Following up on a couple of threads about batteries, I would like to know if anyone with a 1999 vintage MkII (Calypso is #1431) has replaced their 4Ds with 4 East Penn, Interstate or Trojan 6 volt golf cart batteries. I have done measurements of the boxes holding the existing 4Ds and I am concerned that the golf cart batteries won't quite fit them. I would like to make the switch but I don't want to have to cut up or replace the existing boxes.
If you have done it I would love to hear about it.
I have a 2001 Mk II and replaced my 4D's with Trojan golf cart batteries. I used the 125's and although a little higher they fit perfectly without much rearranging the storage space.
I am happy with them and use them for all electrical. I do not have a starting circuit battery and carry a "Coleman suitcase battery" that is a jump starter, emergency light, etc that is capable of starting the engine over three times without getting recharged. I tried it out just in-case)
At anchor I can usually go for two or three days before I start up and charge the batteries. (with the refrig going all the time)
John--I have a 1998 (#1414) and ran across the problem you describe. I elected to split each battery case in half and fiberglass in the space needed to expand the boxes to allow the Trojans to fit. I ground down inside and outside the cut in each box to connect the new fiberglass to the old and to keep the boxes level (no humps in the transition). The larger (longer) boxes fit back into the same space (next to the water heater). So far, no problems.
Thanks folks. Roger, do you recall the absolute minimum you would have had to increase the internal box length to accommodate the two new Trojan batteries? The reason I am asking is that the East Penn batteries are just a bit smaller that the Trojans resulting in a saving of 1/4" when using two of them. Did you need more than a 1/4"?
I am assuming that the fiberglass box size must have changed between 1999 and 2001 although it seems odd that this would have happened as Catalina puts a lot of 4Ds into a lot of boats and the earlier box that Roger and I have certainly fits a 4D without a problem.
John--I don't recall exactly; however, 1" (or a little more) sounds about right. The Trojans are 10 3/8" each, so each of my battery holders ended up around 20 3/4". The space I had available was 21"...so they just fit. Note, my battery boxes are flared at the top, so any measurements you make should be done from the bottom of the boxes. To get it right, I just cut the boxes in half, spread them apart, set the Trojans in the split box, and measured the gap I needed to glass...perfect fit. I'm going to the boat this weekend, so if you would like the exact measurement, let me know and I'll get it for you.
Thanks Roger.That is close enough so please don't go to any further effort. I appreciate the help and will ponder my options. The 2 4Ds in parallel have been fine for 9 years so I may just go with replacing them when the time is right. We rarely stay in an anchorage more than two days and I have never had any trouble with battery power especially as I carry a Honda 1000 generator on board and can give the batteries a bit of a poke via the charger if required.
Hi guys,
As you have noticed, the overall length of a standard 4D at the top is about the same as a pair of golf cart batteries. However, the bottom of the case of an 4D is only about 19 inches and change. If you have a tapered battery box you have to give that consideration in your choice of alternate battery compositions. A pair of Lifeline AGM 4C (golf cart) batteries arranged end-to-end have a dimension of exactly 20.5 inches at the bottom of a battery box. A pair of Trojans will have a length slightly more than that at the bottom of the battery box.
If you have enough vertical clearance, you can block the golf cart batteries up higher with wooden spacers and sometime make then fit into the bottom of a tight 4D box.
For reference, the Trojan batteries in general are the best of the flooded cell golf cart batteries, and the T105 is the best energy bargain of the Trojan line. The Interstates are so-so, but certainly no T105 by any method of comparison. I have no personal experience with the East Penn golf cart batteries, but they also are probably not equal to the Trojans based upon their other battery offerings.
If you don't like the smell and maintenance of flooded cells, then go to the Lifeline GPL-4CT which is a sealed, no maintenance premium AGM deep cycle battery with impressive ratings. While they are nominally rated at 220 a-hrs at a 20 hr discharge rate, the actual reserve minutes numbers ( and my own testing ) indicate that a pair of GPL-4C Lifelines will provide more energy output at any discharge level of 25 amp or lower than even an 8D battery, and considerably more than a 4D battery, of any flavor, including Lifeline.
Just a little unsolicited commentary...
John
John : Great info!! I've always noted that the AGM batteries usually have one more year of warrentee that flooded batteries.
I'll suspect that the cost is a bit higher, but then you pay for what you get! :thumb:
From those of us with aging backs (among other things :D)
4D batteries are VERY HEAVY. I have found that replacement of anything heavy with two or more smaller things is invariably a healthier approach.
Whether or not the old heavy banks have lasted nine years appears to be an inconclusive issue, given the energy budget, usage and the technical capabilities of golf cart batteries, AGMs, or even smaller 12V batteries, compared to 4Ds.
Being a newbie....
Why use Golf cart Batteries ? Is it the size or longevity of the battery or Cost $$ ?
It is simply one of many options. See: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-battery-selection.html Also see: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-electrical-system-upgrade-2.html
Great Information Thank You :clap
6v batteries tend to provide a higher amp-hour delivery for the same footprint because they run a little taller, and their plates can be thicker. Most 6v products also claim to be more reliable and deliver more cycles than average. They're definitely more expensive, however, even on an amp-hour basis. I think Stu's got the right idea that for the comparable footprint of a 4D, I'd rather tote half the weight in a 6v package. I'm converting to 6v batteries because they fit perfectly in the Mark I starboard settee box (as I'm sure two 4Ds would, but they would require a mate to install them).
Jon,
I would disagree with the more expensive part. I paid $45 ea. for my golf cart batteries at Sam's Club. That's $90 for 220 Ah at 12v. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a deep cycle 4D for that price.
Ted, I think you found an extraordinarily good deal. Is this an everyday offering/price or some kind of close-out, one-of-a-kind deal? I'm also a big fan of the you-get-what-you-pay-for theory (at least within reason); I seem to get burned every time I take up a good deal. But I'm hoping you got a whole lot more than you paid for :clap
About five years back I did a little research in Florida on Golf Cart batteries. After visiting a number of Golf Cart suppliers and asking about various batteries, I found many were disappointed with the life of theit Trojan 105 batteries, and were using a battery supplied by US Battery. The US battery used was their U2200.I also found , at the time Cosco stores were selling this battery for about $50.
Coming back to Ohio I found Cosco in Cleveland did not handle the US Battery brand. I got in touch with US Battery and they informed me that they supply this same battery to Interstate as model US2200. I contacted the local Interstate wholesaler and purchased 4 batteries $229.83. I had to enlarge my battery box to 20 1/2 " since the base of the two batteries measured 20 1/4"x6 3/4". Original box measured 20 1/8" x 8 1/8".
I now have had 4 seasons with these batteries, two of which were spent cruising the North Channel and Lake Michigan for 7 weeks The charged voltage for the pairs settles out at 12.73 V after a month of disconnected storage on the boat. They are still performing like new batteries after 4 seasons, and I expect to get another 3 years out of the sets.To say the least, I am very satisfied with these batteries and would never consider the higher priced Trojans.
Jack F Stewart
1993 C36 #1233 "Windancer"
Port Clinton, OH
Jon,
That was the every day low price, albeit a few years ago. Here's the whole story: The first golf cart batteries I bought at Sam's were $40 ea. The charger that came with boat (a ferro-resonant) cooked them after a couple of years. When I replaced the charger and the batteries the price went up to $45 ea. I think that was about 5 years ago. They've been going strong ever since.
One of my aunts told me: "Not all sales are bargains and not all bargains are sales." Having spent much of the past almost 10 years trying to avoid paying list price for anything for our boat, I, like many of you, do a lot of comparison shopping. Well before it became the "Evil Empire" I began to avoid West Marine. For batteries, we have had a number of local C34 IA and Fleet 1 members advise on good deals they've had here in the SF Bay area. I think I recall mentioning American Battery in Hayward, CA. 130 ah 12V wet cells for only $95 each two years ago when WMP's price was over $130. Those kinds of "deals" only come from persistence and patience. The same is true for any batteries, 12V, 6V, AGM or gel.
Ted brings up the valuable lesson about chargers and their impact on battery life. The $ spent on a good charger is an almost instant return on your investment because of extended battery life. So, those of you still with FlyBacks... (see reply #6 at: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3716.0)
our 1997 4-D boxes were a tad small. On projects page we found nice pic and used that as our guide. Cut new battery boxes leaving about 4" of depth and used screws and washers to hold in place. As others have said, it is well worth the effort. The Trojans (105's) are so much easier on the back, and they seemed to recharge faster and hold a charge longer.
For northwesterners:
I tried 4 D125's from these folks this summer. They are a local manufacturer in Seattle.
http://www.dynobattery.com/index.htm
They are carried by Fisheries Supply and are much less expensive than Trojans. Time will tell if they are a bargain.
Randy
I checked the current price at Sam's. They're $61.48 now, still a good deal I think. The key when you're buying batteries there is to check the manufacture date. It'll be on a sticker somewhere on the battery. Often a letter is used for the month instead of a number. You want the newest, freshest battery you can get since they're not getting a charge while sitting on the shelf. I have seen batteries as old as 6 months there.
John, I purchased a '91 C34 in '05 which came with a starting battery in the settee box forward of the galley and four Trojan T-105 golf cart batteries in the settee storage compartment just aft of the v-berth bulkhead. Replaced the T-105s last year because they were 8 or 9 years old, tho still holding a charge.
Best wishes,
Bill Asbury
'91 C34 #1140
AVANTI