i have, in my 1986 c34, two different batteries - a deka 24m7 and a deka 24n6. knowing that nothing is normal, on our boats, is this normal, to have two different sizes of batteries? is there a manufacturer to stay away from? i see no reason not to get deka again but i don't know any better either. thanks
becki kain
24n6, or 24M6?
kk
as far as i could read, in the dark, 24m7 and a deka 24n6 but it could have been m6. i know the other was was 24m7. what are they?
how do you tell how they are rigged?
Quote from: anaisdog on October 11, 2015, 11:12:17 AM
as far as i could read, in the dark, 24m7 and a deka 24n6 but it could have been m6. i know the other was was 24m7. what are they?
they're both East Penn/Deka Marine batteries - group 24. Did you have a specific question about them? If yo google the part number you can see the specs on each.
k
is there any reason to have two different batteries or are they really the same? this is all new to me, as you know.
and do you recommend deka or does it really matter?
Quote from: anaisdog on October 12, 2015, 05:44:11 AM
is there any reason to have two different batteries or are they really the same? this is all new to me, as you know.
It all depends on how you use the boat, time on a hook, etc. -- your power budget, alternator (and regulator) output, and how often (and how) they're recharged. The answer depends on doing an accurate power budget and comparing that to your charging profile. Basically the "worst case" difference between use and charging has to be made up by the battery capacity (the house battery.)
Imagine the difference in energy used by a sailor who simply motors off the dock for 2 minutes, races one night / 3 hours a week during daylight (no nav light load), returns, and never uses the fridge -- versus one who sails 8 hours (away from shore power) on weekends, on a hook weekends, and is in on shore power all other times. What size batter(ies) you need depends on your amp-hour needs - or whether all you need is starting power.
You basically have two starting batteries now.
kk
i only do day sails and the fridge is only on with shore power, of course.
thanks about the type of batteries
Quote from: anaisdog on October 12, 2015, 08:12:29 AM
thanks about the type of batteries
spec sheet
http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Marine-Master-Spec-Sheet-0194.pdf
kk
thanks. i must have misread the N part.
Quote from: anaisdog on October 12, 2015, 08:22:39 AM
thanks. i must have misread the N part.
So the best way to decide on battery capacity needs, I'd have someone help you come up with an accurate estimate of power usage for a worst case, and look at switching to LEDs and increasing efficiency wherever possible. Then balance that against your charging profile and make up the needs for a house battery on those two.
Or just guess and go with the largest, cheapest that will fit, which is what many (most?) do. Or maybe you need only starting batteries like you have now. Without going into the data showing charge/discharge cycles-battery life -- Understand that, no matter how much false advertising by battery mfgrs, there's really no true 12v deep cycle battery made -- unless you go to to a 6v deep cycle type battery.
Deka is a middle of the road, made by East Penn along with other store branded batteries. Probably no better or worse than the average. Many fail prematurely, but so do others.
Look at US Battery if you want a top of the line. And of course there's Trojan.
Also, "naturally?" - many run their fridge off a battery bank. It just has to be sized for it, and whether you have a holding plate evaporator.
k
when I first got #219 years ago, I had to replace the batteries and I went with 2 group 27's. This year I upgraded to 2 group 31's, truck batteries. Started like a champ all summer. There is room for these and my suggestion is to move up to this size. I too am a day sailor, boat out on a mooring. Unfortunately boat coming out this weekend, season is over.
thanks. i really didn't understand the group part. i will call deka. thanks
Quote from: anaisdog on October 13, 2015, 08:43:25 AM
thanks. i really didn't understand the group part. i will call deka. thanks
Group is a standard designation on the size and capacity of the battery. just like in FORDS! :D
e.g., group 24 is "small", group 31 is "large" The larger the designation (i.e., group) the larger the dimensions, so there's a limit as to what will fit in the battery tray. I believe the pdf I linked you to had the dimensions. Again, 1st you need to figure out if you need just startinbg, and/or how much house capacity you need to survive, then match the battery to those needs. Are your dying? Age? etc?
kk
becki, Ken's right about learning how to size your house bank for you intended use. This is covered in the "Energy Budget" link in the "Electrical Systems 101" topic, here:
The All-Important Energy Budget:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3976.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3976.0.html)
Quote from: Stu Jackson on October 13, 2015, 11:49:39 AM
becki, Ken's right about learning how to size your house bank for you intended use. This is covered in the "Energy Budget" link in the "Electrical Systems 101" topic, here:
The All-Important Energy Budget:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3976.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3976.0.html)
Stu,
MY bad... I didn't realize you had a sample budget calk online.
Another down-and-dirty way is to simulate, measuring the total amps for whatever sailing profile is :wort case" for a particular owner -- not 100% precise and accounting for all conditions, but a quick alternative to counting amps on every bulb and radio, etc. As many may know, a clip-on ammeter (multimeter) is available for about 5 bucks (oftentimes free at Harbor Freight) but it means putting it in line with a battery cable -- but a no-fuss clamp-on DC ammeter can be had for < 40-50 bucks. Just don't run the starting motor current thru them!! Regardless it takes some electrical know how and isn't a A-B-C follow these directions -- but usually everyone has some friend somewhere with enough sparks knowledge that, for a cold beer or two can run through the calculations or a simulated test aboard of amps consumed.
Ken
Quote from: KWKloeber on October 13, 2015, 01:05:32 PMfor a cold beer or two can run through the calculations or a simulated test aboard of amps consumed.
Right after the Energy Budget link in the "Electrical Systems 101" topic is this one:
Record of Daily Energy Use of 100 ah per day:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6353.msg41471.html#msg41471 (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6353.msg41471.html#msg41471)
But, heck, I'll take the cold beer anyway! :thumb:
Quote from: Stu Jackson on October 13, 2015, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: KWKloeber on October 13, 2015, 01:05:32 PMfor a cold beer or two can run through the calculations or a simulated test aboard of amps consumed.
Right after the Energy Budget link in the "Electrical Systems 101" topic is this one:
Record of Daily Energy Use of 100 ah per day:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6353.msg41471.html#msg41471 (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6353.msg41471.html#msg41471)
But, heck, I'll take the cold beer anyway! :thumb:
Damn, that's one expensive ammeter! :rolling
Quote from: KWKloeber on October 13, 2015, 01:27:53 PM
Damn, that's one expensive ammeter! :rolling
Yeah, but it makes Sierra Nevada pale ale, too. :clown
the batteries, while barely used (probably less than 100 hours ) are dated 2010. I have been told, all along but by people who use their boats WAY more than i do, that it's dangerous to have batteries that old. but no, it starts right up
Becky - It all depends on how they've been used or abused. Five or six years could be getting toward the end of their useful lives, but if they're still doing the job? When it gets colder and the engine cranks harder, you'll have a better clue.
true but she's on the hard now. i'll see in the spring. i guess there is no hurry to spend money now!
Quote from: anaisdog on October 14, 2015, 05:54:57 AM
the batteries, while barely used (probably less than 100 hours ) are dated 2010. I have been told, all along but by people who use their boats WAY more than i do, that it's dangerous to have batteries that old. but no, it starts right up
Mannnnn it takes forever to get complete info.
Suggestions:
1. Find better advisors. It seems like just about every question revolves around what some 'expert' has told you --- that is, well, questionable at best. I think they're messing with your head because you're a newbie. Your batteries aren't going to explode or kill you because they are 5 years old.
2. Just take both batteries to Walmart and for zero cost they will load test them and give you a report of their cranking amps compared to the original spec. Done deal. Ask them to put them on the "good" charger/tester, not use the hand-held tester. Since they are starting batteries that's all the testing you need to do on them.
3. Give us as much / complete info up front as you can!
Cheers,
KK
i did. i said what they were, in the initial posting. i'll try the walmart idea. thanks
Quote from: anaisdog on October 11, 2015, 07:33:10 AM
i have, in my 1986 c34, two different batteries - a deka 24m7 and a deka 24n6. knowing that nothing is normal, on our boats, is this normal, to have two different sizes of batteries? is there a manufacturer to stay away from? i see no reason not to get deka again but i don't know any better either. thanks
Quote from: anaisdog on October 12, 2015, 05:44:11 AM
is there any reason to have two different batteries or are they really the same? this is all new to me, as you know.
Quote from: anaisdog on October 12, 2015, 08:11:48 AM
i only do day sails and the fridge is only on with shore power, of course.
Quote from: anaisdog on October 14, 2015, 05:54:57 AM
the batteries, while barely used (probably less than 100 hours ) are dated 2010. I have been told, all along but by people who use their boats WAY more than i do, that it's dangerous to have batteries that old. but no, it starts right up
Quote from: anaisdog on October 14, 2015, 05:54:57 AM
the batteries, while barely used (probably less than 100 hours ) are dated 2010. I have been told, all along but by people who use their boats WAY more than i do, that it's dangerous to have batteries that old. but no, it starts right up
I guess we have way different versions of complete info,
Here's complete info.
I have 2 deka batts, an X and a Y, both barely used (less than 100 hours) but dated 2010. Many people have told me it's dangerous to have batteries that old, but they start the engine right up. I only day sail. Do I need new batteries and if so should I keep the same kind and size and manufacturer?
Answer - find new friends for advice. Take them to Walmart (the batteries, lose the advisors somewhere) and ask them to load test them on the good (not hand held) tester, Let us know the results.
Done.
:rolling
kk
thanks. i'll try walmart