After clogging the primary Racor filter a couple of times over the past two seasons, I'm going to try to clean up the PO's dirty fuel/fuel tank. I'm going to add some biocide (again)---wait a couple of days and then siphon the existing fuel out of the tank via either the fuel tank inlet or the access plate in the port cockpit locker. The boat is up on jack stands. Once that is accomplished I need to clean up the tank. Per this forum, I will remove the filter screen on the pick up tube first and then proceed to try and clean sludge out of the tank. I've read about various approaches from steam cleaning, use of acetone, alcohol etc. I'd like any advice on a simple way to improve the condition of the tank (by reaching in and swiping surfaces?)short of removal or use of professional cleaning service. If I'm not successful this year, then I'll probably pull the tank next season and replace it. I am aware that alot of folks "polish" their fuel by pumping through and replacing filters as they get clogged. I still may default to this after attempting a cleaning of the tank.
thanks in advance,
Ken
Ken,
You've broken the code.
There isn't a simple means to access the inside of the tank unless you intend to cut the tank and fabricate access plates. Due to minimal cost of a replacing the tank, it's not worth the effort unless you have the appropriate sheet metal tools, sealant and riveting equipment available.
Check out Ron Hill's Mainsheet article on tank removal. It's pretty simple to use your electric fuel pump to safely remove the contents of the tank. This has the added advantage of filtering the fuel as well allowing it to be reused (if desired) after you've cleaned the system. 5 Gallon diesel jerry cans work well for this. Since the fuel tank is easy to remove on the Catalina 34, conventional wisdom dictates that it be removed every 5 years or so for cleaning.
Also, the 5000-series alloy in the tank is susceptible to corrosion, the most insidious of which is caused by water and other contaminants in the bottom of the tank. The tank corrodes from the inside out in this case and is evidenced by fuel weeping out of pinholes on the bottom of the tank. This type of corrosion may not be evident until AFTER you've cleaned the tank--because, for a time, the contamination that cause the corrosion is likely to be blocking the pinholes! Eventually, however, the tank will begin to leak. This is fairly easy to spot due to the red dye in the fuel. This is one reason that you should always leak check the tank after removal and cleaning BEFORE you reinstall it in the boat!
Best of luck,
Mike
I hope that you will forgive me for over simplifying the problem, but as soon as you mentioned the Screen on the end of your fuel pick-up tube it rang a bell. If it has been there all this time, you may just luck out and find that it is the problem. So, take it off and throw it far away never to be seen again. It's a lot easier to change the Rocor as it continually works to clean your tank. Hopefully that will be all that you will have to do.
Good Luck, Dave
Ken : Your boat is of the vintage that as I said in my Mainsheet article - REMOVE THE TANK AND CLEAN IT!!
At the price of a new tank of about $250, it my not be a bad idea to treat yourself to a new tank(and eliminate any possible corrosion that Mike mentioned).
One of our C34 owners that totted his "fuel polishing system" that he install a number years back gave me a call. He finally remove his fuel tank and the last gallon or two would not go thru the funnel-strainer!! It was like chocolate syrup - thick as GOOP. He's now cleaning his tank!
Moral of the story is to remove the tank every 5 -6 years and stop chewing up Racor filters. The nature of diesel is that critters grow in the microscopic water particles + "dirty" fuel that you get from somewhere?
It took me longer to clean out the aft cabin than it took to remove the port panel and the tank.
A Thought. :wink:
Ken,
A thorough, professional cleaning is the only way to go. And the price of that is such that you may just want to buy a new tank. The price of a new tank is about $310, by the way. That includes all the fittings and a fuel level sender. I know that because I just bought a new one. Here's my story: I had the tank professionally cleaned a few years ago. It started clogging filters again so I attempted to clean it myself this summer. A couple months later it began to leak, just like Mike said. So I pumped it out again. I was able to talk the yard into taking the fuel (I pumped it through the filter) for one of their yard trucks thus saving the cost of disposal. When I pulled the tank out, removed all the fittings and got a good look inside I was amazed at all the crud still stuck to the bottom and sides. This stuff was just waiting to bust loose and clog another filter. Only a thorough steam cleaning can do the job. And then you have to leak check it. In the end I think the best solution is to order a new tank. I wish I'd done that sooner.
OK, all you "New Tank" folks, I'm convinced. Sure beats cleaning the old one. Once you're in there, might as well go for it.
So, where does one get the tank (Catalina I presume)? What are the ordering specs, any suggestions for comments when you order, and all the rest of the interesting details.
It can't be as simple as calling Robert and saying: "Send me a new tank for my #224 1986 C34, please.", or is it?
If you've just ordered one, what's the part #?
Oh, last thing, any pictures for the Projects section of the 'site?
Guy's: The main reason that I removed mine and cleaned it myself is that when I called around NOBODY would touch my tank when I said it was a Fuel tank (diesel didn't make any difference!!!). Read my Mainsheet article.
Stu: The part # is F50081 (found it in the parts list on the C34IA web site) and there are pictures with my Mainsheet article!
Couldn't help but needle our Message Board librarian (smile). :wink:
Stu,
It is as simple as calling Robert and asking for a new tank. 8) I checked the price, mine was $310 plus $17 for shipping. In addition you'll need a jerry can or two to pump the fuel into. You should be able to recycle the old one at a scrap dealer (the one near my boat wanted the tank cut open first). The part # on my invoice is 20757.
Ok ---thanks you all. I'm convinced. This year the pick up line screen removal and perhaps some polishing----next year a new tank. thanks much!
Best,
Ken
:D
Ken : Around the Chesapeake it will cost you about $250 to have someone come in and "polish" your fuel. That job will NOT clean the inside of the tank and get all of the crud off of the bottom & sides. In-fact it's a waste of money when the tank in a C34 is so easily removed!! It's also more than 1/2 the price of a new tank - for nearly nothing!!
On the pickup screen - if you don't remove it your engine might stop from fuel starvation. No big deal unless you're in a tight spot. After all you still have sails and you'll know the most likely reason that the engine stopped!
Personally, I wouldn't gamble with the pickup tube screen nor a dirty tank. Your choice. A few thoughts. :roll:
Thanks Ron,
I agree that it would be foolish (or fuelish) economically to spend half of what a new tank will cost. If I polish my fuel, I would do it myself pursuant to the steps outlined in this forum. This year I'm going to keep my eye on the glass bowl in the Racor, particularly after a rough water cruise, and change the filter (more often) preventively. The Racor cost also eats into the would be cost of a new tank but I think for this season frequent replacement, as necessary, may be the best insurance.
By the way, this hasn't been a crisis. I had one engine failure last season and one the season prior. My sails were up and it turned out that the episode was an annoyance but not truly dangerous. Had I changed the filter mid season after an extensive cruise my guess is that I would not have experienced fuel starvation. That said, there is still crud in the tank that must be dealt with and its clear that the only answer is a new tank or expensive cleaning that may not even solve the problem.
thanks again for your thoughts,
Ken
Ken
I think your choice is a wise one. Only thing is the Racors, if you're using the R24S, are only about $25 a pop, so if you use 2 a season, that's only $50, and one of them is required, so you're only using one more than "normal." Yeah, percentage-wise it's 10% of the new tank, but if you think of the new tank as a replacement, and the filters as maintenance, you can justify it to the bean counters who have separate pockets for each identifiable category of boat expenditures. Of course, frivolous is NOT a category. See: http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2024 {Question about boat value} - scroll to the last post on the thread
PS Ron's written a very nice piece about tank removal, coming to your Mainsheet magazine soon.
Hi, I have a question. I have a 1987 hull number 243 and my fuel tank (or what I thought was my fuel tank) is not metal but is plastic. It is on the port side directly below the engine panel.
Could it have been replace by a previous owner?
Rick,
My bet is that it was almost certainly replaced by a PO. Maybe its really clean (unlike mine).
Ken
Rick : You could have a plastic fuel tank!
A many years back Catalina Parts told me that you could get a C34 metal or plastic tank replacement. I put that word out. Then a few years later when I told that to someone, I was told that Catalina ONLY had metal tanks.
Your PO could have replaced your original with a plastic tank during the period that they had both! :wink:
I replaced my fuel tank last year; and have a "watch out" for you.
Catalina included new fittings (fuel out and fuel return) with barbed ends as well as a new sender with the new tank. However, both ends of the fittings, the barbed and the threaded were different dimensions from mine. At first I thought it was just the barbed end so I figured I would just re-install the old ones. Then I realized the threaded end was also different. After a few phone calls, Catalina sent me the correct fittings. Cost me 2 additional weeks to get the job finished.
So the "watch out" is, give them the dimensions of your fittings so that they send you the configuration.
Ed
One more "gotcha" is the type of metal that the fitting is made from. Best to use all aluminum to avoid dissimilar metal corrosion. Older tanks used brass fittings. If you can't wait for the proper sized fitting, you can make an "in line" reducer out of a brass fitting to allow you to mate a 1/2" nipple at the tank to your existing 3/8" line (for example). Be sure to leave the line slightly over-length if you intend to come back and remove the reducer and hook up the fuel line to a proper sized fitting at some point in the future. Be sure to properly seal the threads of the fittings during installation. The only down-side to this type of "reducer" in-line as a potential leak point in the future. Although our boats have a low-pressure system, all fuel lines should be double clamped. When I replaced our tank last year, the original clamps had corroded so badly that most of them simply snapped off in my hand.
Cheers,
Mike
OK guys, I've been listening in and I too am going to replace my tank. I have a 1987 C-34, #296. My engine was replaced in 1991 with a Westerbeke 27 hp. Aside from the new tank, what do I need to do to my engine to make sure any old fuel in the system does not contaminated new fuel in a new tank, or does it mater? Thanks, Jerry
Jerry,
You shouldn't have to do anything. Any fuel that's made it to your engine has been filtered already (if it wasn't your engine would be toast). 8)
Jerry : Ted is right. Just make sure that you have a clean 2 micron Racor filter and a clean engine fuel filter.
From the age of your boat I'd definitely pull the tank and clean/replace it. That'll save you much grief in the future!! :!:
OK, I am going to replace my tank in my '87 #332. However I can't find the "Main Sheet article" on how to do it. Vol. 22 #4 Nov. 2004 says it has it, but only has a rudder modification. Vol. 21 #4 Nov. 2003 has the same index but I get this "You have reached a page that is either non-existant or in error" Also can anyone tell me what the time was from ordering the tank to having delivered so I can figure out if I need to cancel my Memorial weekend plans? Thanks, Joel
Joel,
First, empty your tank. Easiest way to do it is to attach a temporary hose to the OUT side of the electric fuel pump. Have enough jerry cans handy to hold the fuel. Since it's run through your primary filter first, it should be clean enough to re-use. You can turn the pump on and off with the key on your engine control panel.
Then, clean out your aft compartment! This may be the worst part of the job...
Remove the port teak bulkhead in the aft berth. This is held in place with wood screws around the forward, aft and lower perimeter.
To remove the tank, you'll need to disconnect the fill hose (large hose on the top aft end) and the vent hose (small hose on the top aft end). Both hoses are held in place with hose clamps and may be re-used if they are in good shape. Disconnect the two wires leading to the fuel sender. Disconnect the fuel lines from the front of the tank.
If you haven't recently replaced the fuel lines, find USCG approved fuel line and replace them as well. You'll have a line from the tank to the electric pump and from the pump to the engine, as well as a fuel return line from the engine back to the tank. Be sure to plug your lines as you work to avoid small fuel spills--the diesel smell is tough to get rid of, so it pays to work neatly! After you've disconnected all the lines, the tank can be removed by loosening the lag bolts along the flange welded to the forward bottom edge of the tank. I believe that the older stock tanks had two or three bolts. Before you lift the tank off the shelf, plug the ports since you'll still have some fuel and/or sludge in the tank that can spill.
Get someone to help you lift the tank out of the aft compartment--this will help avoid spills.
Re-install in reverse order. You may have to drill new holes for the lag bolts that secure the tank, but be careful when you drill the outboard hole (closest to the hull) to make sure that you don't drill through the hull (this is an important safety technique!). Our new tank came with the flange pre-drilled for two 1/4" lag bolts. I drilled an additional two holes in the flange for a total of four bolts. The purpose of the bolts is to keep the tank from shifting--it is held in place by the support platform, hull and bulkhead.
Measure the inside diameter of your fuel lines and specify the proper dimension for the fuel fittings when you order the new tank. Depending on manufacture, you may or may not be able to use your old fittings, but many old fittings are brass or steel and best avoided to eliminate problems with dissimilar metal corrosion. Aluminum pipe fittings are not common and generally not available at the local hardware store. I'd also recommend that you replace the fuel sender unit at this time. Be sure to seal the gasket with a sealant appropriate for use in fuel systems.
This technique was shamelessly stolen from a great article written by Ron Hill for the Mainsheet!
Best of luck,
Mike