It seems we are all pretty much unanimous. The Honda generators are beautiful, ultra reliable machines that belong on C34s. The only choice is the EU1000 for general duty or the EU2000 if you like your water hot and you don't mind bumping your knees when you slip in to the dinette They have a lovely reputation.
They also have a lovely price tag. The local Honda dealer quoted me $999 + $60 PDI. (Canadian dollars.)
For about 1/4 of the price I went out and bought the "Yardworks" Canadian Tire machine. 4 year warranty - 50W less output - 1dB more noise.
I look at Hondas and the Yamahas and Cummins Onan units and begin to wonder if all these machines aren't coming out of the same damn factory in China. I'm sure the Honda is better, but I'm not convinced it's 4 times better.
I'll take my chances.
Brought it home, filled it with oil, a few drops of gas, fired it up and sent Foster to get the hairdryer. Works great. Turned the hair dryer on the high setting. Damned if we didn't kill it. Sure enough had a look at the hair dryer and it's 1750W almost double the rating of the generator. We overloaded it, but it shut down gracefully and started again no problem.
I'll take it on the boat and see how it does.
I'll report back on how it fares in the C34 environment. If it runs well through its four year warranty period, I'll be a happy customer. If it's a major pain in the butt, I'll accidentally lose it off the swim grid, never admit my error, and quietly buy a Honda...
Steve,
Does it fit in the portside cockpit locker?
Dave
Steve - This is where we're deficient in the US. No Canadian Tire or Tim Horton's. You can take back all your geese though.
Craig
QuoteI'll report back on how it fares in the C34 environment. If it runs well through its four year warranty period, I'll be a happy customer. If it's a major pain in the butt, I'll accidentally lose it off the swim grid, never admit my error, and quietly buy a Honda...
you will never make it in politics with honesty like that. I really hope it works out. I sat on the fence for a while before purchasing a Honda. The lemming effect had a strong influence on me as well as parts availability on the imitation I was thinking about (Kipor). I'd like to see someone start competing with Honda a little more.
Steve,
I looked at the Canadian tire one during the winter and posted the question here. There is definitely a strong Honda following. I really want to hear about your results, like where you are keeping it when stored / when running. Oil change recommendations were a lot more frequent if I remember right. How noisy is it?
I saw the Kipor at an RV parts store. It looks a lot like the Honda. Here in Canada the Kipor is not cheaper enough over the Honda.
I live an hour and a half from the US border and Mayberrys will ship free in US for around $650 (or $630 I can't remember). There are drop off places that only charge a few dollars to hold package.
The yardworks for $280 (on sale again) is worth looking into again...
Also, what battery charger are you using (i.e. can generator handle it)?
There doesn't appear to be any dimensional spec for the unit so I took my tape measure to the store and and its about 1/4" taller than the Honda, so I'm betting I can squeeze it in the port side locker.
Pierre, I saw your earlier posting. I was waiting for you to take the plunge, buy the unit and report back to us! Somebody has to try these cheap generators and see how they work out. Wait a minute, maybe half of the members here have already done that, kicked them off their swim grids, and quietly bought Hondas without mentioning...
Anyway, I'm not concerned about whether the generator can handle the charger. They claim "true sine wave" output. Maybe I should bring into work and have a look at the waveform. It probably has some step to it. But the charger full out would be 40A at 14V or so ~ around 560W output. Even if it was only 60% efficient it would still be OK. Somebody checked with Xantrex and posted actual draw as quoted by the manufacturer - you can do a search on "generators" to find it. It's not a concern unless you have a huge charger and a bank that will take huge amps.
While in the states for a vacation in April, I ordered a E2000 from Mayberry for $879 all in. Canadian price was $1599 plus PST and GST. No state tax and shipping to Point Roberts,Washington included. I declared this as part of my $750 duty free and the nice people at Canada Customs waived any fees on the difference.
I too looked at the other options but a frend of mine who has worked for a Honda dealer and now works for a indy shop suggested to go with big red!
Bottom line, you get what you pay for. Good luck!
Guys : The Honda eu1000 WILL fit in the port side cockpit locker for storage.
I've had mine for either 3 or 4 years. Here are a few observations:
1. The Honda engine has a low oil cut off !! So just because you think it has enough oil, it will not stay running if the oil is not completely full. There is a low oil light that will light up - so pay attention to the "back " of the unit. As I was spewing a few 4 letter words, my 1st Mate asked why that light was coming ON!!
2. When the Honda won't start and you keep pulling and it sounds like it won't start (a particular sound) you may have another problem. I took some "turner cleaner" from Radio Shack and sprayed it into the ON/OFF switch case. The next pull it started!!
A few tips!! :D
Steve,
I bought one also @ $279. I tried it this weekend and I could not use it with my Truecharge 20+. I have my charger on the push button breaker and If I turn the breaker off, I was able to plug the AC and use a laptop, charge a phone, but if I turned on the charger, the internal overload would kick in (i.e. red light / no AC).
Have you had any luck?
Based on the numbers you calculated, you thought 850W was more then enough. I'm wondering If I have something else wrong in my AC wiring. I can use my charger on shore power.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
I also fired mine up this weekend. I took extra care to make sure I ran the refridgeration overnight, lots of lights, music etc. Batteries were definitely in need of a charge. I have the Trucharge 40. The generator had no problem serving the load of the charger.
I also have a small microwave that I think is nominally 700W but it overloads the generator causing shutdown.
My conclusion with the whole generator experience is that if I go to Mexico, I'm investing in solar panels. I would not kick this little green unit off the swim grid and buy a Honda. For the price, it seems to do the job quite well.
"THE" question remains: Does this one heat the HW heater or not?
If it DOES or DOES NOT is the ONLY criteria of the owners for the SIZE of the generator in amps (maybe not physical).
The size of the house bank and the size of the charger are almost only an afterthought based on the peak load and draw.
So: given that, what's the conclusion ( in addition to solar for Mexico)?
Does it or doesn't it, or am I doing a 1960s Clariol commercial?
Steve,
I'm going to have to investigate why it would not run the charger. Last night I tried a 500W spot light also no success. I tried a portable 10A battery charger ok.
If I can get my truecharge 20+ working, then I'll be happy. I might have to try removing from inside wiring and rewire it to a plug so I can try stand alone and see if it works (that would show if I have wiring problem).
-PC
Quote from: Stu Jackson on July 07, 2008, 06:41:42 PM
"THE" question remains: Does this one heat the HW heater or not?
For $280, you don't get hot water.
Pierre, if a 950W generator can't run a 500W resistive load - it aint a 950W generator. Kick it off the transom. Buy a Honda. But then I had no problem.
Can you run the 500W light directly plugged into the generator? You may be on the path to indentifying a major problem with your wiring. I think you should buy a thermal imaging camera and go looking for hot spots!
Steve,
I was home when I tested with the 500w flood light (right into the generator). I guess I'll have to return it.
Thanks
I have a honda 1000w, I bought a cord to go from the honda to the shore power connection and the honda wanted to trip out. There is a rocker on the honda that should be off when starting and activated while running. I have been told that was my problem but havn't been up to the boat to try it, also I may have had my hotwater heater on when I plugged it in. Wouldn't it be great to have the boat home when we want to try something?
Also Ron, I tried to put it in my port locker and the lid wouldn't close, it was close but I needed another 1/4 to 1/2" to close it. Did you have to modify yours a little bit to get it to fit? I have a 1988 hull number 613, I have no doubt yours fits but I wonder why I can't get mine in.
My friend just bought a 2000 for under 900 bucks at fleet supply in MN. My 1000 cost me $589.00 at fleet. Bob
I have a Honda 1000 watt gen that runs my Truecharge 20 + with discharged batts with no problem. Will not fit in cockpit lockers, but perfect fit in anchor locker. A thought....
Quote from: Craig Illman on June 25, 2008, 06:07:53 AM
Steve - This is where we're deficient in the US. No Canadian Tire or Tim Horton's. You can take back all your geese though.
Craig
Wait a minute--We do have Tim Horton's in the US. That chain bought up all the Bess Eaton's in the northeast when Bess Eaton went belly up. I have one less than a mile from where I sit here in Norwich, Connecticut, US of A.
Tony
Helen C/#903
Std/Wing
Just an update.
Inexplicably, the cheap generator fell overboard.
I shall quietly buy a Honda...
Doh! I hate it when that happens. Can we get a report on how well it worked before it went overboard?
Maybe it's just the way I read it, but somehow I think it's the way it worked that caused its fall...
Sounds like another trip for the CrabCam!
:sick
Don't ask, don't telll :D
Uh. So we have to know the details. Can't just leave it at its poetic aquatic metaphoric ending?
Alright. Technically it's in my garage. It will go back to Canadian Tire. I wanted to throw it overboard, but Tracey wouldn't let me. She said she would take it back to the store.
It runs great. It starts easy. It's quiet. It worked well on my test run. So I threw out the packaging.
Somehow it knew I would do this.
One day, we had deeply depleted the battery bank. (As newly measured with my Xantrex Link battery monitor - rated as my second best upgrade this summer, just narrowly behind the cockpit shower). We fired up the generator, plugged into it, and turned on the charger. Overload.
Much fussing. Tricked it by turning on engine then firing it up and shutting the engine off. Worked! Charger would put out 30A+. Ran out the small amount of gas. Could not repeat. Overload.
Much more fussing on many days. Overload. Now I just start the thing with nothing plugged in and it's overloaded.
I have given enough of my life to this generator. I want our relationship to end. I am prepared to do so in an abrupt and brutal manner. Tracey is trying to mediate and make it amicable for both parties.
Let me know if you are successfull in returning it.
I had the same overload problem and the "all of a sudden it stopped" scenario (with plenty of fuel left). I was getting ready to take it back for warranty repair (i.e. make it work as advertised, maybe with some replacement parts they can make it work properly), but maybe I should just look at getting my money back...
Thanks,
Pierre
The following is from the Xantrex FAQs.
This may be the same issue
I have the Trucharge 40 and thought of buying the Honda EU1000, after reading the following I may need to rethink and possible purchase the Honda EU2000.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Using Truecharge with a Generator
You have an 850 W generator which can surge to 1000 W and try to power Truecharge 40, but the charger never reaches the 40 A charge current level despite the batteries being heavily discharged. What's happening?
The Truecharge 40 is being starved of AC power during bulk mode.
Calculate:
(43 Amps x 13.5 Volts)
------------------------------------- = 1150 VA
(0.80 efficiency x 0.63 power factor)
1150 VA is the power required by Truecharge during bulk charge.
Although Truecharge will still operate down to 90 VAC input, the drawbacks to an undersized generator are:
- The TRUECHARGE cannot provide the full bulk current of 43A, therefore it will take longer to charge deeply discharged batteries.
- If the generator operates at it's maximum output for a prolonged period it may overheat the generator before the TRUECHARGE goes into the lower power absorption charge.
- We recommend you use at least an 1200W continuous duty generator, and we recommend a 12A AC source in the manual. An alternate solution would be to use the lower power TRUECHARGE 20.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steve
Power share: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=1474.0
Don't know if it applies, but perhaps the Link will do it for you.
Very interesting. 0.63 Power Factor? Yikes. What happened to unity?
I would completely dismiss the Xantrex argument for a larger generator on the basis of efficiency, charge speed, and potential to overheat for a moderately sized bank. You're not going to stick at 43A output for very long even with a very robust AC input. However the argument is very relevant for peak size issue. If your generator won't turn on because it has overload protection, you may be doomed.
In the case of the green thing. It's dead. The store confirmed that it's dead. They fired it up and it will not serve any load of any size. They have also informed us that they do not accept returns of gasoline powered devices. However, it is covered by warranty! Great. 4 years of untrustworthy performance guaranteed! It will never go back on my boat. Tracey is going back to see the manager tomorrow. I'm glad she has the patience. I would have created an unpleasant scene...
Tracey had to work her way up through 3 levels of management with sweetness and reason. Today, they finally gave her a refund for the green generator. Bad products backed by exceptionally bad service.
And I had a chat with my friend at Xantrex today and told him to go ahead and cash the cheque for the inverter and battery monitor which are performing brilliantly. I told him about my generator woes. He has actually toured the plant where they are built and said if I'd asked him in advance, I never would have bought one. Cheap generators are just that. Cheap generators. They are not better value. He says I should buy a Honda...
Based on the title of this thread, I think I knew the outcome before I even started. So why did I bother?
FYI: Xantrex is being acquired by Schneider.
Where do you store these generators when not in use and when in use, in cockpit where????
When not in use I keep mine on the cockpit floor just ahead of the pedestal. Some folks manage to squeeze it into the cockpit locker, I don't have the room and don't think gas should be stored in an enclosed locker with possible venting to the bildge.
I have a walk thru transom so in use I have 2 choices, either behind the wheel with the exhaust pointed aft using the short 115vAC pigtail or if we are going to be in the cockpit, on the foredeck using the 115vAC pigtail and the shore power cord.
I have to Honda 2000 unit.