the name from the 34 to the new boat, but only if it doesn't impact the sale of the 34.
The kids, and myself, like the name.
Not sure if a special ritual will be required!
Fred, I would like to add my congratulations as well! Sounds very similar to our situation as we loved our 320, and were not necessarily shopping but once we came across the 355 we had to have it!
As for the name, we used the same name as our old boat (no II or anything) and it is not a problem to leave the name on the old as well. If the new owner chooses to change the name, that's up to them.
The only glitch we had was the state got confused the first year in terms of collecting excise tax, however it was cleared up with a phone call!
Congratulations and enjoy!