I am considering purchasing an '89 C34. The upfront costs don't have me too concerned, but I need to get a good understanding of the long term costs when owning this type of boat.
This will be an inland boat for the foreseeable future, but I wouldn't rule out taking her to the Gulf of Mexico someday. I hope this keeps insurance costs down, but if they are too much more than expected I may have to pass.
So far I assume there will be an undetermined amount for maintenance, but I have always worked on my cars and used to do fiberglass repairs on smaller boats (sunfish, 470, J24).
I also have to account for the wet slip.
What else am I missing? Can I own one of these boats for less than $2k year + storage + insurance + capital cost?
Once I get over this part, what should I look at in this boat? I assume the equipment from boat to boat can drastically change the value, but where should they start on an inland boat (first 8 years were salt water)? How much will a new mainsail likely set me back?
Thank you for any help
Here are a couple of links that will answer some of your questions.
http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-c34-owners-review.html (http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-c34-owners-review.html)
http://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Miscellaneous/evolution (http://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Miscellaneous/evolution)
Hi - I'm sure you'll get so many different answers that your head will spin, but I can give you my account. I have an 88, so its comparable in age. But one of the best things about these boats is that they don't really need alot of fancy maintenance, unless you have some exotic systems. I'm just going to touch on big stuff. There are lots of little things but too many to mention. i.e. new and spare impellers, replacement belts, etc.
I'm in the Chesapeake, a fairly expensive area. Slip fees run in the 2-4 G's a year range. I pull my boat every year (you're in TX, so that may not be needed) to let the hull dry out. Fiberglass is absorbent you know. So that add's another $150/month for winter.
Normally I paint the bottom with ablative paint every other year. About $200-$250 once you add everything up. Wax the hull, stuff like that.
Change the oil and oil filters every year - $35 or so.
Winterize the water systems and engine - $40 or so (you may not need to do this)
Change the fuel filters every two years or so. - $20-$30
Canvass needs constant attention - I spend about $300-$500 a year fixing or repairing the dodgert, bimini, etc.
New sails can run the gamut - Cheap for new main is about $1500, same for the gennie, but expect to pay much more as the quality improves.
Teak upkeep - not much money but alot of elbow grease.
Can't think of much else.
Thank your for the details. I figured slip fees will vary wildly by region, and even by class of marina. I also assume Insurance is a regional thing.
I meant to imply that I'm looking for the costs of everything but the slip and insurance, as those are easy to research and comprehend.
It sounds like the misc. costs will be well under the $2 grand mark, so that's a good thing.
Is repainting the bottom really only $200-250? When I was in collage we tortured ourselves doing the bottom of a J24. Granted it was blistered, so we sanded it way down, re-coated in epoxy, and repainted.
That's why your question is so difficult to answer. Everyone's different. I lightly sand it myself and put on multi-year ablative paint. If you pay for it, our marina charges between $16 and $23 per foot, depending on the package.
Chedlin,
First of all, welcome to the group and in my opinion the C34 is the most bang for the buck you can get. We have had our '89 for three years now and couldn't be happier. We have also sailed friends boats and chartered Hunter's, Beneteau''s Jenneau's in our previous sailing club and always fall back on the Catalina's. We have also owned a C22 and loved it too. Everything just seems to be in the right place on Catalina boats.
I would say that you "COULD" spend under $2,000 a year but weather you will depends on a lot of variables such as the condition of the boat and your own personal preferences along with the insurance and slip fees for your area.
You definitely need to involve a surveyor to check out the boat, engine, rigging, sails and other systems on the boat.
It also helps if you have more than one to look at so you can compare how other owners have made various improvements.
And lastly, I can't say enough good things about the people on this board. There is a lot of knowledge floating(sailing) around and it's all available to you.
Good Luck,
Mike
Welcome and good luck.
General costs were covered well in earlier replies.
What we DON'T know is what condition the boat you are looking at is in, which would affect not only the purchase price, but the repair & ongoing costs. Also, what "toys" you like will impact your pocketbook.
You may be interested in pursuing some of the suggestions in this Quick Start Guide if you haven't already. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5260.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5260.0.html)
Do a Search on the word weblog and read what Steve Lyle did with hull #75, and what he found that the surveyor didn't.
If your PO upgraded or "solidified" your electrical system and put on a quality battery charger, you'll be in better shape for the first year expenses.
How much will a new mainsail likely set me back?
Used, new, high tech, the varieties are endless. Do a search on mainsail or new main or new sail - runs the gamut from $1,500 to more than three times for new.
I just met a gentleman today who purchased a used M25 engine off eBay. I also know folks who shop at Nordstroms. Have NO idea other than your stated abilities in terms of "dumpster diving" :D :D :D or general purchasing abilities. :D
There's the old sawhorse: If you have to ask how much...
I think you can keep a Catalina 34 going for 2K a year. It really is a hell of a lot more fun if you spend about 20k per year...
$20k per year would be out of the question, even including slip fees. My actual budget will be much higher than $2k, because I believe the slip fees and insurance will be over $5k. I'm just trying to figure out the incidentals. My maximum budget will be $15k, but that would wipe out the other hobbies (taking the M3 to the track every now and then).
I am great at DIY, with a focus on the mechanical and electrical. I would have no problems replacing every line or tearing down a motor, but I have no appetite for painting and would have to pay a professional.
You're in luck. Painting isn't on the boat to do list! Except for the bottom and mine's too big to do myself.
But this is a perfect example of trying to answer your question. Let's say it costs $1,500 to do a bottom job. You only need to do it once every two or three years. $750 or $500 per year. One puts a bigger dent into your $2K per year than the other.
I spend about 13k to 16k per year on the boat...that is everything...loan, insurance, slip, annual maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc. I try to do as many repairs myself as I can...yard rates are pretty high. Without loan and slip, I spend about 1,300 - 4,300 per year. Yes, I've been running a spreadsheet on the costs...one of my sailing friends asked why I did that. I do it because I have an accounting background. He suggested I might just want to sail and forget about the cost...I think he is right...it is all about the life of being on the boat. But, I still track the costs...I just have a couple of drinks and say, "don't care, sailing is fun, and I need fun". Go for the gusto.
Toys make the big difference. We keep adding them: bimini & dodger, dinghy & motor, getting salon seats reupholstered this winter. Serious and expensive maintenance issues really haven't happened and what I've had I have been able to do myself with information from this site. We are having our biggest single expense this winter: bottom blasted, blisters repaired and barrier coat. I could have done all but the sandblasting, but after looking at the time, PIA (pain in a**)factor concluded it would be money well spent. What the heck, its only money and the way the guvment is going we won't have much left anyway.
Mark Mueller
Mark,
what is the aprox. cost of bottom blasting and the barrier coat application in your area? My PO's yard foolishly put VC 17 over an ablative bottom paint resulting in paint blisters that need to be lightly sanded every year. somewhere along the line I'm going to take the hull down to the gel coat-apply a new barrier coat and then go to an ablative bottom paint that can be "touched up" every few years instead of the yearly application of vc17 although I must say that VC 17 is really a slick bottom paint and does go on easily.
thanks, Ken
Ched : You've asked a tough question and I don't believe that any of us can really give you a definitive answer.
Your fixed yearly costs are going to be your water slip/land storage and that's going to depend on where the boat is. Most slips costs can be from $2000/year and up ++. Land storage can be from $3 to $4+ /ft.(without lift costs). Insurance is also going to be locally calculated !? Don't forget TAXES where you are or where the boat is!!
Then the most vexing problem is the condition of the boat and what you "have to do/want you'd like to do" to your boat ?!?
A few thoughts.
Ken, I would imagine the price of doing the barrier coat would depend on your area and what they have to do to the boat. In our case it is about 5 grand. Ours will cost more because we have moderate blistering that will have to be repaired. I could do the work myself except for the sandblasting, just can't afford to take the time off to do it. The other thing is that I talked to several who have had this done. Some did it themselves others had it done. Those who did it themselves, to a man, said they would never do it again themselves. Too much work and not as good as the yard could do. Guess I will find out.
As to reapplying the vc17 each year. I only do the entire hull every other year. I just touch up along the waterliine and along the leading edges of the rudder and keel. It works just great and vc17 is really the best in my opinion for a fresh water environment.
I did a rough wag on my ownership costs and it came out to a bit north of 60 grand for 12 years of ownership. For comparison I paid 55 grand for the boat in 1995. I sold it in '07 for 54 grand. YMMV...
I missed a few of these reply's. I bought the boat. My wife posted a hello a couple of days ago. The boat is paid for and in Texas they just get us with a 6.5% sales tax on these, I won't be hit year after year. Fixed costs including the bottom paint fund look to be a little over $5k a year (slip is over $4k), although I already had to do batteries and a steaming light (well, I could have just replaced the bulbs, but it is long over due).
Thanks to everyone!
Interesting topic. When we purchased our 1990 C34, the agent commented that we should allow 10% of the purchase price per annum, for upkeep, insurance, etc. With minimal adjustments for inflation, it has been in the 10% "ball park" for 5 years. Some years less and some years more depending on the purchases, work done, etc., but overall, 10% per annum. Just a thought.
It doesn't look too late to put my 2 cents in!
We bought a '90 last August and it needs things the PO's should have been doing the previous 15 years. I'm attaching my to do list hope it makes you feel better not worse! I'm doing all my own work.
Here in Lake Ontario's west end, the slip, hauling, and outside storage are 3,000.00. We have a very nice campsite-like,12'x24' grass and paver area for picnic table, lawn chairs, storage bin, gas grill, etc. right in front of the slip with ample parking for guests. Insurance is 350.00/yr and sales tax to register is 4000.00 one time. We bought a cover 2800.00.
By the way the only bad thing about the forum is every time I read it I end up adding things to my to do list!!
Best of luck to you!
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Boat to do list: estimated cost around 7500.00
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Replace frozen hot water tank, sails and standing rigging are original, coated topping lift cable replacement,
Bottom Paint this year?, motor mounts, shaft align, stuffing box, torque and re-bed keel bolts, Refair keel stub hull joint, internal heat exchanger zinc replacement, raw water impeller replacement, Engine fuel filter replaced, (is original!!), Racor fuel filters checked/replaced, purchase serviceable checkvalves for shower drain and galley drain', Head pump problem clean/lube or rebuild?, New House batteries/start battery,
shore power battery charger installation, replace bad elec. panel breakers, Lifelines need replacement, LPG tank locker refit, Hose replacement involving the "black water tank" and the tank vent problem, Add interior LED lighting upgrades, replace head sail continuous furling line.
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Elbow grease account
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Stantion re-bedding
cabin top eyebrow re-bedding or elimination?
seized macerator... ?
chainplate re-bedding
winches need opened and lubricated/re-bedded
Clean main mast sail root grooves
Fuel pickup tube screen check
hot water heater secured to hull better, same for pump/valve deck in the galley
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Wish List (not estimated $)
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Storage upgrades,
Wind speed indicator,
GPS,
Folding prop,
drip-less stuffing box,
V berth mattress,
cabin heater,
Lazy Jacks,
Folding wheel,
screened companion way doors,
Stern rail seats,
another anchor,
needed preps for Atlantic cruising
Congratulations on a very wise purchase. We own a 1989 C34 (hull #873). We regularly charter in the Carribean and always come away from those experiences very happy to return to our Catalina (although we always have a couple of ideas for improvements. . .).
As others have mentioned, your biggest variable cost is going to be what you choose to improve. Our broker sold the boat to us as ready to sail with little need for immediate remedial work. That certainly was true and I am convinced that our boats well stand the test of time. But the list of things I have chosen to improve is very long. I can go from stern to bow and identify improvements every step of the way. It is a labor of love to me and something I feel I owe to our boat. Fortunately, I have a wife who feels the same way.
The one thing you absolutely should do right away is check to see if the prior owner has replaced the terrifying black plug engine harness that Catalina unwisely installed on this boat. If so, immediately get the replacement from Seaward and take care of that problem waiting to happen. There are probably more posts on this site about that issue than any other technical question.
Best of luck and happy sailing!
You can find that wiring harness issue and other horrifying things you can spend nights awake worrying about here: Critical Upgrades
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html)