Here is the situation, which has gotten us and the boat yard in a quandry. We continue to have water in the bilge...exactly 2 inches in 5 hours. We pump out and dry thoroughly, and 5 hours later there is another 2 inches...never less and never more than 2 inches...whether it rains or not. Nor can we see where it is entering the bilge. We have checked EVERY through-hull, tank, and have even pulled the boat out of the water and checked the keel and sump area. Nothing. Has anyone out there experienced this?
Two other sources come to mind:
1. Rudder tube: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html If the little flat area under the aft cabin and aft of the stuffing box stern tube is always wet, and your aft water tank isn't leaking, that's where I'd go first.
2. The 1 5/8" hoses to and from the aqualift muffler. If you've been motoring. Mine leak, I still have to finish getting the muffler ports rebuilt with MarineTex and smoothed out.
And the obvious ?: salt or fresh water?
I have exactly the same issue and can't wait for the answer! :D
Could it be a leak in the fresh water system? If so, with the freshwater pump breaker turned on, you should hear the pump run intermittently to keep the pressure up.
George Alberts
Breezing Up, #1471
Chesapeake Bay
I to have the exact same problem.Checked rudder tube no leak,muffler good,sea cocks good,hoses good.Bilge pump comes on every 30 minutes 2500rpm tied down in slip.Finally found crack in shaft log to the rear of 1 5/8, hose pulling boat Monday for repair.Hopes this helps
Al Landry
Catalina34
Hull#13
Lucky
After 3 years of similar problem, tracked it to ho water tank. Old and rusted, leaking from a lower seam. Water track to bilge was hard to find so that masked the problem.
I had a very similar problem when I bought my boat nearly two years ago. Like your boat, there was a constant 2 inches of water in the bildge, but it took over 12 hours to refill after drying it out. IAlthough I never heard the bildge pump cycle, I am sure it keept it at about that level. After extensive searching for a leak, we found that the hull under the aft berth was wet but we were unable to find where it came from, the hull was just wet starting at one spot, and dry behind that spot.
At the suggestion of our local boatyard manager, we hauled the boat and they found that water was coming up through the hull around the strut where they found voids in the filler around the strut. Once that was fixed, the boat went back in the water where the same problem occured again, but in a differant area under the aft berth. We hauled again and they found water was leaking into the skeg through a crack a the 90 degree angle where the skeg meets the hull in front of the rudder and then into the boat. Once they repaired the skeg, my leak problem was solved and my bidge has been dry, except for when it rains.
Good luck in finding your leak.
Gary
Steve : Besides Stu's question I have another. In which compartment of the bilge is the water found?
The aft compartment is usually from the packing gland or rudder post gland. The second from the aft is usually from fresh water - heater/hose connections or a following sea thru the electric bilge pump exit. The front and just behind the mast are usually from rain down the mast or a flow thur from the bilge pump area.
A few thoughts
You may have a number of small leaks. My first season with Shamrock was spent tracking down a lot of small leaks. I used a large felt-tip water color marker and made a line below a suspected leak if some of the line was washed off I looked above that area. Just test the marker and make sure that it wipes off with quickly with water. Now I have only intermittent water entry from way aft, I suspect the aft cockpit seat lids.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on July 01, 2010, 04:37:32 AMNow I have only intermittent water entry from way aft, I suspect the aft cockpit seat lids.
One of the earliest
Mainsheet "tips&tricks" I remember reading was to install weatherstripping under both the lazarette and port locker lids. Not only does it stop the water intrusion, but it removes any rattling sounds. I also put a small piece under the port locker hasp to stop it rattling when the lock is removed and the locker is open. We rarely open the lazarette, so I haven't done it there.
Steve
The guy in the slip behind me did this with his Swan. He had the boat lifted and dried everything, he even drained his tanks. He had the boat hanging in the slings and had the boat lowered back into the water little by little, then he would wait a couple of hours. First the keel bolts, then transducers, shaft log, you get the idea. It was in the slings for almost two days until he found the problem. Seems extreme but it worked. I can't image what the yard bill was.
Did I mention he has a Swan.
Cory
Ron,
I was under the impression that the rudder post gland was normally above the water line, or could it be leaking from a following sea?
Mike, that link to the rudder packing gland says:
That packing gland is above the water line when the boat is static and most of the time under sail. It's underwater while motoring and some points of sail.
Could be a source of water but not at a static dockside situation.
I'll assume you've exhausted all other sources of leaks such as the Hot water tank, seacocks, stuffingbox etc...
I have this problem too. As far as I know, no one ever tightened the keel bolts on mine. It was set improperly on wood in the cradle. There IS a big crack in the fairing compound at the front of my keel joint. We fixed that, we torqued the bolts, we bedded the keelbolt washers, I dried the bilge after every visit to the boat. I have found that I get about 1 inch of water in a week in the bilge. It IS coming in thru the bilge floor. During the winter I had a diesel leak that filled the bilge with 2 gallons of fuel, this fuel made it's way out and dribbled down the outside of the keel all winter. Not only that it worked it's way between the fiberglass and the lead keel anyplace these two things have delaminated. The very bottom of the keel has been banged up a bit from impact and has open spots that we did not try to close. After several thorough clean ups since winter. I still get fuel in the bilge water. NO I do not have a fuel leak. This oil is being pushed by water and pressure back up to the keel bolts and out through cracks in the bilge floor, which can be seen now that I'm looking for them.
It's not a lot of fuel just enough to see on the surface if you use a spot light in the bilge.
The solution for this one is a thorough dry out over winter. then to drop the keel and rebed the whole thing. Now that we've sailed it a few times we get a bit more water in the bilge over a weeks time. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Hope this helps shed some light on your issue.
Good l
Here in SW Florida it is hot and humid for 6 months of the year. Most boat owners that have their boats in canals behind their homes leave their air conditioners on and set at say 85 to 88 degrees. this lets the Ac keep the humidity down. and lets the interior cool off. My old ODay got so hot one summer it melted a pair of USDivers swim fins that were stowed under the seat. (that's hot) This also presents a bilge water problem as nearly everyone has the condensation line from the Ac led to the bilge. I have this and every day I collect enough water to trigger the bilge pump. Since the pump switch is set to go on when the flipper rises I always have bilge water. This standing water gets stale and needs to be hand pumped out every now and then as it looks and seems cruddy. It also seems like this water would just evaporate and add to the already humid interior. Last year at a boat show i saw a little system called the meremaid Ac condensor system. This system lets you attach the condensation flow line to the water discharge line and the stream of water that flows literally sucks the condensation water from the line and out this port. You can google it and see it. I saw one working and it was pretty slick. I am installing one this week. They sell for about $200 but you can find them on the net for about $150.00. I am wondering if anyone else has used one? It wil be nice not to have that slimey water in the bilge all summer.
Terry
When we bought the Interlude a 1986 MK 1 here is what we found adding water to bildge.
Ice box emptied into the bilge- Added refrigeration and reconnected foot pump.
Shaft packing gland - Added dripless system.
PO had drilled hole in shower pan- Filled hole and recaulked arount the pan as well.
Water muffler had cracked arount the collar- Fixed with marine Tex epoxy.
Inspection port on water tank leaked= put plumbers tape around threads.
Water was comining up just forward of the rudder post due to crack in the skeg. Pulled boat drilled into skeg and drained. repaiered crack and filled skeg so it could not happen again.
speakers on right and left stern seat leaked - caulked.
After three years have a dry bildge.
Stu suggests the best place to start: Is the water salt or fresh? One of the most comforting things I recall from Don Casey's great book on Sailboat Maintenance is that all boats leak. It took me a long time to realize that I could not stop every possible source. Unless it's getting progressively worse, a likely source is the pressurized water system. I've had trouble with hose clamps into and out of the hot water heater. As someone noted, you'll be able to tell if it's pressurized if the pump cycles on and off when the system is on.
Steve,
The fact that intrusion is always and only two inches, I think eliminates many possibilities that have been discussed. While I don't know the answer --rhetorically-- what situations exist on our boats that allow water in -and then to seek its own level- and then stop. I think I might try emptying all of the fresh water tanks in the boat including the water in the hot water heater and see what happens.---an interesting mystery--good luck,
Ken
Steve,
Are you sure that your bilge pump isn't maintaining the level at two inches?
The more sailing we do the more we stress the fiberglass and the keel bolts etc...
Now we are getting just enough water in the bilge to "almost'' turn on the pump.
Once again this water has a skim of diesel on top which I mop out, flood the bilge with water and some Dawn, sop up, discard, and the next day oily water. Ok, so we'll drop the keel this coming fall or the next. The quest for the dry bilge may not be attainable.
Does anyone know if there is wood in the keel stub between the floor and the lead keel?
Am I compressing rotten wood when I tightened my keel bolts to spec in April? Which I did retighten a couple times before splashing in Late May. Again I do not have a fuel leak, water leak or condensation problem in this area. The stuffing box has to leak about a quart of water before it will migrate to the bilge, and that has not happened yet.
I also was having an oil slick on top of some bilge water. I was more worried about the fuel than the water at the time since my ac was running and I assumed it was from there. (it was) . I pumped it dry and then emptied out all the area, cushions etc from the aft cabin and put down pampers on the hull I put them under the fyel tank area, then under the sink where I have the fuel lines, then under the floorboards where I might tell where the fuel was coming from and under the engine. . I found the diesel soaked pampers under the tank area. . the hose from the tank was loose and it was leaking when full. Then I found a hose clamp that was not tight on the fuel line under the sink. I did a major replacement of hose and clamps. No more oil slick.
Many thanks for your suggestions. Here is an update on our situation:
- No leaks THROUGH the hull. We were also concerned about our keel and had some "weeping" when sitting on the hard (we went over in Wilma) so had the keel dropped, re-installed with new sealant, big ss backing plates, and the needed fiber glassing. Also had a bottom job while at it. The hull/keel/rudder look great and are now not even a small worry.
- Checked all through hulls and again, no leaks.
- Found a cracked fitting in the anchor locker drain and replaced. Rain was coming in.
- Found a slow but steady leak from the 20 year old hot-water heater and replaced the unit.
- Checked the rest of the water system and found no leaks.
- Checked rudder gland (even though) it is above water-line and found no leaks.
- Found a small leak around the rudder cap in the cockpit when raining and subsequent dripping from the TOP of the steering quadrant. Repaired.
- Measured rain water from mast (we have lots of rain) and discovered it could easily add an inch in 12 hours. No solution.
- Found a slow but steady leak from the head system (line from tank to macenator and other small drips) and will attempt to replace the 20 year old tank tank and 5 year old hoses this coming week. Starting to have an odor problem in any event.
- Replaced primary bilge pump (Rule 2000) after finding older unit over heating. This may explain the consistent 2 inches left in the bilge.
- Found a small trail of rust on the inside of the hull from the exhaust fitting. Will check further next week.
In the meantime, we have upgraded/changed our house battery blank (now 4 x 6V), our deck hardware, our ground tackle, mast to deck seal, new deck hardware, hump hose, engine water strainer, and a host of smaller items. We may even have to a chance to sail her before putting her back on the hard! Despite the time, cost, and frustrations at times, we are actually enjoying learning even more about our C34. In the process of hunting down our "leak" we have learned a lot.....even after 6 years of ownership.
A final comment on CY and Ken Roy....Ken has been a great help. Hopefully he will find us a new holding tank (CY's parts system seems to be a bit under organized), but even if CY does not have one, Ken's efforts are much appreciated.
Steve : Sounds as thought you have things well in hand.
You still haven't answered Stu's question of "SALT or FRESH water"?? (I wouldn't recommend tasting the water until you get the head leaks fixed - yuk !)
You also haven't answered my of "which bilge compartment does the water first show up in" ?? Anytime I find water in the bilge, the compartment tells me 99% of the time correct, what is leaking!!
The leak (small drips) in the head system are the cause of your SMELLs. I doubt that you need a new waste tank - unless the nipple/threaded portions of the tank itself are buggered up.
A few thoughts.
Ron and Stu, excuse the lapse. When the boat was first put back into the water, after the keel and bottom jobs, the water was definitely fresh. Tasted it and think it was "primarily" from the heavy rains we were having. This fresh/clear water was primarily in the forward 3 sections of the bilge. The aft most section had minimal water and it was "generally" clear to a very slight brown. We did NOT taste this water. As we moved aboard and started living on the boat, the situation in the bilge changed....some mornings we would have 2 inches of prefectly clear/fresh water in the forward 3 sections of the bilge, and no change in the last section. Then the next day, after pumping out the bilge, we would have 2 inches of very brown water in all 4 sections of the bilge. We would pump this out and the next day we would be back to clear water...or more brown water...never a pattern. Yesterday, we thoroughly flushed out all sections of the bilge and left the boat with minimum water in the bilge (to the extent of the pump's ability to get it all). We also closed all through hulls, and had no overnight rain. This morning, we had 1.5 inches of "brownish" water in the bilge, in all sections. A very important point...when the yard did the keel job, they added some epoxy and sealant in the bilge. In the process, they covered over the drain hole between the last and the 3rd sections of the bilge. There are drain holes between the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd sections. We have come to the conclusion that we are/were facing a number of fresh and brown water leaks, from the rain, deck washing, corroded hot water tank, cracked fittings, and of course the small (but smelly) drip from the head system. We know that the head leak is flowing into the last section of the bilge, and the fresh water leaks seems to flow first into the 1st and 2nd sections. Your thoughts??
Many thanks to Stu and whomever managed to get the Head Mistress on the site and answering our very own questions. An honor.
An update...dry bilge! Vacuumed out the bilge after literally going through the boat from bow to stern, fixing small drips and can finally say we are dry (for now). At the end of the experience, we identified 7 small "drips" from the anchore locker drain to a fitting on the rear water tank and the exhaust outlet, that cummatively kept the bilge wet. Also took some measurements on the volume of the bilge hose and the amount of water left by our Rule 2000. Replaced the bilge pump. An interesting and worthwhile experience, if frustrating at times.
Sorry guys, I know this is an old post, but..................
I have been having the same problem on Ciao Bell, hull 367 and after reading Stu Jackson's reply number 11 I am going to check my rudder post this week end while we motor out. I know if we run the engine above 2000RPM the back squats down so much that the water comes up to the middle of the bilge discharge in the back. So the rudder post has to be below the water line too. I have been going nuts looking for how and where that water comes from.
Thanks Stu
Ralph Masters
Ralph : If you are getting salt water in the aft bilge section it can be coming from the rudder packing gland or the shaft log gland or both?? If you have drippless packing in the shaft log so no water is coming out of the shaft, then it's the rudder gland leaking!!
Our web site had a diagram of the rudder packing gland that I posted. To tighten it you need to tighten down the 3 hex head bolts equally - a bit at a time and not much.
Rudder packing gland link: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html (http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html)
If I was getting 2" of water per 5 hrs....I'd get a couple beers and camp out for a while at the bilge.
gwp ; Just remember that when the boat is stationary the rudder packing gland is above the water line. A thought
Not the rudder post while motoring, my quest continues. Oh well, it was worth a look.