M25xp 2800 hours on engine.
Yesterday, went for a 3 hour run. Tracey smelled smoke. Engine was absolutely soaked in oil on starboard side. Pools of it. I thought the block had cracked or something. Hours of clean up - the only obvious problem was the dipstick tube was unseated. 3 litres of oil to fill. I thought I must have been an idiot and not pushed the dipstick. Had no idea it could make that much mess.
Today engine was running fine. No evidence of leaks. Came up to temperature checked oil everything ok. 1 hour running heard excessive valve noise. Shut down engine. Tried to check oil. Dipstick pretty much blew out of my hand and entire contents of the oil pan barfed out the dipstick tube. 2 foot high fountain of oil.
Ideas?
Make sure the vent line that is attached to the valve cover is clear. There is always some blow by from the rings, the vent relieves this pressure. You could also do a compression test to see if one of the cylinders is leaking badly.
Thanks Ken. Will check it out.
We are about a 3 hour sail from supplies. I am down to a half roll of paper towels so it will be a while before I even attempt to open the engine compartment!
Steve, if you check the blow up diagram of the "breather" in the engine manual, IIRC there's a small "sponge" inside where the hose connects to the top of the engine. Might want to check that, too.
Sorry to hear, hi to the gang.
At the dock now. Ice slowly melting in the rum and coke. I have 15 bilge pads, 3 rolls of paper towel, a hand pump, two gas cans, a bottle of spray cleaner, and a bunch of trash bags. Should I open up the engine compartment, or work on the rum before the cubes are gone? This one might take more planning. Just one step up from head problems.
Certainly the crankcase pressure is more than the breather hose can handle. If it isn't plugged, I doubt progressive ring wear would account for such a drastic change. I'd be suspecting valve seals. My 2 cent bet would be something restricting the breather path.
Just when it turned summer here..........
Ok. It turns out the correct answer was mix one more with a slice of lime and then go for the cleanup. The person who invented those pads that absorb oil out of water is a genius. My bilge is cleanish. My engine has never looked so good. A pristine white pad sits underneath once again.
Now the bad news. I disconnected my breather hose where i feed it into the air cleaner expecting things to be plugged up. I sucked on the hose and it breathes easy i can hear air gurgling in through the dipstick tube (haven't refilled oil yet). When i push the dipstick in it is more difficult to draw air, but it is not overly restricted. Now I am really confused. How is there enough pressure down below to purge the contents of the oil pan out the dipstick tube when it is apparently free to flow out the breather when the two areas are connected?
Clearly more research and a glass of Chardonnay with some fresh Dungeness crab are required.
I think maybe a call to Joe Joyce, the Westerbeake service manager is in order. 508 823 7677 or JJoyce@westerbeke.com
Steve : It would seem to me that somewhere there is a vent port from the oil pan to the valve cover area where the breather hose is attached. It probably is the pathway the oil drains back into the oil pan.
The sponge that Stu mentioned is inside that "square portion" of the valve cover. It is supposed to catch the condensation and filter the oily air and keep it inside the valve cover - doesn't work that well.
Definitely call Joe Joyce ant Westerbeke. To add to Ken's tel. # Joe is at X 234.
Hmmm. I suspect my home built foam filled breather container may have clogged and caused the problem. BTW, the "sponge" inside the valve cover is rolled up stainless mesh. I've gone back to a free breathing hose and have no pressure build up.
I am going to have a diesel mechanic come and check things out. Some valve noise didn't go away with an adjustment. Engine hasn't seen a mechanic since the pre-purchase engine survey.
Steve : Here's what I did when my breather hose went into my foam filter/oily air catcher.
I took a piece of white paper towel and wrapped it around the outside of the foam. That way I could see how dirty the towel was getting and knew it was time to clean/replace the foam.
If you just leave that oil pan hose free vent, you'll have an oily engine and engine compartment in awhile.
My thoughts
I recently used a peanut butter jar, drilled larger hole in the top for the hose and a bunch of smaller holes for "pressure relief" - it seems to be working fine.
Good luck, Steve.
Steve : One item I forgot. Make sure that the end of your hose is angle cut so there can't be a seal with a flat bottom.
I believe that I have my old "filter" is taking up space in my garage, in case anybody is interested.
4 years ago I replaced the breather hose with 1/4" Parker airline direct to the top of the air strainer.
Ya know the one... the aluminum shavings inside the perforated sheet metal air cleaner housing. My opinion is who cares if its filtered? It's only fumes from blow-back from the crankcase and few drops of condensed oil.
As long as the return lines in the cylinder head that let the oil back into the crankcase from the valve train are clear.... I'm not worried about that unlikely runaway problem. One could argue that a filter housing without an element would be a good idea as it would trap oil in large quantity from going into the air intake or at least alert the skipper that oil is starting to collect in the housing indicating other problems.
It's nice not having any diesel fumes or diesel oil smell below decks when the engine is running.
I think that you should get a compression test done. It is an easy test done thru the glow plug holes. If you what to do it yourself I can PM you instructions.
Thanks. All good ideas. Mechanic is coming Monday to check things over. I won't have a chance to even get to the boat until then.
Steve,
When I purchased my boat and had the engine surveyed,with the engine running, the mechanic took a piece of paper about 4x6 and layed it over the valve cover opening where you add oil, to see if the paper would blow off the opening. It did not which was good according to him.
I realize that this is a very basic test but may be a start.
Mike
That doesn't sound like much of a test... especially with all the vibration throwing a piece of paper off the engine... in my opinion that surveyor has more than a fair share of B.S.
It's simple, if the breather tube has "wind" coming out of it... something is wrong! A bit of smoke, a barely detectable flow of gasses out the tube is normal. Combustion gasses that get past the rings are what come out of the breather tube. Lots of gasses coming out means lots of wear in the cylinder. I'd just go up several viscosities in the engine oil... say 20w50 or better. If you can't start it cuz it's too cold out then it's time to rebuild or buy another engine. But that's just me..
This might not relate to the problem but a few years back my oil dipstick kept popping up and out allowing a fine mist of oil to make a mess of the engine.
The dipstick seemed loose in the dip tube so I ordered a new one.
The new dipstick with its new seal has yet to jump out and cause a problem.
I'm assuming the old rubber on the old dipstick shrunk and caused the ill fit problem?
Waterdog,
Sounds like you found the problem. I use a jegs oil separator on my M35. It has a see thru glass (high temp plastic) so you can monitor the oil level in the separator. It has a twist drain on the bottom and cost about $45 but worth it IMHO. I routed the outlet to my engine (K&N) air filter and no longer have an oily bilge. See the link attached. There are more suppliers than jegs, but they were able to deliver it to me. Good Luck.
Len
SV/ Crazy Legs
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performance-Products/JEGS-Air-Oil-Separator/763433/10002/-1
Len,
Could you show a picture of your setup?
Thanks,
Ron
Hi Ron,
I had to figure out how, hope it works! My set up will be different than yours. My M35 is in a 1989 C&C 37+. I like the C34 site for the great engine information! The separator will just fasten on anywhere that is convenient for you and plumb it to fit.
Len
(//)
Ahhhgh. Mechanic came Monday. "engine is all good". "well maintained". Asked him to do a compression check. He did a "balance check" cracking injectors one at a time. Concluded that compression was ok, maybe number 2 was down a bit but nothing he would tear an engine apart for. The valve adjustment I did was perfect, only one was slightly off. Concluded that engine oil blowing out dipstick probably was a result of the breather assembly as it doesn't take much pressure - "you get more blow by at low revs" (we were fishing at the time). The noise that was bothering me probably wasn't valve noise but maybe injectors. I should have them rebuilt at some point. And also check for carbon build up in the exhaust at the water insertion nipple The white smoke went away when he warmed up the engine. He says its from running at low revs. Everything is great. My wife and son who were at the boat with him thought he was a really good mechanic. He is from the local Universal dealer and trains the other mechanics.
So I get to the boat last night. Start the engine. Doesn't sound right. Still the loud noise. White smoke. Lots of it. Never seen it before. Replaced injectors. No difference compared to old injectors White smoke does go away when engine warm Went for a run. Lost power couldn't get above 2000 rpm. Engine died off Point Atkinson, no wind, water is 200 feet deep 100 feet off shore, tide pushing us along at a knot...
Anyway the problem with the pressure in the crankcase is solved. But there is clearly more than one problem. The first of which may be my choice of mechanics. Since I do all the work on the engine, we'll ignore that for the moment.
Screwdriver inserted at exhaust nipple goes in easily with no obstruction and comes out clean. Fuel filter is new - bowl looks beautifully clear, and I have never had bad fuel. I am thinking, start with a real compression test. Other suggestions? New mechanic?
Ok much happier spending $150 on a compression test set than another mechanic. Though a good one would be well worth the money.
Cylinders 1,2,3: 240,170,275 dry. 260,180,280 wet
So to me it seems maybe all that white smoke is from unburned fuel in #2 and the noise is in fact valve noise, but not just clicky tappets, something more sinister. Am I missing something? Time to pull the head and have a look?
Are those PSI numbers? or a metric reading? You have way too much disparity between #2 and the others. Looks like optimal is 320 PSI? Since the wet wasn't much different than dry and there's white smoke, it sounds like a head gasket. Time to pull the head. :-( Start reading Dave Sanner's article on rebuilding. Not the best time of year in this part of North America to be dealing with this.
Craig
Yes. PSI. I pulled the head. Head gasket separated on removal and bits left on the block, but it was along the port side edge - nothing between critical bits that I could see. Cylinders all look good. Valves were OK, nothing badly pitted, burned, cracked or bent. They are all nicely lapped and reseated now. Top end is all done. Oh, for a head gasket on a Sunday. I would like to go on vacation next weekend without having to tow the mothership around by the dingy...
Old gasket and valves. Head cleaned up ready to go.