My 93 C34 was fully painted last year by the previous owner with VC-17. He mentioned that some sailors on the Great Lakes only alternate between a full paint job and the rudder/keel/leading edge/water line. How many qts does it take to complete the touch up for those areas? I'll inspect more carefully but the paint looked to be in good condition.
My other question is how long does it typically take to wax the hull? Do you prefer to wax first or paint first? I need to get moving, splash down is May 2!
Here's a picture to give you an idea of how much (little) growth was on the bottom last fall.
(http://f.imagehost.org/t/0487/005_5.jpg) (http://f.imagehost.org/view/0487/005_5)
Mark
93 C34
This will be my second drop into the water since I've had it, and I'll be giving it another coat of VC17, I use alittle over 1 can of VC17.
This will be my first yr of waxing, I know it will most likely kill me :) Not really looking forward to it. I'll be using Collinite #920 and #925.
I drop into the water in 2 weeks.(Toronto)
The secret to waxing is using a good variable speed buffer with a quality bonnet. Start on a slow speed to spread the wax over a small section of the hull, then increase the speed to buff it off. I tried for years to do it by hand or with a cheap automotive type orbital buffer. Either way I just wasn't satisfied. You can pick up a good buffer at Harbor Frieght or Northern Tools for less than $100. I too use the Collinite products. Great stuff
I don't know if you've had any experience with Poliglow as a wax substitute, but I've been using this product for a handful of years now with good success. No more sore arms, shoulders or back - much less time and energy to apply. The cleanser makes getting the boat prepped very easy for the application of the product. You can purchase in a starter kit and then supplement with what you need for future seasons. I can attempt to post a picture of the topsides of my 1987 from last spring if you're interested.
I'll let everyone know how it works out, I'm heading over to the boat tomorrow despite a high of 48.
On the way I'm going to stop and pick up a variable speed polisher at Harbor Freight, thanks for the tip Ken. I think that will work better than the 10" orbital I borrowed.
I've read good and bad about Poliglow but since my gelcoat is still in great shape I'll stick to wax.
Mark
93 C34
Paul, I am interested in seeing a photo of your boat polished. Did you do the hull? Thanks, Susan
I usually apply 2 coats of bottom paint and only haul every 3 years. So while the first coat is drying I wax the hull the remainder of the first day, apply the second coat of bottom paint the second day, and splash the third. Then I sprawl in the cockpit and recoup with a cold one. :party
Jack
I have continued to use VC17 on Blue Moon. The first year I used rollers and paint pans to do the job. I ended up wearing as much paint as I got on the boat. The next year I talked to a guy who had used a Wagner Roll N Go paint roller system. I bought one for about $30.00 and it was a great investment. No pouring from the can to the pan, no paint running down my arm and no waste. Easy cleanup too. I know of two people who used the touch-up method around the water line and the leading edges of the keel etc. Seems to work ok on fresh water Lake Erie so I am going to give it a try. Normally I use about 2 3/4 quarts if I do the entire bottom.
I think I am going to try Prism Polish for the hull polishing this year. I have heard good things and there have been good comments about it on this site. I will probably seal the whole thing with an automotive polymer based final coat.
Mark Mueller
Blue Moon 815
1988
I am on Lake Superior, there is virtually no growth on the boat at all, the bottom paint is getting spotty, in that I see where it is gone in places, is it necessary to VC 17, the boat when in this kind of water?. I really don't know much about it. Isn't that the stuff that goes on coppery and turns blue later? What advantages are there to put it on. Thanks Bob
Bob,
The big advantage to VC-17 is it's hard and makes the boat go faster (Faster than even an unpainted hull). So the serious racers all use it. Fouling in freshwater isn't near as much a problem as salt water. Which is good for freshwater racers because they don't have to scrub the bottom as often. VC-17 is only fair at keeping the bottom clean is salt water.
The method I use is pretty simple for VC17. Using a 4" foam roller and a pan to fit. Sure it takes alittle longer(about 1.5-2 hrs) with the smaller brush. I mix the VC17 in the can. I then place back the plastic lid and cut a small "V" shape notch into the corner of the lid. I place a tape to cover the hole to prevent the stuff in the can from drying out, and still allows you to shake the can without spilling half of it out. I only pour out about 3/4cups out at a time. This way I'm able to take my time and not waste any of the VC17. I use up about 1 1/2cans. The unused portion is usable for the following yr as long as the can is sealed tightly.
Mark,
I thought about the Wagner method too, but was concerned that forcing the paint from the inside of the roller to the outside would filter out all the protective copper that's held in suspension in the paint. Since that is the basis for the protection in the paint, I decided against trying it.
Have you noticed this happening as you apply the VC 17?
Bob
I mix the VC-17 in the can
I put the VC-17 in a old clean KETCHUP bottle
I do all the job with 1 1/2 pint.
With the ketshup bottle there is no évaporation and you can shake the mix easily.. and apply the paint directly on the roll in the pan ... No loss paint...
Good season!
It took about 4 hours to clean and wax one side however most of the time was spent on removing the West Marine Cleaner Wax, it was very stubborn and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. The 3M cleaner wax came right off. Both of them came with the boat and did a good job cleaning up the light stains but there was a clear winner in terms of useability.
Many other sailors were bottom painting. One guy was using an old dawn bottle to dispense his VC-17 a little bit at a time into a paint tray. This seemed to work well so I'll give it a try.
Mark
I used to think combo "cleaner & wax" saved time. I learned it doesn't, because all you end up doing is waxing the dirt right into the hull. Unless it's perfectly clean already, in which case wax only is better anyway. Just my hull...
I have had no problem with the roller filtering out the copper from the VC17.
Mark Mueller
Blue Moon #815
1988
Some tips from using it for many years: :D
Use electrical tape to mask the bootstripe. It follows the curve much better than masking tape, does not allow seepage, and removes easily.
I always used the 4" disposable roller and tray. This is easy and quick.
VC sells a thinner. Add a little to the tray when it starts to evaporate: it will make the product go further. A lot further! Best is a windless day, not too hot. The copper powder quickly blows everywhere when you try to pour it in the can. Heat makes it evaporate fast.
You can paint and splash minutes later: it dries quickly.
Don't get any on the depth sounder transducer: the copper will mess it up.
Wear old clothes/shoes: best is a tyvek coverall, rubber gloves, a hat etc. you will wear a lot of it.
Tony
I used to paint the entire bottom every spring with VC17 until I read somewhere and cannot remember where that I may not need to it was probably here somewhere. They mentioned taking a fine grit sand paper and slightly roughing the surface and if the copper color came back no need to paint. So last spring I did just that and only painted worn areas and about foot around the water line. When we hauled out in the fall there no more or less slim on the bottom.
On the wax side of things I use a Mikita variable up to 3000 RPM rotary buffer with a 3m compounding buff pad. I clean the hull with simple green. Then use Meguire's one step cleaner wax for light oxidation. I put a small trail on the buff pad then at lowest speed apply to the boat once evenly spread out I kick it to 3000RPM and buff out. Thru trial I used the Meguires heavy duty cleaner wax and it was more difficult to take remove however it is handy for some deeper scratches or marks. I also tried putting the wax on the boat by hand that method put to much on the boat and was hard to take off. One last thing is it does work best in the shade or a cloudy day. I have used this method for five seasons and every year the hull comes out just a bit better that the year before.
Painted the bottom with VC-17 original on Saturday. It took 1.2 cans after using about 10% VC17 thinner. Do you think the extra VC-17 will be good next year?
Mark
Keep it until next year & try .....I have kept it for the next season. The copper may settle out & harden so shake it every month, keep it air tight. Try a smaller container so you can reduce the amount of air in the can. If some of the copper settles & hardens, the thinner may help to soften it before you paint next year.
At our marina our "chem expert" said the vc thinner is 95% alcohol, so a lot of sailors here thin with isopropyl alcohol. Seems to work. Goes farther & does not change how it works.
I have used VC17 for 20 years. At first the can said to use acetone to thin. After interlux took over, an interlux thinner came out at about $20 a can. Most of us kept on using acetone. Now we use alcohol, per our "chem experts" advice.
The best thing about VC is the lack of builb-up. I have had my 34 for 15 years. Took off the crud the PO had put on, did the VC tar & VC17 & have NEVER had to sand or scrape the bottom. Just paint or touch up as needed. Some people use 2 colors like blue over red. As the blue gets thin you can see the red in the thin spots & you know where to paint. The racers buff the VC with burlap so they can go faster. This or a very fine sanding will bring back the copper color of year old VC paint & you can get another year.
Thanks for the advice Phil. I'll see you on the bay soon. I'm over at Sandusky Harbor Marina.
Mark
Mark, I am going to Deep Water Marina in the morning to pull the cover. What a late start this year. Nothing but high wind,rain & cold. We had snow & sleet yesterday. Better days are coming !
Last year I completely redid the bottom. I removed many coats of soft flaking paint and applied a barrier coat (interprotect 2000) and 2 coats of vc-17. I am going to apply a complete additional coat of vc-17 this year. I have read on this MB and in the product info that you can launch within a half hour after painting. Here is my question. Is there a maximum time I can wait until launch? The reason I ask is there is another guy who uses vc-17 that says you have to launch within 24 hours after applying vc-17. I can't find that in writing anywhere..... which makes be believe it is BS. Anyone know for sure?
Steve
Steve,
I'm launching tomorrow-----my vc17 has been on for about a week. Some folks repainted last fall so their vc 17 has been on for about 6 mos. some folks only apply vc 17 every three yrs on the theory that the copper is still there when they lightly abrade their hull. There may be some info on the can, One thing i am certain of however : you do not have to launch within 24 hours!
!
good luck,
Ken
Thanks Ken,
That is pretty much what I thought. I should have known the info wasn't true, it was from a Hunter 34 owner.
Steve
I second that. I think that some racers believe that it works better if launched quickly. Not sure that there is any evidence to back this up, unless you sail the race within 24 hours after launch? :D
Below is a link that you might appreciate. We launched 90 boats at our club last Saturday, including Vagabond. A clearly talented photographer at our club has posted some great shots on Flickr. In the link you will see some of the many volunteers (everone in a hard hat is a volunteer) that make it possible to safely launch 90 boats in 6 hours, with the assistance of 2 mobile cranes (only the crane drivers get paid for this job). You will see that many of the boats have fresh VC17 coating: most were painted 2 or three weeks ago. Vagabond is pictured, as is at least one other C34.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cooriedoon/sets/72157617576213139/
Tony
Tony,
Great pictures. A little off topic of vc-17..... but your operation is considerably different than we launch. I am one of the few 34 owners who launch and haul with a trailer, not because we want to, we just don't have another option.
Steve
I know, but there are lots of VC17 painted hulls in the photo, and every boat has been carefully polished...The photos were so good, I had to share.
That must be some trailer to support 16,000 lb? What do you tow it with?
Tony
I am going to show my ignorance here, what is VC-17?
Jack
Jack: VC-17M is a product made by InterLux with Teflon and copper. Use by racers in freshwater and anywhere relatively low fouling is expected.
Tony
Yesterday another sailor in our marina asked Interlux Technical Service the following question........
"I am putting on a new coat of VC-17 Biolux. I was told by another sailor that I must launch the boat within 48 hours or the effectiveness of the product diminshes. Is this true or is there a specific time frame? Thank you."
This is the answer from Interlux......
"When applying VC-17m w/biolux, you have a maximum of 60 days prior to launch without losing the effectiveness of the coating. Hope this helps to clarify any questions or concerns."
Tony, I will start a new topic in a few days with pictures that show my trailer and explain our launch and haul process. It also involves teamwork and several vehicles. All boats in our marina use trailers (some bigger than mine), cuz we don't have a boat lift.
Steve
I am on Lake Ontario and a lot of the guys in the yard touch up every other year. I do the whole boat out of habit. We all used to use the Wagner and work in teams one guy mixing one spraying. Seems now we all role... mix a little acetone with you VZ 17 does not hurt it and saves on evaporation.
Waxing... most of our yard uses 3M Cleaner/Wax, even our boat yard roust abouts. I used to do the Collonite Cleaner then paste wax and got great results with that. I have found different hulls react differently to product. My Irwin liked Collonite, my C34... not as much. I suspect you are in by now regardless. :thumb: