I have recently put my beloved 1996 C320 in brokerage, and am now searching for a later model (03-07) C34 to replace it. This was brought on less by two-foot-itis" than by the admirable features I can find in the C34 with respect to sailing performance, accomodations, and comfort. I particularly like the lower freeboard, large v-berth, ergonomics, and the possibility of in-mast furling (yes, I know the tradeoffs, but am unfortunately getting a bit less mobile). Besides, it has beautiful lines, and can be handled easily by a cruising couple.
We moved from San Francisco to Victoria, BC, and we love cruising the San Juan and Gulf Islands; the C34 seems perfect for us both above and below deck. In this area, fin keel, big sail area, good electronics (plotter/radar), heater, and solid ground tackle are important features which are desirable/required. I suspect I'll be upgrading any boat I find.
Anyway, I would be very appreciative of any advice or perspective you could give as I search for the perfect boat. Especially any problem areas or items to particularly look out for as I assess boats. (Eg, is there a Tall Rig version of the later MkII's??) I am looking up and down the West Coast, with most of the few C34's for sale seemingly in Southern California unfortunately.
Thanks in advance for your help. I am very impressed with the C34 Forum and look forward to being here legally someday....
Julian Elliott
I know others will contribute specifically to your request and by searching the knowledge contained in the C34 Association Site you will learn so much. Knowing you are a previous Catalina sailor, my advice is to act quickly once you find the C34 of your choice. Do not let a fair price compared to a real deal stop your purchase. Waiting to long to close a decision can cause you to lose a purchase opportunity. Everyone at this time in our recession is looking for a deal . . . but you are looking for a Catalina 34. Its worth as a fine crafted ship and its contribution to your pleasure and leisure are discretionary factors of the price in total.
What you pay for the C34 you find and what you spend to tend her to your likes will never be regretted if you enjoy a C34 as much as Carol and I. Best of Luck.
Julian
You wrote: Especially any problem areas or items to particularly look out for as I assess boats
The best summaries of C34 specific issues, rather than "generic" boat issues, can be found on the old FAQ page: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq.html (http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq.html)
What folks have done for their boats is summarized on the Projects page: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects.html (http:// http://www.c34.org/projects/projects.html)
Many of these issues are more related to the older boats.
The "usual suspects" apply to all: chainplates, proper belt tensioning, stanchion rebedding, etc. Nothing you haven't seen before.
Actually, we've been trying to get the Mark II skippers to chime in with their "laundry list of problems" but they been hesitant; I'll let them say whether or not it's because they don't have any. :shock:
Any boat you get for "up there" will require a heater and there are a few ideas on the referenced pages, many more of which you can find by using the Message Board search engine. One neat trick I recently learned about routing a hot air duct from the port locker to the saloon through the head: go under the medicine cabinet, nobody'll ever notice! There are a few heater installs in our documentation.
Also, to get familiar with getting around our website, try this, The Guide...: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2629.0.html (http:// http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2629.0.html)It includes A QUICK START GUIDE FOR GETTING THE MOST OUT OF THIS WEBSITE AND YOUR BOAT: Learning Fast 101
Stu,
I must admit I got a lot of info on heaters off this site earlier this year when I installed a Webasto furnace on my 320!
Julian
Joe...that was so nicely put, I don't think I could have done it with more passion if I had a month to compose it. Good advice...
Julian, we by no means "got a deal" on the purchase price, but we believe we paid a fair price. As Joe said, we were looking for a C34...and the general family concensus is we would only upgrade to a 2010 C34...maybe 8)
Hope you find the right one for you!
Stu said: Actually, we've been trying to get the Mark II skippers to chime in with their "laundry list of problems" but they been hesitant; I'll let them say whether or not it's because they don't have any. Shocked
Well, I've had True Luff #1582 since 2002 and I really haven't had any problems. I regard her as the best boat I've owned.- (I've raced and cruised a Cal20, Ericson 29 and a Cat30). I love the boat, its size, its ability to take the seas like a lady, and the accommodations for a couple who are both in the tall category (I'm 6'6"). I also believe that everyone would benefit from a folding prop ... I changed from a fixed 3 blade to a 3 blade folding Flex-0-fold and love it. .... more speed and less kelp.
Julian,
I purchased my 2001 two seasons ago. Shamrock has a wing keel, roller furling main, and 160 Genoa. I sail Lake Erie.
Before I say any thing else....with out hesitation....I am very happy with the boat...has exceeded my expatiation's.
Now for the things that I don't like.
The waste holding tank. 17 gal. in the brosure but I suspect that its smaller or that the useable capacity is less.
When cruising ,with 2, I need to pump out every 3 or 4 days.
The sealant or caulking didn't last. I redid my seahood last year and plan to re-bed and redo everything. The boat has always been in Erie and is covered for 4 or 5 months during the year. My last boat, a 1979 S2, still had original sealant bedding that was still good.
Sailing....the boat sails well...but...I think that it's set up with too much head sail(160) and not enough main(furling) weather helm happens early, and the only way I'm able to get the main leach steady is with the leach line.(I made a 1" dowel with a hook on the end to reach up and tighten the leach line) I'm not doing any changes yet hoping that a sailmaker will come up with a way to put roach and battens into the main. The big Genoa does work great on light air days but needs (or should be) reefed early.
Other things are what you see is what you have. The refrigerator has to be very organized or you do a lot of digging. Not much galley storage unless you take it from someplace else.
Everything is a choice between this or that. For the way we use our Catalina 34mkll it's great. The problems can be fixed or lived with.
Jim
One thing Catalina does well is listen to owners. Many owner suggestions and the things that have required fixing on the MK1 and Mk 1.5 were upgraded or fixed in the MKIIs. Also MKIIs are relatively newer, so fewer things have had a chance to break and advances in technology have all ready been incorporated. The models are also similiar enough that MKI projects can be incorporated without too many changes, so new write ups may not be done. These could be some of the reasons that we don't see alot of MKII problems/projects.
Boat shopping is fun, but it can be frustrating. It took me about 2 years to find the right one. Looked at a lot that really didn't have the things I wanted or I thought were overpriced. Made what I thought were resonable offers, to be turned down. Finally found the right one, it too was above market. Again made a reasonable offer, to be turned down. It was the right boat and the PO did budge a couple thousand so I accepted the counter. Dockmates looked for over a year for a C34. They finally settled on a C36 because they could not find a C34 with a walk thru transom (their only real requirement) within their budget. Moral of the story, the C34 is a sought after boat that holds it's value. In most cases you get what you pay for.
Thanks for the insightful comments. This is very helpful. Jim, your comments on limitations highlight some we've noted (don't get my wife started on the galley and reefer layout vs the 320!). The tradeoffs with a furling main are important to me; I wrestle with that, but ease of sailing is becoming increasingly a priority unfortunately. Your leech line solution sounds interesting. I also understand that some mains come with vertical battens. Also, I also see a folding prop to offset the reduced sail efficiency since we're in a light-wind area.
It is interesting to hear comments on pricing/value which is consistent with what I've found. We have friends who are encouraging us to consider a 350 as an alternative -- more boat for similar dollars. I'm not familiar with the 350. Opinions?
Julian
Julian,
I do have a feathering prop, maxi-prop, best sail change I've ever made. The 350s are nice, good looking, but if you see one next to a 34 or 36 the difference in height is appearant. I like the lower 34&36s, but I'm not 6 foot.
Jim
This is a forum about C34s, not boat reviews of other models, although we've been known to comment on questions about C36s (nice boats) and others we may have seen at boat shows. We're not really "experts" on boats that aren't C34s.
Julian,
I think that you will find that most of the issues were addressed in the first iterations of the C34. I have a 2004, and have had very few problems that I did not cause myself. That said, I did have an issue with some cracks at the sugar scoop. It was not reinforced enough. Catalina fixed that problem for me and it has not come back.
The weather helm is a factor of the masthead rig and the size of genoas many use. Having sailed a few other boats that were fractional rigs it does take some getting used to. You asked about the tall rig in later boats. My boat is a tall rig, but I do not have in mast furling. I sail with a 130 and really don't have the weather helm problems of the larger genoas.
Tommyt, thanks for the comments on sailability. Re gelcoat crazing in the transom, I had heard of that.
Stu, sorry for asking an inappropriate q re comparisons. Laziness on my part, and I'm investigating elsewhere (although I think I know my conclusion).
I don't want to overstay my welcome. Thanks to all for your comments.
Julian Elliott
Quote from: jelliott on October 02, 2009, 12:58:00 PMI don't want to overstay my welcome. Thanks to all for your comments.
Julian, as a registrant here on the Forum / Message Board you are ALWAYS welcome, and we look forward to you as a member of the Catalina 34 International Association once you find "your" boat. Good hunting!
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on October 02, 2009, 08:27:05 AM
Sailing....the boat sails well...but...I think that it's set up with too much head sail(160) and not enough main(furling) weather helm happens early, and the only way I'm able to get the main leach steady is with the leach line.(I made a 1" dowel with a hook on the end to reach up and tighten the leach line) I'm not doing any changes yet hoping that a sailmaker will come up with a way to put roach and battens into the main. The big Genoa does work great on light air days but needs (or should be) reefed early.
Jim
Jim,
If you're getting weather helm you need to reef the main first. That reduces the sail area aft of the center of lateral resistance (moves the center of effort forward) and reduces weather helm. Just a thought...
Jim, on SF Bay most people use a 110 headsail (as do I on my 2006); very little problem with excessive weather helm (I do reef my main heavily and try to leave my headsail out until its really, really blowing).
Julian, I'm a tall guy and wish there was more head room. And for us, the head compartment is almost useless, other than the head itself. We use the galley sink for washing hands, brushing teeth, etc. and hardly ever take a show on board. Boat sails great, tracks like a train, balances well, and is pretty quick (I have a folding prop). Rates highly in the 'good looks' department, too. When I bought mine, I took a leap of faith and went for it, and the only surprises were of a good kind . . . 'does better than I expected' was a frequent comment regarding lots of different factors. Hardware, etc is pretty much all name brands. Sure, some things have broken (latches), but I have friends with other brands of boats who all say the same thing--small items break.
In regard to different models. It is really a personal choice, if you have a significant other....their input is very important. We were having a hard time deciding between the 34/36. We were visiting a friend who was working a boat show in Fla. It was late on Sunday, crowds were down. We told the broker we weren't buying, just shopping. He understood, having better things to do, let us look at the boats on our own. After about an hour on each, we were sitting in the salon of the 34 discussing pros and cons, the Admiral declared the 34 was the boat for us.
Personal opinion here....the 350 is a great boat, but I don't like leather interiors and prefer the head be aft near the companionway. Take some time, figure out what is important to you, look at the different models and then to decide what is right for you.
Julian,
My wife and I purchased our 2005 brand new and have no regrets what so ever. I can honistly say I have gone to the Newport Boat Show every year since to see what else there is or what I am missing and not once have I wished I had another boat. Sure the fridge can be a pain or difficult to reach things way in the at the bottom since we are both 5'5". Sure the rear "stateroom" is confined but the HUGE vee berth more than compensates. Yes, the holding tank needs to be pumped every 4 days but not a big deal. We have a roller furling main and feel that performance is sacraficed in both speed and ability to sail close to the wind but some of that may be my sailing ability or lack thereof. The 34 is one heck of a boat!
Julian,
We purchased a new MK 11 in July of 2006, equipped similar to what you are looking for. We purchased new because we could not find a late model boat in the Pacific Northwest. Shipping a late model MK11 from California and adding options that were included in the new boat was more money, it was an easy decision for us.
The battery charger went out after 30 days and was replaced under warranty. We also had some hoses to tighten up and one to replace. The windlass started leaking last year and also was fixed under warranty. No other issues or problems with the boat. We also added an ESPAR diesel hot water heater to the boat, it heats the boat in 20 degree weather.
Our friends bought a used 2004 C350 in new condition shortly after we bought the C34. They had alot of trouble handling the boat, too large and freeboard was an issue, they sold it and bought a C310 which they both love. Get on different boats to see if they are right for you, you will know when you have found the right one.
Good luck finding the right C34, and as others have said don't hesitate, you will love the boat.
PS.... It is veryyyyyy easy for a couple to handle, and yes we love the low freeboard.
Take your time and do your research...As Stu said, this site is your best resource.
Beyond the basic design, boats are really a sum total of parts and systems. Boats are complex machines and require regular maintenance, regardless of purchase price. A well-maintained older boat can often be a better deal than a newer vessel. A proper refit can often cost more than a boat is worth, so some of the best values on the used markets are older boats that have been throughly refit but are being sold for one reason or another at market prices. Markets tend to move slowly this time of year, and with the current economy, you can afford to be a choosy looking for your new boat!
The basic Catalina 34, regardless of year of manufacture, is well-built for coastal cruising. If you absolutely must have a feature (walk through transom, deck stepped mast, or wing keel for example), then that will limit the search somewhat. Just about all of the features of a later hull can be re-fit to an earlier hull.
It's a buyer's market, and you shouldn't limit your search to the local area--the cost of shipping can be well worth it for the right boat.
Best of Luck!
Mike
...One other thing to consider is that there's a fairly significant overlap between the C34 and C36 in many regards. It might be worth broadening your search to include both types.
About monthly I take a look at the C34 listings on yachtworld.com They currently have 99 boats listed, which is about average. What really made me happy was after a long dry summer with few sales they currently have 11 boats listed as sales pending. :clap As has been mentioned a few times in this thread. When you find the right boat don't delay...the good ones don't stay on the list long.
I've been researching and soul searching intensively over the past week, and have concluded with your help that (1) a later model C34 is absolutely the boat for me, and (2) I'm still wrestling with the decision on in-mast furling vs. battened main.
I have spoken with brokers up and down the west coast, and am pretty aware of what's currently on the market, and a couple that are coming. Some nice boats (if somewhat expensive after transport and adding heat). The big issue I'm now confronting is the tradeoff in the different mainsail systems. As an third alternative, I'm investigating whether a batten main with a "stackpack" cover and Harken Battcars would alleviate the effort/mobility issues. Opinions?
Also, UK and others offer a vertical batten main that they claim is a big improvement for in mast systems. Is this just marketing hype?
Wayne, your comment re the folding prop is good. A friend with a C34 told me that it would be a huge improvement in the lighter air up here.
I began this quest because of a desire to accommodate reduced mobility. I'm now finding it hard to make compromises.
My wife tells me I'm getting too anal with this...
I had an opportunity to sail on a boat with vertical battens last weekend. Still no roach, but at least the leech didn't constantly flutter, so I think it is a really good improvement over standard in-mast furling. I was ho-hum about in mast furling, but now that I'm used to it I like it. And I bought it because with 80% or so of new boats sold with it I felt that if I ever wanted to sell I would be limited without it (and I really think I'm right on this point). Don't know about light air sailing, though.
In terms of mobility issues, I think the 34 is really a great boat for keeping the strains on the body light and manageable.
In 2000, before the in-mast furling rave, my boat came standard with full batten main and the Dutchman flaking system. I like the Dutchman system a lot. I have stock slides, and with the stock set up, it works fine. I believe if I had Harken battcars, it would enhance the system. I've thought about upgrading to the Harken battcars, but the way things work now is really fine and I can't justify the added expense.
Aquavite's PO installed the Harken batt cars. I think they are great, except recognize that you will need a mast step or a step ladder to reach the headboard with the main halyard. Properly lubricated (Sailkote) the main drops like a good set of blinds! There is extra weight to raise when pulling the main halyard, but we do it both from the mast or from the cockpit. For singlehanding, Craig Illman shared a "cam cleat on the mast clutch" trick he installed, very nifty. Here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4946.0.html
Are the batt cars a "necessity?" Hardly.
Am I glad my boat came with them? You betcha! :D
Julian,
I installed a Dutchman system on my previous boat (30foot S2). It worked very well. Shamrock came with roller furling main. It works very well. Its easy to furl and no sail cover to put on and off, at the expense of a little speed sometimes.
If it were me, other features would come first. Boat condition, price, location (fresh or saltwater) and others come to mind.
Good Luck and enjoy the quest.
Jim
I was thinking deeply about the main just yesterday. I have a "stackpack" with conventional battens, decent roach, brand new slides, a recently painted mast track, 2 reef points with separate tack and clew lines. I love the set up and wouldn't change a thing. The sail performance is excellent, particularly in light air. I can pull the main easily by hand to within a foot of the top (this is a function of slick new slot). You couldn't pay me to add batt cars, single line reefing, or in-mast furling. Not that I have an opinion.
The downside of my set up is that it requires a trip on deck to bunch the sail in and zip up the cover. If this is difficult for you, then hands down you want a boat with in mast furling and don't even think about the performance trade off. If going on deck isn't a problem then you can achieve simplicity and performance, but you will need to work with a sail maker (or be handy with a machine) to get to this set up. I've seen a lot of C34s coming down the coast and I don't think you will find many (if any) on the market equipped this way.
Our boat came with in-mast main no battens.
We purchased in-mast as most of the newer boats were coming with it. Our dealer also told us the requests for in mast mains were 10 to 1 for it. We felt the boat would be more marketable if we decided to sell in the future. I have had another C34 owner (1988) with standard main, sail with me. After being out twice he would not hesitate to get in-mast furling as he did not notice any performace difference.
One benefit we have found with an in-mast main sail is the multiple reefing points. We have also learned to reef on the fly. The Admiral brings the boat up into the wind until the pressure is released, I immediately reef, the Admiral brings it back down as I am reefing. Takes us about 5 seconds total to reef doing this.
My first experience with in mast furling was on a Jeanneau 37 BVI charter back in 2002. We constantly had problems with the sail jamming when reefing. Other charters seemed to be OK so maybe they've improved the systems since then.
I'm still a little leery of the complexity's of in mast systems and was wondering if anyone had experience with in boom furling.
We still have the original system but would probably consider the stack pack if I was going to upgrade, just for the simplicity and lower cost.