Hi Forum Members,
You have been so helpful on my last question I thought I would try another. In returning Esprit du Vent to its 1987 glory, I need to refinish the bright work. My first attempt was Cetol. In order to test Cetol, I removed the swim ladder steps, removed the old varnish with a heat gun, and coated them with clear Cetol. While the first coat dried, it seems somewhat soft to the touch. So I do not have "buy in" with Cetol.
So, I am considering varnish or paint. Here are the pros and cons for varnish. Pro: when done right, with 6 coats, nothing beats the look of old fashioned varnish. Cons: The conditions have to be just right with respect to temperature, shade, wind, and humidity. Six coats will cut into my sailing time. Varnish does not hold up well over time.
Paint does not look as good as natural wood even if it matches the deck color. What kind of marine topsides paint would you recommend if I went this route?
Thanks in advance,
Bob
Don't paint your teak. Why? 'Cuz it's great wood.
Other than that, it really all depends on what YOU want to see on YOUR boat, and how much "work" you want to put into it.
There are only three different options:
1. bare wood, let it go gray
2. oil - which needs to be redone periodically or it will go black
3. coatings: Cetol, varnish or other types.
Your boat, your choice.
Heresy 101: you don't have to have your handrails the same as the rest of your brightwork.
We use Cetol Marine Natural with an overcoat of Cetol Gloss. I do a maintenance coat every year. It looks great and weathers well. We use to oil the bare wood but it didn't weather well and the teak got damaged plus it was a lot if maintenance work.
I re-finished all the brightwork on my C-30 with Cetol. 3-4 coats of Cetol Natural Teak then 3-4 coats of Cetol Gloss. Practical Sailor had an article a couple of years ago comparing several coatings for a year. Cetol came out near the top. Nice thing is every year you can add a coat without any sanding. Just clean off the teak and add another coat. Supposedly it won't turn orange like the older Cetol used to. I've had it on for 3 years now. Still looks good and I've never done the yearly touch-up.
I pulled off all the exterior teak and re-finished at home over the winter. Handrails were the worst to do and re-install. I was thinking on my C-34 to replace with stainless. Also, I think Plas-teak makes handrails in teak color and white. Maintenance free, although I don't like the look of the Plas-teak. Really looks fake but the white don't look too bad.
It all depends on the look that you love to look at! I have seen many owners simply leave their wood bare, and lightly sand off the gray every year with a power sander. It this is done yearly, the wood will keep a white-ish look as opposed to the worn gray look of bare teak. I do this with my cabintop teak handrails because it is really time consuming and a "pain" to varnish these long rails. However, I keep them covered all of the time with blue covers. In my case I varnish all of my other exterior teak with ephifanes high gloss. It does take time until you build up a lot of coats, and I have 12 coats. But I only have to re-coat once a year with 2 coats. This you must do. I would say the least amount of work would be to leave teak bare, and do a yearly touch-up sanding........ Good luck. We all have struggled with this issue at one time or another.....
Bob
If you want to pm me your email, i'll email you the Practical Sailor article. It was too large to post.
I know many people who have taken their handrails off to refinish or coat them but we always have left ours in place. I just do a really good job of taping and then coat on a windless day (might as well since I can't go sailing). There are occasionally places where I miss but new Cetol comes off pretty easily. Removing the handrails and reinstalling them seems like a lot of unnecessary work.
As to the original post, I think the problem you may have had with the Cetol is not to use the Marine Natural as the base coat and then overcoat with the Cetol Gloss for the shiny finish. I would give that another try.
Here is a link to a recent Practical Sailor article that compares Cetol to another product and describes their experiences with the Cetol Gloss overcoat:
http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/37_9/features/whey_overdue_recoat_10575-1.html
Leave them raw ...
clean every year with a teak clean or deck clean and good scrub.
will always look nice and one job less so you get to sail more
cheers
Tony
Here's my 2 cents. Walk the docks at your marina or yacht club. Look at what others are doing, and what appeals to you. Compliment them on their bright work and most will willing share what they do. The work to keep up any finish varries with the local conditions. What will last 2 seasons here in Erie, PA the FL sun will distroy in 6 mo. My yacht club is beside a well traveled road and under an airport glide path, unfinished teak tends to turns black, not the good looking silvery color. Your boat your choice.
Jim
Might as well add my 2¢ to this also.
Over the last 37+ years of boating I've done battle with my teak and the finish on it and mostly lost until a few years ago.
I've tried all of the previously mentioned methods with the exception of paint. I just can't bring myself to paint teak. I think it may be grounds for excommunication from sailing or something like that. I'm certain it's a Mortal Sin at the minimum.
When I purchased my 31' Allmand and started my little fix up project on the exterior. New bottom job, barrier coat and VC-17, then all new opening ports and overhead hatches, the exterior waterline to waterline refinished with polyurethane epoxy and, of course, all new teak handrails, toe rails, coming box trim, cockpit table, etc. I found myself again head to head with my bright work battle.
After identifying my real enemy (the Sun) it became apparent that I needed a new tactic if I was to at least fight to a stalemate. That's when I bought a Thompson Walking Foot Sewing machine and binding feeder. I commence to teach myself how to sew and made Sunbrella covers for every piece of exterior wood that I had taken the time to put the tropical recommendation of Epiphany's which was 6+ coats. The teak looked as if it was encapsulated in high sheen plastic. Yes, I had to remove the covers every time I used the boat but would leave them off for the weekend or week cruising. When I wasn't at the boat, all the teak was sheltered from the sun. I had the Allmand proably seven years following that and never recoated the teak. It looked as good the day I sold it as the first year I did it.
Steve
visit us at www.ocontoyachtclub.com (http://www.ocontoyachtclub.com)
I agree that sun protection is as important as the actual number of coats of varnish applied to your teak. I have a full deck cover, a dodger, and a binmany. Every piece of teak has a cover. I can say that in my case, my boat faces southwest in my slip, so the cabintop deck bares the brunt of the heat during the day, especialy in the summer time. The teak in the cockpit, which has individual covers, plus the protection of the dodger and binminy, and gets mid-day and afternoon shade, fares very well. The deck however, especially the eyebrows, and hatch slides, needs a maintenance coat every six months to be sure that the varnish does not breakdown too much. This is even with 12 coats of varnish! However, this is a quick two coat maintenace application and it does the trick. I keep an eye on this area, and take care of it when I start to see some breakdown of the varnish. However the areas that are more protected do not require that frequent attention. Because this is my last boat, I spent the big boat bucks for all of this sunbrella canvas. And yes, it is a "job" to remove and replace it all. But it certainly helps to maintain the gelcoat and teak over the long haul. Like any loving relationship, there is no easy way! It takes attention, effort and work to keep it up.... But it sure is beautiful to look at!
Quote from: stevewitt1 on February 21, 2013, 12:04:09 PM
Might as well add my 2¢ to this also.
Over the last 37+ years of boating I've done battle with my teak and the finish on it and mostly lost until a few years ago.
I've tried all of the previously mentioned methods with the exception of paint. I just can't bring myself to paint teak. I think it may be grounds for excommunication from sailing or something like that. I'm certain it's a Mortal Sin at the minimum.
...
After identifying my real enemy (the Sun) it became apparent that I needed a new tactic if I was to at least fight to a stalemate. That's when I bought a Thompson Walking Foot Sewing machine and binding feeder. I commence to teach myself how to sew and made Sunbrella covers for every piece of exterior wood that I had taken the time to put the tropical recommendation of Epiphany's which was 6+ coats. The teak looked as if it was encapsulated in high sheen plastic. Yes, I had to remove the covers every time I used the boat but would leave them off for the weekend or week cruising. When I wasn't at the boat, all the teak was sheltered from the sun. I had the Allmand proably seven years following that and never recoated the teak. It looked as good the day I sold it as the first year I did it.
Steve
visit us at www.ocontoyachtclub.info (http://www.ocontoyachtclub.info)
Hi Everyone,
Thank you all for your comments on bright-work. Here is what I am going to do. I will use my heat gun and strip off the varnish on the two short handrails near the cockpit. I will sand them down. I do have Sunbrella covers for all of the hand rails, albeit they are not in perfect shape. They will get covered, but not yet coated with anything. I have companionway slats with Lexan windows. I will
CAREFULLY remove the varnish with my heat gun being very diligent near the Lexan. If the heat shows any signs of softening the Lexan I will revert to sandpaper. Next I will go back to my Cetol and apply one coat of the color Cetol and see how it dries and looks. If it looks reasonable, I will apply the second color coat and the third coat with the clear Cetol.
Cheers,
Bob
Bob, I just used my new heat gun on some boat wood. Do NOT use it anywhere near plastic. You need the high heat to get the scraper hot, too. Buy some gel stripper and be very careful. You can be a LOT more careful with the gel than with the heat gun. I now know.
Guys : A note of caution to anyone that uses stripper on the teak while it is still mounted on the boat - DO NOT LET ANY OF THAT STRIPPER GET ON TO THE PORT LIGHT LENSES. You'll never get the the chemical craze off!!
Alternatives to Heresy 101 - get stainless or artificial teak !! A thought
I refinished my teak with Signature Honey Teak two part. A bit more mixing is required but it looks like varnish and holds up well. You can give it a quick overcoat each year for the UV and seems to to work well.
I don't like the the orange blah look to Cetol but each to his own.
Hawk
I've heard that "orange" comment about Cetol from many people and I don't think it is correct as it relates to the Marine Natural Teak product, which I think matches up exceptionally well with the good varnish jobs I have seen. Everyone is entitled to their preference, of course, but I don't think the Cetol products are all the same.
I think the new Cetol has better UV inhibitors so it doesn't turn the orange color anymore.
Attached are a couple of photos of our brightwork before I added the Cetol Gloss top-coating. This may give you an idea of the color you will get from the Cetol Marine Natural Teak.
Sand with 80 grit, finish with 120
Epifanes Woodfinish Gloss 8 coats ( no sanding between coats required)
Finish with Epifanes ClearvGloss
1 coat in spring and 1 in fall to maintain
Use Sunbrella covers whenever possible
Get Rebecca Wittman's the Brightwork Companion
I love that everyone thinks that their method/product is the best, which is as it should be. The opposite is the boat owner who doesn't care, which is as it too often is.
I use Cetol Marine, translucent. No color is stated on the can but it has that fresh ground cinnamon color.
I don't sand. I use Utility razor blades as a scraper, way faster than sanding and no dust, just fine shavings.
A used blade is better than a new one in that it's not quite so sharp. But the new ones don't stay sharp for long. Also: Cetol clogs sandpaper in seconds.
Dont forget to bleach the teak before application of the Cetol or the black fungus will continue to grow under the finish.
I was sitting on the cabin top with a beer in one hand and a razor blade in the other on a nice day underway for about 4 hours... spent an hour or two scraping the old Cetol off. It only takes about 2-3 blades to do both rails on the cabin top.
Not saying this is the best way or the right way but the results speak for themselves.
Good luck!
Advice I was given years ago for canvas is that bleach does NOT kill the fungus, only takes away any colour. High concentrate saltwater will kill the fungus and then brush away when dry. Maybe would work on the teak too?
Tony
Tomorrow I will post a picture of the finished motor mount after Cetol. I have been posting high resolution pictures by referencing the images on my website. I want to try using a low-res picture directly attached to this post. Bob
The second picture is the "after." The glare is really the reflection of a shiny surface. I am very pleased with the result of Cetol. Once I have removed all of the old varnish from the handrails I will Cetol that too. Doing a careful finish removal is a slow job. It may take me a few weeks to get this job done.