I need to install port and starboard cleats as all moorings in my area are required to have two penants and I currently just have the one in the center.
I have read a lot of posts. I know I have to add the beckson ports. Looking at cleat options, I like the Schaefer versions that have studs not thru holes for screws. The studs are beefy 14mm for 8" and 16mm for 10". I am thinking of going with 10" cause my penants are 1" dia.
My question is, will I have room to swing a ratchet in between hull and anchor locker if I use the stud version? Figuring it would be a lot of 1/8 turns probably not a big deal, just want to check before I have to return yet another item to Defender Marine.
Thanks Paul
Hope you guys don't get tired of all my questions :?
Does the 2 pennant requirement also mean 2 cleats? Is the one center cleat big enough for 2 pennants? I've got 2, so it never occurred to me until now. Might be worth confirming to avoid another PITA job. I'm in the process of replacing my bow pulpit that got smashed in the hurricane last year and it's not to easy getting at the forward base nuts through the access port in the anchor well. Need to be built like Gollum...
Ed
Testing the assumptions of the past 26 years:
One of our "leaders" in the technology of our boats, Ron Hill, was the first to document many, if not all, of the improvements that could made on our boats. In this regard, he was the first IIRC to suggest that the single bow cleat was not necessarily the "best" arrangement, and he installed and DOCUMENTED how he put on his two extra bow cleats. He specifically mentioned using the 4 inch round Beckson ports.
Now, it has just occurred to me that those 4 inch ports are kinda small and end up making it somewhat if not very hard to actually work up into the deck to install additional cleats.
Since the walls of the anchor locker are basically NON-structural, could it be that larger ports could be installed in the walls of the lockers to allow easier access? What prompted this idea was recalling Lance Jones' great idea for access to the galley sink faucet, where he installed a large Beckson port in the wall behind the seats.
Just askin'...in this case, bigger might be better.
Any opinions?
Quote from: Ed Shankle on May 14, 2013, 09:56:45 AM
Does the 2 pennant requirement also mean 2 cleats? Is the one center cleat big enough for 2 pennants? I've got 2, so it never occurred to me until now. Might be worth confirming to avoid another PITA job. I'm in the process of replacing my bow pulpit that got smashed in the hurricane last year and it's not to easy getting at the forward base nuts through the access port in the anchor well. Need to be built like Gollum...
Ed
(First time I've done the quote thing so not sure if I am using it right?)
My buddies in my boat yard use the center cleat for both of their pennants but they have chocks where I want to put the cleats. So, I either have to put chocks or cleats there. We are in a pretty wide open mooring field, open to the north east. Normal conditions aren't the issue, it's usually the noreast storms we get in the fall that will put your tackle to the test. I would rather have the load split between two cleats as opposed to one if I have to make a change.
Yes, it looks like you figured out the quote feature. Also be aware that you can edit within the ["quote] [/quote] limits if you want.
One cleat? If the pennants are both pulling one could make the argument that there's no load on the cleat! :clap
Chocks: I believe they are the worst thing ever devised, since they turn out to be, inherently, line cutters. Plus, to install them you have to do the same work as if you put in cleats, right? I strongly recommend using cleats. And, regardless of whether or not you stay on your mooring or move to a dock in the future, you'll find extra cleats to come in very handy. We only installed one extra one on port, and it really helps, not only at our dock, but in raft ups, too. Chocks suck.
I agree whole heartedly about chocks :thumb:
QuoteSince the walls of the anchor locker are basically NON-structural, could it be that larger ports could be installed in the walls of the lockers to allow easier access? What prompted this idea was recalling Lance Jones' great idea for access to the galley sink faucet, where he installed a large Beckson port in the wall behind the seats.
Thought I would chime in on this one as well.
Stu.. you bring up a good point. I'm getting ready to cut the holes for the beckson ports in my anchor locker. (BTW.... I'm also going to cut the access hatch for the galley sink access as well at a later date... but thats for another thread :D). I'm curious to know what others may think about going to a larger beckson of around 6".
I'm also looking to go with the 8" cleats on both sides. :abd:
I don't see a problem with the 6" Beckson. I purchased the cleats and hope to get them installed in the near future so I'd be curious as to how you make out.
Kevin, part of my thrust was to consider using something that is not round, but rectangular, sorry I didn't make that clear.
Beckson makes circular "ports" but also makes rectangular hatches: http://www.beckson.com/hatches.html
Could be an alternative. Perhaps there are other vendors, too.
Of course, where you locate whatever you cut a hole for will make a huge difference on access to installing anything.
As Ron is fond of reminding us, too, remember to watch out for the wiring to the bow light, which, IIRC, is on the port side of the anchor locker.
I posted this before but I thought I'd give a friendly reminder - before you put the wrench in that port in the anchor-locker tie a piece of string to it. That way WHEN :shock: you drop the wrench you'll be able to easily retrieve it.
Set2 : I've put 2 anchor rode's on the center cleat many a time. I usually use the side cleats to attach the pennants for the sentals that I slide down those rodes.
As far as the 4" Beckson ports I installed - I saw that the factory used 4" on the front of the anchor well and that the 6" is more expensive - so I went with the 4".
As Stu said there is no strength involved with the anchor well pan, so if you want a larger port - go for it!! The lower you install a port the better as the wires are high!!
I cleared out the anchor locker yesterday (that sucker is deep!).
After reaching thru 4" Beckson on the front wall of the locker, I am going to put the cleats in and see if I can reach over, seems doable? If not, then I cut in new ports :cry4`
Hi,
If you remove all of the wood panel in the V berth, it also give you acces to the space between hull and locker.
It can give you a view ...
Set2 : As I recall I (right handed) could reach the starboard side to get the lock nuts/backing plate on, but needed to cut the Beckson port in to do the port side. Maybe you are more of a contortionist that I am!!
Please do yourself a favor and install 8 inch cleats and NOT 6 inch. A few thoughts
Set2
Is this what you intend to do?
with lid open
Quote from: TonyP on May 23, 2013, 04:45:21 AM
Set2
Is this what you intend to do?
Hello TonyP,
It's funny that you ask me if your picture was what I was going to do because friends of mine that have a C34 named Moon Shadow have the same set up as you with the single cleat before the anchor locker but they have chocks where your cleats are. Again we are on moorings in a very non protected area (Salem harbor). We have to have two pennants. I don't like putting two pennants to one cleat.
I did get my 8" SS Schaefer cleats (ones with studs not holes for screws) from Defender Marine the other day. I am planning on putting them as others have done, port and starboard between end of toe rail and bow pulpit stanchion.
Even the 8" inch are smaller than I would like to put, but 10 inchers would be too tight between toe rail and stanchion. My last boat had 10" cleats as I currently have 3/4" pennants and I have had 1" in the past. I don't see another option that I like. Somebody said that they put ten inchers in. I have seen C30's where they have a lot more space between end of toe rail and pulpit stanchion.
Paul
Paul
I was able to put the 8" cleats on my boat without cutting holes for access. It was a bit of a contortion, but I was able to put them on with backing plates.
I am about to attempt this cleat addition as well. I was under the impression that I would have to restrict my choice of cleats to ones with only two fasteners as there was no room for four legged ones. Looking at your photo makes question where I read this......Anyone have some thoughts to help clarify this for me?
Thanks!
Quote from: Jeff Tancock on May 24, 2013, 07:03:28 AM
I am about to attempt this cleat addition as well. I was under the impression that I would have to restrict my choice of cleats to ones with only two fasteners as there was no room for four legged ones. Looking at your photo makes question where I read this......Anyone have some thoughts to help clarify this for me?
Thanks!
Jeff,
After I cleared out my anchor locker, climbed in and open the existing beckson port on the forward anchor locker bulkhead, stuck my arm in and reached toward the new cleat area port and starboard, I wondered if the job can't be done without new ports on side walls of locker. Not that it is going to be an easy reach! I would rather have some pain in one project instead of creating two projects (Second being cutting for becksons, mounting and bedding them)?
Having said this, I have my cleats to install. I have a hole saw for 4" beckson ports. If it is too much of a PIA to reach thru existing, I am going to cut new. What I don't understand is why it is said that you can reach one side with existing beckson and not the other, where the beckson seems to be on center of boat?
Because of the bumpout on the starboard inside anchor locker wall, any newly added beckson won't be as close to the starboard cleat as is a newly added port side beckson. (Guess that is whay people were saying 4" on port and possibly bigger on starboar?).
It's supposed to rain all weekend up here, so not sure I can get'er done this weekend?
Jeff sorry, I just realized I wasn't even answering your question when I quoted you. I guess what I would add to that is the Schaefer 8 inchers I got from Defender Marine are two really big beefy studs. 14mm which is .546 diameter. You aint going to break those. If it is going to be a tough reach in there, I would rather deal with 2 larger nut/washers than 4 smaller ones. Plus, two leass holes for leak possibilities. Of course if you don't like that cleat for other reasons then . . . Like I said, I would rather go 10", but 10" would be too tight (I hear that all the time!)
I too am going to try to install the 8" cleats though the single inspection port. I am just wondering if a 4 legged cleat will fit there with washers/backing plate. It just gives me different options regarding cleat selection. Anyone have comments?
Jeff : If you fingers are nimble and you can pretzel your arm I'm sure that you can handle getting the backing plate and 4 nuts on them.
Paul has a point that it is easier for him (and me) to work with two larger 1/2" hex head bolts rather than four smaller 1/4" locknuts.
I also liked the "heft" of the Schafer 8" cleats & 14mm studs. Also I used the stainless Schafer "backing plates" on the top deck to cover the old holes from the old 6" cleats had I removed. I made new backing plates!
Do these bow cleats need a backing plate, or are fender washers enough?
Brad,
I'm certain that "Practical Sailor" had an article about this subject some time ago. I'll search my collection and see if I can find the specifics. As I recall, the answer is that backing plates are certainly required and that fender washers alone will almost certainly "dish" in high load conditions thereby imparting high concentrated loads to the hull. Since cleats can be heavily loaded, especially with repeated shock loads, there should be a backing plate. IIRC, fender washers would be OK against a hardwood backing plate. I.E. Although a stainless backing plate may be preferable, hardwood and fender washers will do it if you have the space.
I have used the 4" round port a few times, it does let you put some skin into a project. It can be done. I think that Stu offered a great idea which I am filing away for the future.
Paul
Looks like I will get some backing plates made.
Good idea Brad. I haven't search my Practical Sailor collection yet but here is a partial answer. The "Drew" referenced in the piece is Drew Frye who tests and writes for Practical Sailor and runs the very useful Sailing Delmarva blog.
http://smallboatprojects.blogspot.ca/2016/01/fender-washers-basically-useless.html (http://smallboatprojects.blogspot.ca/2016/01/fender-washers-basically-useless.html)
Brad : If you don't get stainless backing plates made here is another thought.
I also have used 3/16" Lexan (polycarbonate) as a backing plate with SS fender washers on the outside of the Lexan.
Just make sure that your bolt length is long enough.
A thought
I went with 3/16 aluminum backing plates