Message for Peggie....In the recent Practical Sailor, two individuals wrote in about some products they use and would like PS to evaluate. One is called BacTankT3 and the other is called Happy Campers (this one advertised as an RV product). Do you have any experience with these two products?
Thanks!!
Good question Roc. I read the latest PS issue and wondered the same. There was also a PS review of waste tank vent filters. I recall Peggy was not an advocate but the article suggests there is some good application for a vent filter. Perhaps Peggy can comment as well?
BacTank is a Raritan K.O. wannabe...Barbara Nolan (whom I've known for years) first introduced it several years before I sold my product line that includes K.O. to Raritan and has been trying to get it into national distribution ever since.
I've never heard of Happy Camper.
And as for vent line filters, the contractor who did the testing for PS makes and sells 'em.
Thanks Peggy. I'll stay the course with Odorless and KO and continue planning my vent line upgrade for this spring. Your input is invaluable. :clap
Paul,
I've been trying to decide how to run a new holding tank vent line on my 1990, have you decided how to install yours? Any advice is welcome.
Thanks,
Rick
Rick,
Reading the forum information has been as far as I've gotten with a new vent hose installation to date. Unfortunately, I have another month of winter before getting back to the boat for spring work.... then, I plan to review all the material again here and begin to install a new vent hose without routing it to the stanchion. There is good information here about best approaches and some limitations to the size of the hose in prior forum threads. Also, removing an older macerator and very foul smelling hose this past fall, thoroughly cleaning the waste tank, anticipating installing new waste hose and changing the vent hose/location this spring, I'm fairly certain I'll solve the foul odor issue that has plagued us whenever someone used the head. Odorless and KO have been a huge help so far.
Paul
Any of y'all who'd like to brainstorm reventing a tank are welcome to email me. I'll be glad to help.
I drilled a hole in the inspection port cover (figured if something went wrong, worst case is I buy a new cover). Put in an elbow and routed the line into the cubby hole areas in the port side behind the cushions. When I did this, Peggie suggested a gradual slope, so the line runs forward, into the cabinet, port side in the V-berth and loops around and out the side of the boat. The outlet is far enough forward so if the rail is in the water, any water won't siphon in. The hose diameter I used was what Peggie suggested.
Roc,
Perfect - nice installation - one of the first to do's on this year's spring list. Looks like it all fits well under the settee too. I hope that's the case for me. Assuming you did not keep the older vent hose, what did you use to seal the hole thru the deck beneath the stanchion?
Paul,
I did keep the original vent that leads to the stanchion (that's the little white hose in the background). Leaving it just adds to the air circulation. Don't bother to get rid of it, just change the type of hose. The factory used reinforced PVC hose (same as what's used for your water system), which is not supposed to be used for sanitation. The elbow attached to the inspection port cover does not impede the board that fits over to hold the cushion.
Roc,
Doesn't the original vent then allow water to leak down? How do you have the interior end of the hose set up?
Frederick,
In my limited experience to date with the C34, the only time I had a large amount of water come down into the waste tank happened after an overzealous crewmember winched down the plastic waste cap after a pumpout cracking it at the top of the threaded section. Rain running aft and down the deck went into the discharge line until the tank expanded and pushed the settee board noticeably up a few inches. Of course, I only noticed this when the tank was frozen solid in the middle of winter. Thankfully, all was intact come spring! :D
Roc was wise to leave the older vent line. I hope to be able to do the same. I'm sure Peggy will tell us more air means less odor.
I quess what I asked wasn't clear. I'm wondering if the original vent line is acting as a second vent line to the tank (i.e. two vent to the tank), or is Roc saying that the original vent that he kept is open to the locker and venting the locker space (which is what I understood) and not the tank. Ergo, my concern about water getting in the boat.
Frederick,
I left the original vent line intact.....so now I have 2 vents. The original leading from the tank to the stanchion....and the new vent that I added to the opening port cover, leading out the side of the boat, below rub rail. I attached a picture showing the original vent still attached to the tank. Note, I since changed the factory reinforced PVC hose to white sanitation for the original vent. I also attached a picture showing the new vent led forward on it's way into the v-berth, via the cubby holes in the port side.
Hope this helps clarify things.
Roc-
A couple of things...
I'm a little confused by your first photo (image 2288), it appears that the white hose is somehow connected--without hose clamps--to clear hose...or something? What IS that? Also, it seems to me that you might have been able to route that hose to C-clamp it along the top of the cubby instead of running it up in plain view.
You really should put a second clamp on everything that doesn't have one...screws 180 apart.
Incredible that Catalina would not only have used nylon water hose for the vent line, but also PIECED it! Surely that was done by a PO?
Peggy,
Our 1987 has "water" hose on the vent fitting, secured with only one clamp. It's on my to do list to change it to white 148 hose in the coming weeks. Just replaced all of the 1 1/12 inch hose in the system. All double clamped 180 degree apart where I could get them 180, other wise there is one that I could only do about 45 degrees apart, the one going into the macerator. It is kind of amazing that the factory would put water hose in that system. Just one of those things that make you go, hmmmmm.
Ralph
Looks like the extra hose is for chafing protection.
No mistake about the pic, it's only chafe protection. Please let us know if this dual vent has any affect on the emitted odor from pumping the head. After replacing all hose and vent lines,then,for an entire season, only putting water from fresh water holding tanks, urine and Odorloss in the holding tank, with the occasional minimal amount of hand soap in my sanitation system, result: STINKS! According to input from this forum, Odorloss will not work if ANY soap chemical is added. Since I have my head intake connected to my head sink, as suggested by many on this forum, No lake or sea water enters the system only the water used in the head sink. Under these conditions, with the tank vent as factory, the tank smell is no different than when I got the boat from the previous owner. I'm not convinced that better venting is going to make any difference. If anyone is using Odorloss with great results please detail the conditions under which this is happening. I would love to experience this Loss of Odor !!
Odor is always a result of insufficient oxygen...and if Odorlos--which helps to promote oxygen release from the waste itself--isn't working, NOTHING will...which means your tank vents are only allowing gasses to be forced OUT, they're not allowing any exchange of air with those gasses. It's fixable...email me and we'll figure out what you need to do.
What you see is chafe protection. When I put in the dual vents, I was using KO. But towards the time when pump out was needed, I would smell the tank fumes in the cockpit, on a port tack (that's because air was entering my new vent on the port side and exiting out of the stanchion hole from the original vent). I followed KO directions and only used it at the first flush after pump-out, then I didn't add anymore until the tank was pumped again. That would be 2-3 weeks time (more or less depending on how the boat was used over those weeks). I then switched to Odorloss, which I believe says to use once a week or so. For Odorloss, I use it at the end of the weekend, or the first flush after pump-out, whichever comes first. I also seem to remember I figured Odorloss was more cost effective, even if you use it more often. Since using Odorloss, there is absolutely no smell whatsoever.
My experience for a season and a half mimics what Roc is saying. The vent was the source of the foulest odor imaginable until changing over chemistry and doing what Roc describes. And, it should improve again with another vent line if I can do it this spring. A suggestion for a fresh water flush - when I bought the C34 the rear water tank fed the head intake only. The PO must have felt it was better to sacrifice water tankage for a fresh water head flush. I changed it back because we're on a fresh water lake. However, I still grab the shower hose from the sink and spray down the toilet for a final rinse with boat water followed by KO at the end of a day or when leaving the boat. All smells much better.
Indian Falls,
I don't think you are getting much good from using the sink water to flush. Unless you dock in a real stagnet area Great Lakes water isn't that bad. I'm not to sure about all the chemicals in "City Water" in a holding tank. That is unless the boat is unused for weeks at a time.
Just my 2 cents.
Jim
I seem to always have the exception to the rule...
The harbor water is usually pretty muddy, a lot of silt comes down the creek fouling the water where we were the last 3 seasons. This season will be different since we've moved. This and the sink connection info on this forum are why it is hooked up this way. I flush with municipal water that occasionally has some soap from hand washing in it.
Many of our boats still have the factory setup for venting and someone is enjoying odorless operation. Is that a true statement? And how is that possible? I've even tried pumping the head 4 or 5 times per day just to add fresh air to the tank. However it may be possible that the municipal water at the marina has too much chlorine in it for Odorloss to work. Is that a possibility?
This season we're going to use Lake Ontario water in the head and see what we get. I can't add a better vent so I'm stuck with what I've got. Other research points out that powered tank ventilators don't work either.
Maybe ROC can confirm that no chlorine or soap residue enters his tank and whether or not he achieved this goal after putting in the second vent? I agree with Peggy that the factory setup does not allow the tank to experience a draft.
I've even tried pumping the head 4 or 5 times per day just to add fresh air to the tank.
That doesn't accomplish anything.
However it may be possible that the municipal water at the marina has too much chlorine in it for Odorloss to work. Is that a possibility?
Nope...
I can't add a better vent so I'm stuck with what I've got.
Yes, you can!
Other research points out that powered tank ventilators don't work either.
Do you want to solve this problem or just whine about it? If you want to solve it, email me!
Finding scads of info about failed powered tank ventilators is not quite whining, nor would I be here at all if I didn't want to solve this problem. I'm wondering why it seems I'm doing nothing different than a majority of folks out there and my story of using Odorloss is different. I've been reading this forum from top to bottom for nearly 3 years, and somehow people with similar setup claim no smells, maybe they're full of it. I emailed Peggy on this before her taunting, now lets see what she's got.
I have the sink drain "tee-d' to the head intake. I flush with fresh water all the time. Never flush using gray water with soap from hand washing. I let that go down the drain and out the seacock. Also, only clean the toilet with CP.
Indian Falls,
your question
Many of our boats still have the factory setup for venting and someone is enjoying odorless operation. Is that a true statement? And how is that possible?
I have the factory setup, use odorless, and have no odor (well 95% and only outside the boat). The head gets used often..#1 & #2.. So yes, it is possible.
Our situations should be similar, you in Lake Ontario, me in Lake Erie. May be it's the pump outs. My yacht club is DIY pumpout, that I use often (rarely less than every 2 weeks) and flush the tank well every time. When traveling I pump out about every 5 days at the first handy place.
On my todo list is to add a second vent, as shown. It makes sense to me. I don't see the factory vent exchanging much air, only equalizing pressure.
I recommend that you read Peggie's book "Get Rid Of Boat Odors" wish the designers at Catalina would have.
Jim
I didn't get any email till last night...and I've replied. We CAN fix this!
As a point of clarification, I mispoke earlier........it's CP and not KO at the end of the day to clean the toilet. Sorry if this added to any confusion. Being away from the boat for months does fog the memory. :D
Indian Falls quotes (I can't add a better vent so I'm stuck with what I've got.)
Probably has the same problem I have with my "88", we don't have room under the settee to install a upgrade like Roc has, however, Peggy did suggest a vent outlet from the upper end of the holding tank. It would have to be on the aft end, which I am going to investigate this spring.