The first time I tried the shower sump it worked... kinda
Last weekend it didn't work at all. The pump makes lots of noise but it doesn't drain. At first I could put my finger in the drain and feel a little suction... but then it stopped sucking completely.
So I tried putting a Shurflo Bait Sentry 1100 in to replace it, because I had it. My buddy did the install while I installed the new DC panel. After he got it all hooked up it still wouldn't pump. I looked at how he installed it and think I can re-route the hoses to get it lower in the bilge... but I'm wondering if the bait pump will work or not. It has no problem running dry but maybe it's not self-priming?
I tried to check for a one-way valve or strainer but couldn't find one. I don't see any access under the shower pan. My thru-hull is a T connector that is shared with the head.
Is there any way to get access under the shower pan (where the drain connects, to check for strainers/etc)
Is my problem I need to get the pump lower and prime it somehow, or is it just the wrong pump for this application?
There should be a one-way valve. That would be my guess. Look at Ron Hill's suggestion about adding a strainer before the one-way valve. Before I did this, I replaced the valve 1-2 times per year. Now I just clean the strainer and haven't had any issues with the valve since.
First step is to clean your the one way valve. It is easier if you remove it. While it is out, pour some water down the shower drain and use a dingy pump or other source of pressurized air to blow the line out to ensure it is clear. Reattach everything and give it a try. A diaphram pump is the desired pump in this application, I don't think the rebuild kits are that expensive. If you are going to use the shower alot, definitely add the strainer. A small piece of scotchbrite pad works well.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4114.0.html Please read both pages.
Yeah I found that thread and then read the 2001 article (although I was late to work when I found it, so I didn't have time to post a "DUH found it response". So now I have to cut the access hole so I can get to it. What a terrible design!
What are you guys using for a strainer? A strainer like the one on the raw water intake to the motor? (I believe on my boat it's a shurflo) I'd like to come up with something that's easy to service, but I'm guessing it will always require pulling the floor up to get to that access panel.
Another odd thing I haven't had time to check the forums for... it appears there's some kind of water filter in the compartment under the sink in the head. I'm not sure if it 's for the hot or cold, but it seems odd to have one there and nowhere else.
Actually that's where I put my water filter. It was an easy place to mount it. And I figured the only raw tank water I'd ingest would be while brushing my teeth...
I guess strainer would be a better description than filter. You want to catch the hair etc before it goes down the drain. What works well is to cut a round plug the size of the drain in the shower pan from a scotch bright pad and stuff it in the drain. When it gets dirty, toss and install a new one. If you are real frugal, I guess you could clean it and reinstall
Ken's right. His method is to use Scotchbrite pads, Ron's is to use a fine mesh window screen material. The trick is to catch the stuff in the little round hole in the head floor before it gets into the sump. My Raritan check valve (linked above) is simply a more user-friendly check valve for servicing.
Quote from: noworries on April 21, 2011, 07:01:39 AM
So now I have to cut the access hole so I can get to it. What a terrible design!
Only if you "allow" crud to get through to it. And yes, it would have been helpful for the factory to provide the kind of access to the sump that was explained in the Tech Notes, but, unlike a traditional sump with a pump inside it, it's only pretty much a little box with no moving parts with a hose to the check valve and pump under the head sink, so it's not really that big a deal. I have my teak & holly sole piece off for refinishing, and can see that cutting that hole is not a lot of work. Earlier ideas were to make that hole a lot smaller than the Tech Notes show, just to be able to access the hose clamp on the hose to the head. Peggie Hall also suggested using CP to clean out the sump by pouring it into the hole in the head floor and pumping it out, and also cleaning the check valve.
Quote from: noworries on April 21, 2011, 07:01:39 AMAnother odd thing I haven't had time to check the forums for... it appears there's some kind of water filter in the compartment under the sink in the head. I'm not sure if it 's for the hot or cold, but it seems odd to have one there and nowhere else.
Sounds odd, too. Could be a PO item. We have a filter under our galley sink from the cold water side before it splits to the hw heater. It is there to catch anything before it gets to the fresh water pump.
The one way valve should not be "hidden". It should be in plain sight in the drain line before the pump. If you don't see it, perhaps a PO removed it. The factory knew it would have to be serviced at some point in it's life....they would not put it somewhere where you had to cut holes for access.
It is hard to see, but I think the one way valve is just visible inside the red circle.
I might try a mirror and see if I can see anything... but I'm fairly certain there's nothing on the hose that's visible from under the sink. Since it seems to pump when I use the toilet pump that would suggest there is nothing on there... I'll try getting the pump lower in the bilge and see if that helps.
Here's a picture of the funky water filter I found under there. It's mounted under the racor.
No : WOW !! I'd get ride of that water filter and get it under the GALLEY sink or do as I do and filter the water before it goes into the tank and at the faucet where it come out. The water filter you have is the same one that I adapted to a garden hose and use to fill my tanks.
To find your shower drain line, go into the head sink door and reach straight down - you should feel it. There is a black one way valve in that line like in Stu's picture. I'm sure it's clogged. Look at all of the posts and put in a new strainer and you should be good to go. :D
The water filter is under the sink... so is the racor... is that not normal?
I'm sure that filter needs to be serviced, so I'll have to find out what make/model it is next time I go down to the boat.
My checklist for "ready for the season" is getting shorter!
To do:
Fix shower sump
Replace holding tank vent hose (maybe install new thru-hull vent too)
Refinish teak
Wax & Polish fiberglass
Hope to take a big bite out of that work this weekend, and maybe actually go sailing too.
Quote from: noworries on April 21, 2011, 07:01:39 AMAnother odd thing I haven't had time to check the forums for... it appears there's some kind of water filter in the compartment under the sink in the head. I'm not sure if it 's for the hot or cold, but it seems odd to have one there and nowhere else.
It is different, but I don't think you've told us to what it is connected.
My guess is that the water filter is a whole boat filter, plumbed to the fresh water pump output. I have a charcoal one that is similiar under the galley sink. It is kind of a pain to change, but it only needs to be done 2 times a year so I live with it. Perhaps a PO was having fouled water problems and wanted easier access to the filter. If that is the case, the work is done, I'd leave it alone, but change the filter element. No idea when it was last done. A good source is an RV store.
No : What is normal is that only the Racor fuel filter is under the head sink. Some people install another water filter, but put it under the Galley sink.
You might consider doing what I said in the post above!!
I may just end up removing the filter. I like the idea of pre-filtering, or filtering after it comes out of the faucet (with one of those pitcher type filters)
I went down today and worked on the shower sump pump. I tried repositioning it as low as I could get it, but it still wouldn't pump.
So I pulled it out and tested it. It would pump. I had a friend "help" with the install, and turns out he didn't use enough tape on the fittings. So I got it to pump from a container. I put it back in the bilge and plumbed it back up, but it still was a no go. I believe the problem is I'm using a bait pump (Shurflo Bait Sentry 1100) and it's not the right pump. I can't really get it lower then the drain of the shower, and it just won't suck air.
I did investigate the hose coming off the drain and it appears to be spliced together where I could get to it, so I would presume the PO removed the strainer.
So can anybody recommend me a pump they know will work?
On another note, I was able to replace the holding tank vent hose, and I'm pretty sure that resolved the stinky smell. The hose was nasty... it was actually sticky to the touch in spots. It was regular water hose. I replaced it with sanitation hose 3/4" ID. It still runs to the stanchion, I figured I'd give the easy fix a try first.
I found the Jabsco Par Max 3 for $100 or Par Max 4 for $130
West Marine only carries the Par Max 4, which is rated at 4.3gpm. The 3 is rated at 3.5 gpm. The 4 is self priming to 10ft, can't find what the 3 is rated for.
Any recommendations or better ideas?
Looks like the 3 is discontinued so I'm leaning towards the 4.
I used the wale gulped. Love it!
After looking at the gulper I think I'm going to go that route. One big diaphragm vs. 4 small ones on the jabsco probably makes more sense. It's more money... but that shouldn't be a surprise.
I went with the jabsco first and it stopped working about 2 weeks later. I've had the Gulper for a while now and it just keeps on gulping!!!! Get the one way valve and strainer in place then get the pump going. While I did that to mine, I just let the shower drain into the bilge for a few days...
Quote from: noworries on April 22, 2011, 07:35:13 PM
I may just end up removing the filter. I like the idea of pre-filtering, or filtering after it comes out of the faucet (with one of those pitcher type filters)
Why would you do that if you haven't ye figured out what it is connected to?
As far as the pump is concerned, you need one that will LIFT water. A diaphragm pump will work, since that's what Catalina used. As Ron said, it's because it was the least expensive. If that's the case, there shouldn't be any reason not to use another one. Ron also explained (somewhere on this board) what he used to replace his diaphragm pump with a quieter one. Your bait pump ain't cuttin' it, so find one that WILL work.
The water filter is connected to the sink in the galley... either the hot or the cold... no mystery there.
Took the boat out today after putting another coat of cetol on the teak rails. It was blowing 15-22 knots. Ended up busting a dorade off (didn't realize a sheet was fouled on it from doing the teak) and the cover on the head sail is now ripped in 6-7 places.
I've never dropped the head sail before, so I guess I'll have to go searching to find out what's involved. The sail is 10 years old--seems like some of the stitching is failing as well... of course it didn't look that bad before we bought it.
Break Out Another Thousand... It was an expensive day on the water.
No Worries:
I just replaced my shower sump with the Whale Gulper and it works like a charm. These are made to handle waste water and not prone to clogging. It uses about half the amps the old "growler" did and is much quieter. A little more expensive, but I think well worth it. My two cents.
Got the gulper installed yesterday. I ordered it from Northern Tool for $178 shipped. I'm not sure I'd order again considering they took 4 business days to ship it, then they shipped it to the wrong address (looked like a typo on their part), and they shipped it in it's shelf box which was partially crushed (thin box not much packing material in it).
There was a splice in the hose coming from the shower drain to the old pump. I've never seen anything like it on the forum so I thought I'd post about it. It was a one-way valve made out of some kind of plastic insert into the hose. The hose was cone shaped so it could slide into the other hose without a barb. I busted the one way valve out so I wouldn't have to worry about it clogging and added it back because the hose wouldn't reach the pump otherwise. I'm not sure if it was some kind of home brew or what.
Amazing how quiet it is and how good it works!
now : What Catalina did was to put a 1/2" dia one way valve in to a 3/4" line - so they added a sleeve piece to take up the space!!