Just read Steve Ormond's June article (re: engine electrical panel). I have experienced the same problem (all gauges fail with engine running). I concluded there was a problem with the ignition wire. Attempts to remove the panel were unsuccessful. The six mounting screws had nuts on the back and I could not reach them. The four mounting screws on the large outside panel came out but every effort to dislodge it were unsuccessful. Any advice on how to get to the panel and check the wires? Would removing the port bulkhead in the aft berth give me access to the back of the panel?
No, removing the bulkhead won't help much. T
he only thing holding the panel in should be the six mounting screws, which should be "sheet metal" types simply screwed into the surrounding fiberglass flange.
If they have nuts on the back, you may be able to use a pliers to turn the screw while pulling on the nut to tension the nut against the flange. If you have to access the panel from below, your best bet is the aft lazarette if you've got an older boat. With the propane tank out, there's plenty of room back there to climb down inside (if you're not too big!) and get an arm around the corner.
Hope this helps!
Mike
Yes you can get to the panel by removing the the aft cabin bulkhead. But you will turn into a pretzel trying to reach up to access the panel. It's worth a try, the panel has to come off to check the pickup screen per your other message.
If the screws are out of the panel, the only thing holding it in is sealant. Using a thin putty knife start working your way around the edge working the putty knife into the joint gradually expanding it. Make take several trips around the panel. You can lessen the chance of scratching the fiberglass by putting down a strip of masking tape first. The screws hold the panel in place, the sealant is to keep the inside of the boat dry. When you replace it, make sure you just use a sealant, not a sealant-adhesive. The nuts on the interior panel were probably used because the holes were stripped. You might want to just use larger screws to hold it in place.
bh : As Ken said, "If all of the screws are out the only thing holding the panel in is sealant". Lift up the aft hatch and reach around from the rear and push it out from the back.
If you decide on a whole new panel call Seaward. :wink:
bh
You really have to get behind the panel through the aft lazarrette. It's a bear, but do-able.
An earlier C34, #90, that I worked on, had sheet metal screws holding the main frame into the coaming. Made it easy to fix and replace.
Most of the older boats have nuts and bolts. Stupid design, but that's what we've got.
Either live with it, or change it. It's your boat now.
Gawd, I know this is an old thread, but....
I tried removing the engine panel. Screws came out fine - yada yada, yada. However, the engine cut off handle is preventing me from pulling it out. Any suggestions?
Lance - I think I just typically needed to remove the knob at the end to tip out the panel far enough?
Thanks Craig, I'll try that.
Perhaps Craig didn't mean removing it, but rather raising it up some for clearance. Has worked for me.
My knob would just unscrew, the base remained.
Lance,
When I did mine this weekend, I un-screwed the t-handle and the panel came right off. I used a very thin screw driver, the admiral would not let me use a spatula but the best advice I can offer is slow and easy to get the sealent to stretch and then you can cut it with a knife.
Seems about 5 of us did this project this weekend.
Ralph.
Lance : After you remove the clear acrylic face piece. You then remove the 6 screw holding the panel itself in the recess.
You need to hold on one or more of the outside instrument cases and tilt the top of the panel forward. As the top clears the indented recess you can easily maneuver it around the engine cut-off. There should be no need to remove the "T" handle of the engine cutoff.
That works on my 1988.
Are the huts holding screws for the silver-colored face where the instruments are (not the plastic clear face plate) captive? I forgot, since it's been so long ago that I replaced our voltmeter - (1999?).
Guys : There should be screws that the factory put in, but a PO could have used nut & bolts !
Stu, et al,
Here is the setup on Ciao Bella. The clear plexi glass cover is held on by four small wood screws. The aluminum panel is held in by six #6 screws with nuts on the back. The fiberglass box is held in by six wood screws and a tube and half of sealent compound of some sort. I thing they were affraid it'd fall out. I removed the plexiglass cover no problem. I could not get to the nuts on the back and hold them and turn the screw heads by my self, my arms just aren't that long, I'm not a deck ape. So I removed the screws holding the fibergalss box in and carefully pryed the box out. Replaced the switch in about 5 minutes then reversed the process using silicone sealent to keep water intersuion out. The whole project, including the trip to WM for the sealent took maybe two hours, mostly because the admiral was on special liberty. If the admiral is there I can count on adding about two hours to every project.
Ralph
Ron, I did try your method of tilt and remove. However, the T-handle would not allow enough tilt. So, I'll try that method on Friday and see how that works. Trying to insure a good, clean connections on the starter button and ignition switch. Sometimes it starts fairly quickly while other times it just seems to barely turn over. Not a battery issue as my batteries, 2 banks with 3 on house and 1 on starter, stay charged at a good level even after a day and a half on the hook.
It is a production boat, but some things like the engine T handle are installed individually. I feel your pain Lance. To get my instrument panel out of the caulked in recess, the T handle comes off, and the shut off cable must be unscrewed from the panel and pushed into the lazerette. Not all the way, just a small nub of the shut off cable remains to pull it back in place. That is the only way I can get enough clearance to get the instrument panel out.
Thanks Ken.
Quote from: Lance Jones on August 03, 2011, 06:06:54 AM
Sometimes it starts fairly quickly while other times it just seems to barely turn over. Not a battery issue as my batteries, 2 banks with 3 on house and 1 on starter, stay charged at a good level even after a day and a half on the hook.
Have you checked the Critical Upgrades? Engine ground connections and the starter fuseholder come to mind.
Hey guys, I'm with Ron on this one, perhaps it won't work on all boats, but I've found that after the panel is loose, a slight tip of the top to inboard to free it up a bit and I can easily bring out the forward side and manoeuvre the whole thing around the T-Handle (or in my case the threaded shaft after my Herculean brother ripped it off :) Anyone know a good place for a T-Handle? (Just kidding, don't want to hijack this thread)
Just to add my voice to the choir... When we first pulled the panel last year, we also thought is was the t-handle binding, but careful inspection showed that it was the wiring on the back that were binding (Did you cut all of the cable ties holding the harness in place?). This is why we eventually added to the harness knowing it was just a matter of time before we were back there again. As for the slow starting- I echo Stu's sentiments, sounds like the starter fuse holder. The collective experience on 2ndWish is that the failure mode of the pushbutton switches is that they stick in the on position (not good, two if them did this).
T
If you need to hold the nuts, while turning the screws, you can use vise grip, needle nose pliers. Yes, it's awkward, but it gets the job done if you're by yourself. I emptied out the rear lazarette before I went in there. It was a tight fit, but I could get to the back of the pannel.
Most of you who get into that rear, or even port, lazarette must be midgets!
or contortionists.
It's not easy and not something I do for fun. Been there several times, replaced all fuel hoses and fuel tank earlier this year. And just ran wire for a NEMA2000 system last month.
Ralph
Ciao Bella
Lance : On the slow to regular starting (if the batteries are OK) I'll bet that it's a bad battery cable connection - positive or negative. Could be at the battery, or the starter solenoid, or at the engine ground.
The symptom of a bad or dirty fuse holder (to the starter solenoid) is that it works (connects) or it doesn't!
The symptom of a slow starter is that there is a connection, but not enough "juice"!! A thought
Just had the same issue. I started at the batteries then the 1&2 all switch them the starter and ground on engine and the fuse holder then up to engine electric panel in cockpit and cleaned and checked all connections. Was able to pull electric panel per Ron's description. I have the bolts and had to go down in the aft Laurette. Not sure which connection was the culprit as I forgot to start after each connection location cleaned however suspect it was a combo of the ground wire on engine was dirty and loose ground wire in electrical panel. Currently working on the dead high temp and oil alarm lights as they are burned out as well as figuring out why the alarm buzzers do not work. Spoke to Dennis at Seaward and Kent at Catalina for wiring diagram but have yet to find a match for the 86 and diagram upgrade years back. Looked on board and my manuals but could not find. Any help on diagram for an 86 would be great.
Thanks
Quote from: RV61 on August 17, 2011, 05:38:15 AM
Spoke to Dennis at Seaward and Kent at Catalina for wiring diagram but have yet to find a match for the 86 and diagram upgrade years back. Looked on board and my manuals but could not find. Any help on diagram for an 86 would be great.
Our C34 tech wiki has a wonderful array of information. Like the engine wiring harness article, which includes the wiring diagrams you are looking for. Look under "Engine."
Stu,
Thanks!!! . It is exactly what I have been looking for!!! I had looked there previousley but I guess sometimes we cannot see something right in front of us.
On my 86 I thought that we had both a Water temp indicator light and an Low-Oil indicator light. The drawing of the 87 shows a Hi temp light but does not label the other. With you being same vintage can you tell me what the other light was used to indicate? is it just a poer indicator that the key is on? Will trace back on my boat to try and figure out.
Thanks again.
This drawing just came in from Kent. It is the engine electrical control panel drawing for vintage catalinas with before and after wiring harnes up grade and going volt meter.
Rick : Years ago I spoke with Bristol Marine the makers of the engine instrument panels for the 1986 thru 1989, when they folded that contract went to Seaward.
What I was told by Dave Gardner (he worked for both) that the second light was for the starter engage. Apparently Catalina must have had a batch of starters that wouldn't disengage!
I'll guess that your poor connection/s that cause slow starter turn over are -- the main #4 black ground wire connected to the post side engine bell housing -- the red positive #4 wire connected to the starter solenoid -- the #4 red and black battery cable connections.
I'd recommend that you clean, re-crimp and solder those connections for the best electrical contact!
Ron,
thanks for the info on the lights and recomendations. Already fixed the slow sart issue cleaned all the cables last weekend you mentioned and problem gone. If comes back will recrimp and resolder.
Now just looking at the engine control lights and buzzers as the are not functioning and never have since I have owned the boat and want to finally fix as part of my electrical education. Do you know if the indicator lights on the control panel are readily available as would like to do this weekend? May rewire the second light for low oil indicator as not to concerened at this point with starter not disengaging.
Thanks again for the info.