Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: RobertSchuldenfrei on May 11, 2014, 01:56:33 PM

Title: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: RobertSchuldenfrei on May 11, 2014, 01:56:33 PM
Christeen & Franco, who are partners in the Esprit du Vent, LLC had the boat out this weekend.  I am sick in bed, but I wanted to post this today.  Somehow Christeen has lost her forum posting ability, so I am filling in today.

Hi Forum,

So I need some input on a recent event. To begin, we have a 1987 Catalina 34 wing keel. We LOST our rudder... Yes, lost it. We did not strike anything or ground now sailing it hard. We were in the protected Intracoastal waterway motoring, we were waiting for the bridge when suddenly, we lost all steering! Of course right directly under the bridge. We managed to forward and reverse (with only a minor bump on the bow pulpit into the piling but no damage) letting the current push us out from under the bridge. We managed to use the current to GET close to a dock and tied up.  All without hitting another boat! But it was such a scary event and we were lucky we weren't either out at sea in the Gulf Stream or coming into the inlet. I am so thankful nobody got hurt and no other boats damaged in the whole ordeal.

Once tied up we went to look under the boat and the entire rudder was GONE! It fell right off the boat just before the bridge. We then towed the boat to are dock so we can figure out what to do. By the way, there is no water infiltration.

Anyway... I read of a case or two of rudder loss on the forums, but most were after a hard hit or heavy weather or grounding, none of which apply to us. After further inspection, it seems the shaft corroded and it just broke off. I have photos of under the boat, which I may post later. We are really in shock and not sure how this can happen? Are there any other experiences with this?

We are not sure where to begin. I know a call to Catalina is in order. And I know they sell the retro fit elliptical rudders which I assume is the way to go. Any other advice you guys might have in the road forward would be great.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Bob
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 11, 2014, 03:51:02 PM
Photos from Bob,

Hey bob... Franco went to the boat today and did a full inspection and cleared out the back locker so we have full access to see everything and went under the boat...The locker and rudder mechanism looks solid and perfectly water tight... all seals look to be holding well (I attached photos...)   The underwater inspection revealed it (the shaft) just broke off! Like just broke off (looks like a corrosion issue) I have attached pics...several photos (some are of the grass growth franco so painstakingly removed) then of the missing rudder, close ups of the broken shaft and of the rudder housing in the aft compartment...
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 11, 2014, 03:51:28 PM
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Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 11, 2014, 03:51:54 PM
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Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 11, 2014, 03:52:20 PM
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Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 11, 2014, 03:52:56 PM
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Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 11, 2014, 03:53:35 PM
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Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: lazybone on May 11, 2014, 05:42:29 PM
JUST WOW.

Glad everyone is ok.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: patrice on May 12, 2014, 08:05:06 AM
Ouchhh!!!

Nice to see that they remained calm and handle the situation nicely.

Question, did they saw the rudder floating behind, around  ??   :shock:
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Clay Greene on May 12, 2014, 09:10:32 AM
Wow, that's amazing.  Glad everyone is OK.  Hard to believe that a stainless steel rudder post would fail in that fashion but it obviously can. 

A new C34 rudder from CY was $2518 (plus shipping) in 2012.   It took them about a month from the date of the order for the new rudder to arrive.  Also factor in that you likely will need to pay someone to cut down the rudder stock and drill holes for the quadrant and the emergency tiller cap.  CY sends the rudder purposely too long and without holes drilled so that it can be customized to fit your boat.  The new rudder stock is double-walled (probably seems like a good idea to you right now) so it is something that requires specialized tools. 

You could also try Foss rudders in Florida.  They make foam rudders that I believe I are cheaper than what you would get from CY.  I have no experience with them or their product but others on the forum might. 

Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Ron Hill on May 12, 2014, 09:28:14 AM
Bob : WOW!  The first thing that I'd check for is stray voltage. 

The first thing that is obvious is the stern light and its wiring.
We had a Fleet 12 member that had stray voltage that was coming out of the rudder column at the water line.  That was over 20 years ago and as I recall the culprit voltage was from a pod instrument, going over to the steering column, then down and coming out the stainless column at the water line.  He caught it at night by seeing a small spark and then looked at/found the pitted column at the water line.   

Make sure that you save the top of the column and use it as a pattern for the steering quadrant and tiller cap holes.   Good Luck
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: RobertSchuldenfrei on May 12, 2014, 10:52:04 AM
Thanks for the suggestion.  We are following up on all ideas.  In answer to Patrice's question:  No, it did not float and is resting on the bottom of the Intracoastal Waterway.  Fortunately, everyone is safe and sound.  We have an excellent Boatwright who is a member of our sailing club.  With the application of time we should be in good shape.  Bob

Quote from: Ron Hill on May 12, 2014, 09:28:14 AM
Bob : WOW!  The first thing that I'd check for is stray voltage. 

The first thing that is obvious is the stern light and its wiring.
We had a Fleet 12 member that had stray voltage that was coming out of the rudder column at the water line.  That was over 20 years ago and as I recall the culprit voltage was from a pod instrument, going over to the steering column, then down and coming out the stainless column at the water line.  He caught it at night by seeing a small spark and then looked at/found the pitted column at the water line.   

Make sure that you save the top of the column and use it as a pattern for the steering quadrant and tiller cap holes.   Good Luck
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: kwaltersmi on May 12, 2014, 11:38:58 AM
Wow. Sobering post and photos.  Glad you weren't out at sea with the sails up.  Great job getting her safely to a dock too.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: mark_53 on May 12, 2014, 12:02:13 PM
Sounds like a good thing to inspect carefully.  How would one inspect for this problem?  Would it have been visible during a haul out or can a diver inspect for this?
Also, if you lose a rudder while in weather, what is the best course of action?
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Ron Hill on May 12, 2014, 02:57:17 PM
Mark : 1. Pray!!
         2. Hove to?
         3. Get on the radio and cell phone
          4. Try #1 again while waiting for rescue!
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 12, 2014, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: mark_53 on May 12, 2014, 12:02:13 PM
Sounds like a good thing to inspect carefully. 

1.  How would one inspect for this problem?  Would it have been visible during a haul out or can a diver inspect for this?

2.  Also, if you lose a rudder while in weather, what is the best course of action?

1.  You almost can't.  If your boat is out of the water, go look!!!  There is almost NO space between the top of the rudder and the bottom of the skeg.  Really.

2.  SOL.  You can't heave to without a rudder.  The crew did a REMARKABLE job of getting the boat to a dock.  Extremely well handled.  Congratulations to those on board at the time.  Good thinking, smart seamanship.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: RobertSchuldenfrei on May 13, 2014, 02:05:50 PM
All of the credit belongs to CPT Franco Cervetto for keeping Esprit du Vent from coming to grief.  By careful application of power in forward and reverse he maneuvered the boat to a dock on the Intracoastal.  Franco, along with his wife Christeen, are the other members in our LLC that owns our boat.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Noah on May 13, 2014, 06:15:50 PM
Nice job! It took me four tries to back into my slip this morning without hitting my neighbor, and that was with a rudder!  Curious, did they contemplate just dropping anchor?
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: RobertSchuldenfrei on May 14, 2014, 05:54:12 AM
Quote from: Noah on May 13, 2014, 06:15:50 PM
Nice job! It took me four tries to back into my slip this morning without hitting my neighbor, and that was with a rudder!  Curious, did they contemplate just dropping anchor?

At the moment Christeen is having problems signing on to the forum.  She has asked me to respond to dropping anchor.  That was our plan "B".  But it happened while we were underneath the opened drawbridge, so we had to clear out from there first.  Then we were in the way of the bridge traffic, so we did the reverse and drift and saw we were heading towards the sea wall.  But dropping anchor was our next move if we did not get a favorable drift.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: ozzie on May 14, 2014, 08:39:19 AM
Catalina Direct has fiberglass and HDPE rudders for sale.

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/2557/rudder-c-34-c-36brhdpe-unifoil-wing-keels.cfm

Dave.

Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: tonywright on May 19, 2014, 06:29:26 AM
Not sure if you have a wing keel, but those in our club who have replaced their rudders have gone with the shallower elliptical rudder: less prone to damage if/when you run aground.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: RobertSchuldenfrei on July 30, 2014, 11:35:48 AM
Hi Forum Members,

The new rudder came in last week so Esprit du Vent is on the hard.  We expect to have a steerable craft by Saturday.  The reason for the long delay was Catalina had to wait for another production run.

Now that we have solved this problem a new one has come up.  While the boat was dockside, three squirrels nested in the mainsail destroying same.  To read about this issue reference the new thread: "The squirrels ate our mainsail."  It is always something.

Cheers,

Bob
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: RobertSchuldenfrei on August 04, 2014, 06:24:43 AM
The job is done and Esprit du Vent is back in the water and at her home dock.  The emergency tiller head comes in on Wednesday.  That will complete the job.  Thanks you Ron Hill for all of the good advice and tips.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: lazybone on August 04, 2014, 01:13:52 PM
Looow aspect ratio.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Ron Hill on August 05, 2014, 03:07:38 PM
Bob : Don't want to alarm you as it may be an illusion from the angle that you took the picture, but your new rudder doesn't look like any C34 elliptical rudder that I've ever seen!!

Go to Projects (WiKi) and look at the rudder modification that I made by tracing a new factory C34 wing keel rudder and adding it to my old rudder. 
Also look in the Mainsheet tech notes (late 1990s) and look at the line drawings that I published comparing the old to the new elliptical rudders for a C34.

A thought     
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: Mike and Joanne Stimmler on August 05, 2014, 03:25:33 PM
Wow! I don't know if this is the new and improved rudder or not, but it definitely don't look like the one on my old boat.
I think it may be the proverbial barn door model.
The leading edge on mine tapered back going down and mine wasn't the new elliptical version.
Title: Re: We lost our rudder - help needed
Post by: RobertSchuldenfrei on August 25, 2014, 06:55:02 AM
Quote from: Ron Hill on August 05, 2014, 03:07:38 PM
Bob : Don't want to alarm you as it may be an illusion from the angle that you took the picture, but your new rudder doesn't look like any C34 elliptical rudder that I've ever seen!!

Go to Projects (WiKi) and look at the rudder modification that I made by tracing a new factory C34 wing keel rudder and adding it to my old rudder. 
Also look in the Mainsheet tech notes (late 1990s) and look at the line drawings that I published comparing the old to the new elliptical rudders for a C34.

A thought     

Hi Ron,

What's done is done.  It was ordered from Catalina and I do not know where they got it from.  The tiller cap came in and we installed it yesterday.  The new mainsail gets installed on Wednesday so we shall see how she sails. 

Cheers,

Bob