In my opinion, the holding tank flooded this past week.
Scenario: We emptied the tank in the last couple of weeks 3 miles out.
The waste cap on the deck port side was sealed shut and the only way to remove the cap was to break it.
Didn't realize it on the last trip, but my first attempt to remove it left a hole in the cap indent. We had some heavy rains this past week and I think that the deck water ran down that hole and flooded the holding tank.
The result was that toilet back fed from the tank past the joker valve (new) into the toilet bowl. If we pumped it out, it would fill back in about 15 minutes.
The level held just below the rim of the toilet.
I was able to get the rest of the waste cap removed and install a new cap. Then we visited a local city pumpout and cleaned out as much as we could.
I'm wondering if the vent is blocked as I thought that pumping head contents back into the tank might push the flooded tank contents up towards the vent on the port side. But it did not (phew, that would have been messy) Not sure how to test if the vent is working correctly.
On Eximius, the vent is a hole about 1/2" diameter on the inside of the port stanchion, it has a plastic hinged cover tapped over it, I'm guessing to keep water out)
This is really just a heads up (pun intended) to make sure that the waste pump out cap is effectively closing the waste pipe.
But if anyone knows the correct size pump out adapter, plesea let me know! The city pump out stations (free) do not have the adapters.
Paul
Paul : Some PO installed the hinged cover on that holding tank vent hole!! I'd remove it.
I also believe that if a holding tank takes on rain or sea water it's because the plastic winch handle cap is cracked -- not coming in thru the vent hole!! PO might have wanted to "cap off" the smell ?!
That's why it's important to check all of your caps periodically to make sure they don't leak.
Also it isn't necessary to play "King Kong" when you screw any of those caps back down!!
A thought
Quotebut my first attempt to remove it left a hole in the cap indent
I had used the winch handle to try and remove the cap, that's most likely what caused the hole in the cap's winch handle socket. Finally I had to use a chisel to remove the cap.
I had purchased all new caps (Fuel, Water(2) and Waste from Catalina Direct)
I'll not be using the winch handle to secure the new caps in place!
The vent is just a flap of flexible plastic that is taped, using rescue tape, to the stanchion above the vent hole. Definitely not air tight!
The 1/2" hole would most likely allow the tank to flood if the boat healed that far over, but it wouldn't matter much, Peggy would be on her way to see a divorce attorney if I heeled the boat that far! :shock:
Paul
Quote from: britinusa on August 17, 2015, 12:53:20 PM
But if anyone knows the correct size pump out adapter, plesea let me know! The city pump out stations (free) do not have the adapters.
Paul
1) Most pump outs just have a rubber tapered end that fits tight against my deck fitting, and gets tighter as she sucks. Doesn't yours?
2) So that the rubber sealed against something smooth rather than the female threads of the deck fitting, I used to screw a PVC male NPT pipe adapter into the deck. I haven't done that in over 10 years (but still have the fitting ready.)
3) My fitting is 1-1/2" NPT - try screwing in a pvc fitting to check yours.
Ken
This is very similar to the adapter that the city guys had... (Not sure of the thread size)
(http://cdn.overtons.com/product/083/83034_L1.JPG?interpolation=lanczos-none&downsize=450px:*)
From http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=NozAll-Pump-Out-Adapter-1-1/4&i=83034&r=view&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlebase&s_kwcid=googlepla&cvsfa=2587&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3833303334&gclid=COelgf-8s8cCFYiPHwodqX8K3A&kpid=83034 (http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=NozAll-Pump-Out-Adapter-1-1/4&i=83034&r=view&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlebase&s_kwcid=googlepla&cvsfa=2587&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3833303334&gclid=COelgf-8s8cCFYiPHwodqX8K3A&kpid=83034)
Quote from: britinusa on August 18, 2015, 01:34:29 PM
This is very similar to the adapter that the city guys had... (Not sure of the thread size)
(http://cdn.overtons.com/product/083/83034_L1.JPG?interpolation=lanczos-none&downsize=450px:*)
From http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=NozAll-Pump-Out-Adapter-1-1/4&i=83034&r=view&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlebase&s_kwcid=googlepla&cvsfa=2587&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3833303334&gclid=COelgf-8s8cCFYiPHwodqX8K3A&kpid=83034 (http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=NozAll-Pump-Out-Adapter-1-1/4&i=83034&r=view&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlebase&s_kwcid=googlepla&cvsfa=2587&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3833303334&gclid=COelgf-8s8cCFYiPHwodqX8K3A&kpid=83034)
Well either 1-1/2 or 1-1/4 thread,
But why do you want one -- of at a p.u. that had a quick connect instead of a rubber end, they would have it?
Ken
This was the first time we have used a pump out station on eximius.
Years ago we used a PUS to pump out our porta potty on our C250. That had just a rubber hose end that we stuck down inside the tank.
In Fort Lauderdale, there are several 'Public' pump out stations, Free to use, provided by the city as part of their efforts to keep the waters clean.
They have the quick disconnect fitting on some hoses and bare rubber ends on others. When I looked at the options to use the pump out on Eximius, neither the quick disconnects nor the bare hose end would fit our waste outlet. The only reason we were able to get a pump out was because the two city employees had the fitting that screwed into the boat's waste outlet.
Had we had one of those fittings, we could have pumped out unaided.
It's all new to us, and I have no clue if the kind of fittings available down here in the Fort Lauderdale area are common around the country.
Of course, ideally we would not need to use a pump out station, instead be sailing at least 3 miles off shore. 8)
Our plans include sailing up the east coast next year, as well as the Bahamas, and I would rather have the correct connections just in case.
Paul
The pump out hose at our marina doesn't use any kind of adapter. It has a rubber cover that completely covers the pump out hole.
As far as checking to see if your vent is working....next time you do a pump out, as you are doing it, just put your thumb over the vent hole for 5-10 seconds. By doing that, you are creating a vacuum in the holding tank. When you remove your thumb, you will hear a rush of air being sucked into the tank.
Quote from: britinusa on August 19, 2015, 04:26:58 AM
They have the quick disconnect fitting on some hoses and bare rubber ends on others. When I looked at the options to use the pump out on Eximius, neither the quick disconnects nor the bare hose end would fit our waste outlet.
Had we had one of those fittings, we could have pumped out unaided.
Paul
Ok so was the city's ends too large? too small? Correct size, wrong thread? !st you need to try 1-1/2 and 1-1/4 pvc fittings on your deck fitting and determine what thread you have. You can buy cam lock x make NPT adapters many places - doesn't need to be a marine supplier.
http://www.banjovalves.com/112fppcamandgroovefitting.aspx
Ken
The city pump out had two types of ends.
#1 had a bare hose, it did not fit into the waste outlet at all. Too big to go into the outer diameter hole of the waste and thus also too big to go down into the inner tube of the waste.
#2 had a quick disconnect (cam & grove fitting) that would connect to the fitting pictured above, but without the fitting, it was useless.
I asked the city guys if they kept the fitting instead of leaving attached because it would get stolen, they confirmed that was the reason.
Thanks for the link, 10% of the price elsewhere.
Paul
Doesn't sound like the question about the vent being clogged was answered. If you have a shop vac, reverse it to blow, remove the pump out deck cap, and blow air into the vent hole. That should push anything trapped thru to the tank. You'll hear air coming thru the pump out opening if it is clear. If it's easy for the vent line to get water in it, it can create a trap if the vent line is connected to the top of the holding tank. Not enough room for a good up angle.
Ed
Quote from: britinusa on August 19, 2015, 03:32:41 PM
The city pump out had two types of ends.
#1 had a bare hose, it did not fit into the waste outlet at all. Too big to go into the outer diameter hole of the waste and thus also too big to go down into the inner tube of the waste.
#2 had a quick disconnect (cam & grove fitting) that would connect to the fitting pictured above, but without the fitting, it was useless.
I asked the city guys if they kept the fitting instead of leaving attached because it would get stolen, they confirmed that was the reason.
Thanks for the link, 10% of the price elsewhere.
Paul
Some plaes - maybe not city want attendant to do it (liability?) I figured someone was had ripped off the adapters before :x
I imagine, but haven't confirmed that the cam lock ends are all the same for a given fitting size - but Amazon has Banjo fittings if you search for the part number.
Ken
Update.
Finally got the correct size adapter for the Pump out outlet (port side)
Investigating further on the return flow from the holding tank to the head.
We found that even after a pump out, the head would experience bubble back when we stopped pumping.
I checked the vent hose and found a really bad kink about 4" below the port side vent stanchion inside the cubby above the nav station (behind the sliding perspex doors)
I'm going to cut the hose and put in a Elbow to avoid the kink in the hose.
Paul
Paul,
If it still bubbles back after fixing the kink. The next thing to try is a new joker valve.
Jim
Thanks Jim, I replaced the entire valve set within the past 3 months.
Paul
Quote from: britinusa on October 31, 2015, 05:53:25 PM
Thanks Jim, I replaced the entire valve set within the past 3 months.
Paul
I've had a new joker leak -- sometimes is doesn't matter it's all it takes is "something" that doesn't belong there inadvertently pumped thru. getting stuck, and holding the joker open.
k
Oh Carp, I guess I'm going to have to take it apart again :shock:
Quote from: britinusa on November 01, 2015, 06:03:25 AM
Oh Carp, I guess I'm going to have to take it apart again :shock:
No carp - actually it was a tiny tapping screw that somehow must have fallen into the bowl? I HOPE it didn't get there via another pathway.
I guess if it's young enough, a carp could get thru :rolling -- unless you have a screen
I did once pick up an eel that blocked the seawater cooling screen while delivering a C42 from Baltimore to Long Island!
(//)
kk
For what it's worth, I can verify that you can get water into the holding tank via the vent line... I was down below working on my system and had the vent line disconnected. We had a pretty hard rain and water started running out of my vent line! I ran up top to take a look and the water just couldn't get through that tiny scupper fast enough, resulting in the water level rising high enough to reach and flood the vent.
The amount of water wasn't insignificant, but I can't imagine how much rain you'd need to fill an empty holding tank.