Just installed a new Mondo alternator with a internal regulator from Blue Circle, before installation, I changed the #10 output wire from the switch to a Positive Buss bolt, which is connected to the starter solenoid. (after I did a harness upgrade) at the engine instrument panel.
My new Alternator got so hot I can smell it, and the case will sizzle water, I am thinking it is because the battery voltage is down in the 11.3-5 area after a weekend, and it is working so hard, I don't remember this happening when I had my motorala 55 in.I have 4 T105's, I'm thinking I will have to replace the batteries as they are 5 years old and even on shore power charging, I can't get them above 12.10-20, and maybe that is the whole problem. or maybe I need a bigger wire from the output on the Alt.
But will the Alternator get so hot it will destroy itself by trying to charge 4 discharged Golf cart batteries? Ironically even at 11.3-5 volts, measured with a DVM at the batteries, my engine will spin right over and start.
I have checked the archives and some say they like the heat coming out of the head door, so maybe it is normal that hot, I don't think so though any advice, Thanks guys
Bob, you're right. Attempting to charge a depleted house bank with an alternator will do that. Alternators are good for maintaining the house bank between 50% and 80 to 85% of charge. The reason you old alternator didn't do that was because it was a tapering charger on a relatively small alternator not made for charging larger house banks, and that after it started up didn't do too much, although Maine Sail contends that old internal chargers will do just fine in that range. You neglected to mention the size of your new alternator. That #10 wire was dangerous. Please move your alternator output directly to your house bank --- we've discussed this a number of times --- Reply #11 here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.0.html) I don't understand your positive buss bolt description, can you elaborate a bit as to exactly how it's wired? With a seriously depleted bank, whatever your charging source is, you're gonna work it overtime. Maine Sail discussed this in a topic on the C36 site just today: see: http://www.c36ia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=806 Internal regulators do not allow the Small Engine Mode that I documented here, available with external regulators, nor do they allow battery or alternator temperature sensors. If it was my boat, I'd carefully check the batteries with a hydrometer for condition, charge them fully with a shorepower charger, and then rewire it properly: AO to house bank, C post of 1-2-B switch to starter solenoid. That "heat out of the head door" was a joke by Randy. So was #10 wire in a charging circuit.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on July 07, 2010, 10:36:53 PM
Maine Sail contends that old internal chargers will do just fine in that range.
Stu,
This is only if the internal regulator set point is above 14v. Some of the older regulators were factory set as low as 13.6 - 13.8 which makes the last 20% take a very long time compared to an alt delivering a higher voltage.. The dumb regulator I use has adjustable voltage output and can be bolted directly to an older Motorola style case if you have one of the old 13.6 v regulators. Today most dumb regs ship at 14.2-14.4 volts output..
There is a little white screw that lets you adjust the output voltage set point.
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/110668640.jpg)
From roughly 50% to 80% SOC, the battery use range we should be in for cruising, even a regulator set at 13.6 will perform nearly identically to an external regulator it's the last 20% that will take forever with a low voltage output set point, up the set point and it will charge the last 20% with no issues..
I suspect the Bob has a bad cell if he can't get the voltage up above 12.1 even on a shore power charger but the charger could also be the culprit. I would check the cells with a hydrometer firts as you suggested..
Stu, thanks for your reply, I have a Mondo (exact bolt on) from Blue circle, it is a 50 amp internally regulated alternator, the blue circle shop is only 30 miles from me. the positive buss bolt was a add on by me as I needed more room on the starter solenoid bolt. I ran a #4 wire from the starter solenoid bolt to the new + bolt. which is fastened by the small door by the AO
The wire that came out of the previous alternator output went to the switch, (a 10 or 12 gauge orange wire) and back to the starter solenoid. I shortened that OEM wire and connected it to the starter solenoid. I am a little confused, you mentioned that #10 wire was dangerous, I think It is what OEM had in there, albiet through the switch. did you mean it becomes dangerous when it is shortened and ran directly to the starter solenoid?
Here is where it gets a little confusing to me, If I run a Alt output wire directly to the house batteries, do I come off the output post on the Alt with a #4 wire, and snake it to the house bank under the floor sole and connect it one of the house batteries?
And do I run a new #4 wire from the C Post on the battery selector switch to the starter solenoid as per your Fig 3 drawing
In any event, I better check my batteries over real good with a hydrometer before I fry my Alternator. With new T105's fully charged. i'm thinking connected in series, they should read around 12.8 volts,
Thanks guys, bear with me please, I do have a dedicated starter battery behind the engine, and a battery combiner.
Bob
Bob,
It does sound like you might have a bad battery cell or charger problem. 12.1V is too low. I also have 4 T105s and after two full days at anchor and down 145AH they are at about 12.4V.
It's also true that your alternator will get very hot charging a depleted house bank. I panicked a few months after installing my Ample alternator because it, too, would sizzle water. Ample told to me to quite worrying - that the alternator was designed to run that hot. THat was many years ago and all is still well. Heat out door was not entirely a joke as per Stu. I'd never advocate a dangerous practice like warming your hands in front of that open door but when you start out on a cold, wet morning down 225 AH, and can get the Admiral to steer, well, you know...sorry Stu couldn't resist.
Randy
thank you Randy, I just bought 4 new 105s and will install tomorrow, will run a new wire directly to one of the battery banks, and use a dvm to see if both banks are being charged, , and check out my 12B switch and see about running a wire to the solinoid from the C post, I believe that is what is being suggested by Stu, thanks again guys Bob
Bob, I think you understand it now. You should already have a #4 wire from the C post of the 1-2-B switch to the {alternator starter solenoid} location. I simply don't know how you were wired originally, but that #4 should go to the starter solenoid, and the new #2 AO to your house bank per Figure 3.
Do not forget to include a fuse in the circuit on directly wiring to the house bank. Otherwise you have a hot wire in a high vibration environment. If the bolts on the alternator come undone or the wire chafes you'll have near unlimited energy welding your engine in new and interesting ways before it burns your boat to the waterline. I even go so far as to wrap the handles of wrenches in electrical tape if I work these connections live.
Steve's experience with his runaway alternator has led me to recommend placing the fuse inline with a circuit breaker, Blue Seas Series 187 looks like it will work.
While you're at it, you should do a wiring diagram BEFORE you make any changes. If you do that, you'll begin to understand the system MUCH better. See the diagrams here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.0.html), which I'd previously linked, Reply #12 has a great simplified overall diagram.
Guys : On a related item for the alternator, you should consider using a self locking nut on the output stud rather than a nut and lock washer. A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on July 12, 2010, 02:42:52 PM
Guys : On a related item for the alternator, you should consider using a self locking nut on the output stud rather than a nut and lock washer. A thought
Ron,
I love nylocs but ever since having melted the "loc" part of one, and subsequently had the nut get loose, on a hot engine component, I stopped using them on items that can very get hot. I still use lock washers on alt outputs and have never had one come loose. An alt post should not, key words "should not", get that hot but if you really ran it hard it
could potentially get to the upper limits of the safe working range of a Nyloc which is about 280F....
Quote from: mainesail on July 12, 2010, 05:37:08 PM
Ron,
I love nylocs but ever since having melted the "loc" part of one, and subsequently had the nut get loose, I stopped using them on items that can get hot. I still use lock washers on alt outputs and have never had one come loose. I doubt an alt post would get that hot but just a thought...
I had an alternator fail as the insulation around the post melted and it arced and sparked. A nyloc on the post would certainly have melted. I now use a lock washer and a second nut to lock on the alternator post.
OK, little update, I have installed 4 brand new T105's, ran a #6 wire from the output on the alternator to the house bank battery. The starter solenoid wire ran from the C post, or the All post on my selector. one set of 2 Trojans is connected to the 1 position and the other set is on the #2 position, I fully charged the new set of house batterys with the shore power charger, then went out with the boat, the next morning, after being on the hook, I started the engine and after about 45 minutes at 2000 rpm, smoke started coming out from the engine compartment, the new alternator was so hot it locked up and the belt started to slip.
I couldn't turn it with a bar, after cooling about 1/2 hour I could spin the alternator, started the motor and went to the slip, if I kept the rpms to 1200, it would stay cool, at 1500 rpms, it would start to heat up again.
I took the alternator to the Blue Circle guy I got it from and he bench tested it for 45 minutes with no ill effects, told me the belt was either too tight, or one of the new batteries was bad, old Harvey from blue circle said a alternator should never get hot if set up right.
Anybody got any ideas why, with new batteries, and a new alternator it should get so hot it seized? Thank you Bob
It sounds like a wiring issue.
1. The C post of your 1-2-B is NOT the B position. Please re-read my earlier link which clearly said, IN RED, to not confuse the two because i made a mistake when I drew those sketches. B is a position C is a post where wires are connected.
2. #6 wire for AO from the alternator to your house bank is very close to being too small. 50A alternator could put out maybe 30 A, #6 wire is good for 30A for 35 feet at 3% voltage drop. I used a #2 wire. Much larger. How are your ground wires arranged?
3. You have two equal banks with (2) 6V batteries in each bank. Which did you choose as your "house" bank, i.e., where does your alternator output (AO) go? How do you charge the second one? With 4 T105s, 2 on each side of the switch, where does your AO go? Based on Dave's sketch in Reply #12 in that link, his "start" bank is simply 2 of your 4 6V banks, and the "house" is the other.
Harvey from blue circle said a alternator should never get hot if set up right.
He's right. Please sketch up a wiring diagram of what you did, like we suggested earlier, 'cuz from previous discussions it appears that perhaps some wiring issues may be in play.
Maine Sail,
I would think that if someone has their nyloc lock-nut melt on an alternator or near the engine somewhere, they have some other issues to contend with. If things are getting hot enough for the nyloc to melt, we have bigger issues... :D Wouldn't you agree? Having said that, I too use lock washers on most everything around the engine, but then, I guess I am old fashioned and conservative.
Quote from: mainesail on July 12, 2010, 05:37:08 PM
Quote from: Ron Hill on July 12, 2010, 02:42:52 PM
Guys : On a related item for the alternator, you should consider using a self locking nut on the output stud rather than a nut and lock washer. A thought
Ron,
I love nylocs but ever since having melted the "loc" part of one, and subsequently had the nut get loose, I stopped using them on items that can get hot. I still use lock washers on alt outputs and have never had one come loose. I doubt an alt post would get that hot but just a thought...
Quote from: SeaFever on August 05, 2010, 10:05:51 AM
Maine Sail,
I would think that if someone has their nyloc lock-nut melt on an alternator or near the engine somewhere, they have some other issues to contend with. If things are getting hot enough for the nyloc to melt, we have bigger issues... :D Wouldn't you agree? Having said that, I too use lock washers on most everything around the engine, but then, I guess I am old fashioned and conservative.
Clearly if the nyloc melts there is a bigger issue, but this is not a trivial circuit. But what if you do have a bigger issue? If you are running direct to your battery bank with a high output alternator and #2 or bigger cable with 100A or bigger fuse (you must always fuse this) and 4T105s, if that cable falls off your alternator you have a runaway arc welder in your engine room - even with the fuse. You can burn a hole through your oil pan & sieze your engine before you burn your boat to the waterline :shock:. This is not like a light circuit with #16 wire and two levels of protection (you have fused your main bank right?) between your fault and all the energy of the battery bank. It's a beast and demands to be treated with old fashioned conservative respect. No different than double hose clamps on through hulls below the water line.
And I have seen the insulation melt on the output post of a high output alternator. Nylocs don't belong there. I've also welded a hole through the back of my son's iPod touch, but I would rather not have to explain how I did this with the alternator in a public forum...
Guys : Sorry, that I missed the previous posts.
BTW, there are other types of selflocking nuts that just nylon!! Look at the inside the hull lock nut holding on the struts of Catalina's. The nut is a compression with vertical slits.
Another fix is a second nut (jam nut) on top of the first nut. This is still much better than the old stainless lock washer that doesn't hold its resiliency! In any case, making a slippage mark will let you see if the nut is backing off.
I agree with Mah and Lance, if the nylon melts in the self locking nut, you have a Bigger problem than just heat!. BTW, any nut should be tightened very snug, whether it is self locking or not!
A few thoughts
Stu, thanks, I am going up to the boat today, one of my house banks is wired to the 1 position on my Perko switch, the other house bank is wired to the 2 position, the new AO is wired to one of the house banks, I leave the battery selector switch in the All positon. The starter solenoid is wired to the ALL position in back of the switch, I only have 3 terminals in back of my Perko battery selector, 1.2.and all. I don't see anything that remembles a "C", will check your drawing again. (Jim Moes boat is in the marina and hopefully I can get advice there also)
I do have a dedicated start battery with its own isolation switch and a combiner in the system.
I havn't paid much attention to the two ground wires from each bank, (I will now) but I do see they are connected to the engine.
Every thing is set up exactly like it was for the previous 5 years with no issues, except the new wire from the AO going to one of the house banks, (I'm thinking both banks would get a charge with the selector switch in the all position)
Previously the old AO was a number 12 or 10 orange wire that ran all the way up to the switch. I shortened it and ran it to the starter solenoid, but the Alt heated up, then I ran the #6 to the house bank, same results.
Harvey at blue circle told me to run the AO to a test battery just to see what happens, I'll try that too. which would eliminate all the house bank wiring in an attempt to narrow it down
I am agreeing with you it is probably a wiring issue, as it seems worse after a night on the hook. Or it could be a bad new battery, will check with a hydrometer
Thanks to you all, really appreciated (my batteries are fused with 125 amp for the #4 wire, and 100 amp for the #6 AO wire)
Bob
Quote from: Bobg on August 06, 2010, 08:10:31 AM
1. The starter solenoid is wired to the ALL position in back of the switch,
2. I only have 3 terminals in back of my Perko battery selector, 1.2.and all. I don't see anything that remembles a "C", will check your drawing again. (Jim Moes boat is in the marina and hopefully I can get advice there also)
3. I do have a dedicated start battery with its own isolation switch and a combiner in the system.
4. I shortened it and ran it to the starter solenoid, but the Alt heated up, then I ran the #6 to the house bank, same results.
5. I am agreeing with you it is probably a wiring issue, as it seems worse after a night on the hook. Or it could be a bad new battery, will check with a hydrometer.
1. Nope, sorry you can't do that, see #2.
2. As a repeat item, there simply is no ALL post on the 1-2-B switch. There are three POSTS on the switch, 1, 2 and C (common). There are four POSITIONS on the switch, Off, 1, Both, 2. If you look at Dave's wiring diagram on that link, he shows it, so does my IN RED note on my long post. C is where the power from your position of choice sends the current OUT from the switch. Get your head around this concept and you'll start to understand.
3. Maybe now you understand why we suggest you send us a wiring diagram and explain everything up front. As I recall, you mentioned the separate starter battery in an earlier post. You may want to stop complicating your life. Stop separating your house bank(s) with the 1-2-B for separating your house banks, and simply make them one big house bank. You are shortening the life of them if you keep them separate with the same daily load (draw), but putting them together on ALL with the switch combines anyway them, right? So why bother with the 1-2-B switch for your house bank? Either choose to have two separate banks (i.e., house bank and reserve or start bank) with one separate ON/OFF switch and a 1-2-B switch like Jim Moe's diagram (http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Catalina_34_Electrical_System_Upgrade), OR drop the other on/off switch to your reserve bank and use ONE simple 1-2-B switch, like my system, and just like Dave's drawing. http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=104505 I helped Jim edit that Tech wiki piece of his in 2004, and not much has changed. Say hi to Jim and Jennie for me.
4. #6 is still too small. Just like last week's answer. And just like your first post: or maybe I need a bigger wire from the output on the Alt. I'll still bet that's what's causing your problem. That and it could be the wiring of your separate reserve bank, which may be "on" to the starter solenoid at the same time your house bank is, too, which could be "combining" your house and reserve banks. You wrote: If I run a Alt output wire directly to the house batteries, do I come off the output post on the Alt with a #4 wire, and snake it to the house bank under the floor sole and connect it one of the house batteries? And do I run a new #4 wire from the C Post on the battery selector switch to the starter solenoid as per your Fig 3 drawing Answer: yes and no. A new AO to the house bank. You can use #4 with your 50A alternator, but I recommend a #2 just in case you want a larger output alternator inthe future. You do NOT need to run a new wire from the 1-2-B switch to the starter solenoid because that wire should already be there.
5. See #4 above, but not a bad idea to check your batteries with the hydrometer.
You, and we to help you, need a wiring diagram, because otherwise we're just guessing.
Your discussion of #12 or #10 wiring between the alternator and starter solenoid and, as you said, "to the switch" appears to be something related to the engine wiring harness, http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Engine_Harness_Upgrade. That small wiring did also go to the 1-2-B switch, and was the old small, inadequate AO wiring to the old ammeters in the cockpit panel and back to the batteries. That may be what you were referring to.
As I suggested earlier, drawing a wiring diagram first before you do anything, and then a final one, will go a long way to understanding what you have, for both you and for us to help you out.
This long link may help, too. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5159.0.html
Hi, am attempting to send a crude wiring diagram, I drew it out and took a picture of it, hope you can understand it. tried to scan, but came out horrible, I am going to change the ALT output wire to a #2 when I get to the boat, this alternator heats up sizzling hot so quickly, (30-60 seconds) and stays hot for an hour or so.
The arrangement you see in the picture has worked for years, trouble started when I lost continuity on the AO wire, due to the melted wiring harness plug at the cockpit instrument panel. I cut the connecting plug out and hard wired the connections to their prospective terminals. I did not redo the plug at the engine as it looked fine, is it possible there is still a problem with the harness to make the alt heat up so fast? with all connections off the alt, it does not heat up while running. I also checked the new batteries with a expensive battery checker, and I did the SP check, everything fine. I tried dropping the DP ground off the battery to eliminate shorts at the DP.
All Ground connections have been removed and cleaned, actually the one on the bell housing was in terrible shape, the ring terminal came off in my hand, I thought "Eureka" thats it, crimped and soldered a new one on, cleaned the connection, to no avail.
I tried a spare Alt and that heats up too.
If one end of the wiring harness was bad, chances are the other end is also bad. Plugs themselve may look clean, but no way to see corrosion inside the rubber. Before I went any farther, I would change the other plug.
Without re reading the whole thread, it appears from your wiring diagram that the only way to charge the second house bank is to have the battery switch in both. Since you have the banks split for a reason, would it not be easier to add a automatic charge relay/echo charger to automatically charge the other house bank?
I have a couple of questions regarding my batteries & alternator. I have Prestolite 51 amp alt. ( Not sure what the internal regulator is set at). I have a 310 AH house system and a separate start battery. What would be the consequences if I added a smart 3 stage reg. to the alternator without upgrading to a larger output alternator. If I'm looking at say being 60-70 amps down on my batteries when I initially start the engine is there any difference in the operation of the alternator whether it has just an internal reg. compared to a external one. Also, Mainsail discussed the mod. of an older Alt. to upgrade it to raise the reg. set point to 14.4V, how much difference will that make? Thanks for any help.
Bob,
Very good job on the wiring diagram. It is very helpful both to us & to you!
From this distance, and from your notes and the diagram itself, here's what I can offer so far:
1. Wiring harness--- I agree completely with Ken. If one end is shot, the other end MUST be redone, too. I have never heard of anyone who only did one end, 'cuz it's hotter and nastier in the engine room than it is up at the cockpit panel. Another possibility is that when you did the cockpit end something got misplaced or wired incorrectly. We don't know, and maybe even now you don't, so you might consider yourself back to square one because the ONLY thing you claimed you changed was the cockpit end of the wiring harness. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if it was my boat, I'd check them very carefully – again.
2. The overall wiring setup appears that it will work.
3. The alternator has four wires leaving it: #6 to the house bank, red, switch and tach. What switch? Where does the red go? If you haven't yet, please see the "back of the old alternator wiring" diagram I posted, here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4548.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4548.0.html) You need to be absolutely sure you have these correct at both end of the harness. Those diagrams are a bit different than yours would be since I was installing a new alternator with an internal regulator, and removing an old AutoMac which dealt with the field wire somewhat differently, but the concepts remain the same.
4. The alternator is grounded to the engine via the alternator bracket. You have an M25XP engine. That engine came with the "new improved" bracket already installed. Are you VERY sure that that ground is solid? You may want to consider checking the continuity of that ground and make sure there's nothing isolating the alternator from that bracket and the bracket from the engine – no fiber washers, the studs are tight on the bracket, the bracket's tight to the engine. You may also want to consider simply adding a ground wire from the alternator ground to the engine ground bolt.
5. You already know about the #6 wire, won't beat a dead horse. Your note #3 says: "Alt stays cool when all wires are disconnected." You may want to consider dealing with a wire at a time so you can play detective yourself and find out which wire is the culprit. That'll narrow down your search.
Did you see Jim Moe? Any input from him? I'd start on the harness.
Ken's also right about the combiner location and your unusual arrangement of your house bank, but why not wait for another day until you get this sorted out. It's only an operational / switch issue that can be addressed with a simple wiring change, but let's not complicate "this" situation with other changes until you get this one corrected.
Ron : WOW ! there have been numerous posts on this very topic and volumes written on it - just on this web site.
First you can add&do need a 3 stage external Voltage regulator to your present 51 amp Prestolite, but first you need to (have someone) disconnect the persent internal V-regulator and wire the new one into it's place.
I'll let Stu give you a dissertation on "how to and why you need to" get a better charging system - if you usually don't live off of shore power.
Quote from: Ron Volk on August 12, 2010, 03:15:59 PM
I have a couple of questions regarding my batteries & alternator. I have Prestolite 51 amp alt. ( Not sure what the internal regulator is set at). I have a 310 AH house system and a separate start battery. What would be the consequences if I added a smart 3 stage reg. to the alternator without upgrading to a larger output alternator. If I'm looking at say being 60-70 amps down on my batteries when I initially start the engine is there any difference in the operation of the alternator whether it has just an internal reg. compared to a external one. Also, Mainsail discussed the mod. of an older Alt. to upgrade it to raise the reg. set point to 14.4V, how much difference will that make? Thanks for any help.
Ron V,
Great question.
I'll save the dissertation, 'cuz Ron's right, as usual, it's all here.
What I can provide are a few links and directions, some or most of which you may have already employed. You can measure your existing alternator output voltage very easily at the house bank when depleted with the engine running, no shorepower. Let us know what it is, then we can better respond to setpoints or Maine Sail can let you know.
Perhaps the "Momma of All Write-ups" is this one by Maine Sail. I got there by doing a search on "Leece" and this one was the second one down.
That said, Maine Sail and I diverge slightly on using an existing OEM alternator with the newer three stage charging from external regulators. I think if an OEM alternator is ready for reconsideration, OR if all you want to do is improve your charging from the engine, then you know it's time for a full upgrade, not just part of it, and leaving the part of it that works the hardest and you're now demanding even more from it. The two parts are the alternator and the regulator. And I think that an old alternator may not take the demands of running full time on bigger house banks. Ya gotta change the AO anyway to deal with the bigger alternator to bank current. MS figures they can handle it I believe. Hence, the Leece discussions and his excellent Leece write-ups and this one in particular. I'll let him chime in here, too. I've been known to misquote him all too frequently, and this probably won't be the last! :D
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4879.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4879.0.html)
The first topic in the search results is a good one, too. This one summarizes this topic, too: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5686.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5686.0.html)
Read 'em all. If you have already, then my advice is up above.
If you are depending on your alternator for longer cruises, get a bigger alternator and it can be either internally or externally regulated. You'd get more bang for the bucks that way, and Maine Sail should agree, since his boat had an internally regulated alternator and the POs spent five years cruising keeping the house bank between 50 and 80%. If you have shorepower and are a marina hopper, either leave it all alone until you HAVE to replace the alternator, or if ya just wanna spend unnecessary $$ slap an external regulator on what you have, 'cuz it won't see much load on the old alternator anyway.
And this even yet another opportunity to suggest that "It All Depnds on How You Use Your Boat." ...and how it's wired. :shock:
Thanks for listening, and, as always:
Your boat, your choice
Stu,
Thanks for your reply, I have read the 'Catalina Electrical System Upgrade' by Jim Moe, the Ample Power Technical Docs., and a variety of the web site information, but had not seen much about using the std. Alt. with a smart Reg. Thanks for your 2 web site references and your thoughts, this has helped me.
Thanks Again,
Thanks stu and all, will go up to the boat today and do a little troubleshooting, will have company the weekend, and work next week, so won't be able to do the other end of the harness upgrade for about 10 days
Stu the switch you asked about is the ignition switch at the cockpit panel, the purple wire gets power when the switch is turned on, I have verifyed it works. not sure where the red wire comes from, but I do believe it is from the switch as well, I will run that down. the only other two wires are the tach and output wire.
I agree that I must reexamine the cockpit instrument cluster and make sure all is well there.
I will try starting the engine with one wire off at a time and see if I can narrow it down, trouble with that, alt heats up so fast (30-60 sec) and stays hot for a couple of hours, but I can deal with that, lots of other things to do on the boat while the alt is cooling back down.
I can see now why the PO told me to leave the battery selector switch in the all position,
I have cleaned all grounds and ran a seperate ground from the alt case to the block, didn't make a differnce though,
Thanks for the help and hopfully I can get back with good news, Bob
Quote from: Bobg on August 13, 2010, 08:30:14 AMnot sure where the red wire comes from, but I do believe it is from the switch as well, I will run that down. the only other two wires are the tach and output wire.
Bob, the red wire has to be for the power to the instrument cluster and has to come from the inside panel because it doesn't go on unless you turn the 1-2-B switch or perhaps your secondary reserve bank switch. Trace it out.
Good luck.
OK guys, after a 2 day boat working holiday, I have come to the conclusion that my 55 amp Mando Alternator just can't charge my new 6 volt T105 golf cart batteries with out burning up. Batteries have all been tested with a very expensive tester and also the specific gravity of individual cells have determined all batteries are good.
I did the wiring harness upgrade on both ends before starting my Alt testing, the plug at the engine was also burned up, now it has been replaced with a nice terminal strip.
OK, I first took all house boat loads off the system, (ie) I removed the #4 wire that goes to the dist panel and the ground, I disconnected the combiner, I then made up a #2 ga wire for the AO and used that on all tests.
If I connect only my reserve (start) battery to the alternator, I get 14.40 volts off the Alt, same reading at batt terminals, and a cool alternator.
If I do the same as above with a spare battery I brought with, I get the same results.
If I attempt to charge any two of a combination of 4 6 volt batterys, the alt puts out 13.65 volts, slowly climbs to around 14, but the alt heats up so fast I have to shut it down or it will lock on me.
All these tests were taken with all boat house systems disconnected. new #4 ground from the neg on the battery to the engine, a #4 wire from the + on the battery to the starter solenoid..and the #2 from the AO to the + on the battery. Pretty simple and forward.
The marina mechanic has seen this before where a alt just will not work on a bigger amp battery without getting impossibly hot, couple minutes you can light matches off it.
The mechanic suggested I only wire it to the reserve (start) battery located behind the engine, and charge the 4 6 volts with shore power and when (out there) recharge with my Honda generator.
Or as he was doing to another boat with the same problem, install another external adjustable regulator that is a extension of my internal regulator that will limit the AO up to 5 amps. Or as he suggested get a nice Balmor AO with external 3 stage reg.
Course it is still possible my new Alt just ain't a good one, I don't recall ever having a problem like this with my old 55 amp Motorola. Bottom line, it won't charge 2 6 volt golf cart battery's with clean connections and new cables. using the same scenario it will work perfectly on smaller 12 volt batteries. Thank you all and escpecially Stu, I am going on to other boat projects that are more fun, like bright work and cockpit shower installation Bob
If you did not have this problem with your original Motorola, it sure sounds like an alternator problem.
This "kinda" continues here, http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5842.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5842.0.html)
Distribution Panel making electricity topic.
bobg's got some "issues" with his electrical system.
Have you tested your batteries with a hydrometer? They're cheap.
A bad battery would not cause the spark you're getting but could possibly cause the alternator problem if they were "extremely" low on their charge or shot completely. I'm betting on either the new alternator being bad or the wiring issue that you're getting the spark from.
I can't remember if you said whether you connected the alternator to your starting battery to see if that causes it to overheat as well, but that would be worth a shot.
Another 3 cents,
Mike