Greeting from Costa Rica. We are new owners of a 1990,C34, hull # 1023, and excited to be joining such a large and active community. Our survey indicated that we should replace our batteries. We intend to use our C34, 2 or 3 times a year, for 3 to 4 weeks each time. The rest of the time the boat will be at a dock. The boat is pretty much factory standard. Any suggestions for the "type" of battery (conventional, gel, etc.)given our use pattern?
Steve
I'm sold on two banks of golf cart batteries. Total of 4 batteries. A designated 12 volt starter battery is desirable. There are a number of posting on this subject on this website. Try one of the search engines for much more detail.
Also recently acquired a C34 1989 #986
Am in the process of installing:
4 trojan T105 6 volts house batteries,
link 10 battery monitor
trucharge 20 amp charger with remote,
90amps alternator with balmar regulator
Boat is at dock and sail every weekend during summer with a couple of 2 week cruise on lake Champlain , NY
Also planned this spring is a dodger with full enclosure, cockpit cushions a Simrad auto pilot
Will also be replumbing the sink drain.
Thanks to this fabulous site , I get all the technical info I need.
Hi Paul,
Which alternator and regulator? Where did you get them?
Thanks,
Tony Benoit
Helen C
#903 '89
Stephen & Nancy
I recommend starting here:
http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=srch&s=329609511&findw=ewing (http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=srch&s=329609511&findw=ewing)
Kyle has asked a lot of great questions and wrote his first year experiences up that spurred C34 Electrical System questions. Then try a Find on electrical (see below).
As to gells or wet cells, it's the comparison that's written up in the West Marine Advisor that really says it all.
See: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorListView?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001 (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorListView?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001)
...and scroll down to Electrical.
It's not so much the type as it is the total house bank capacity. If you're close to the boat and/or use a solar charging source, then wet cells or golf carts are less expensive. If you can't get to the boat, gells have attraction.
It's a "your boat, your choice," since maintenance or the lack of requiring any is what you pay for in gells, and they take up more space than the four Trojans (or golf carts which can be purchased for much less at other sources - don't know what you have down there).
As you'll see in the answers on the previous posts about electrical systems there are many options, no "right" one even for how you choose to use your boat.
Concensus is do an energy budget, and go from there. So much depends on what and how you plan to recharge.
Also some good info on glow plugs and starting, related to electrical is:
http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=327600304 (http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=327600304)
Mike Vaccaro also does a great job of presenting information. Start here, last post and then try looking up his contributions.
http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&s=329609511&a=tpc&f=829605811&m=546600651&r=348605527#348605527 (http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&s=329609511&a=tpc&f=829605811&m=546600651&r=348605527#348605527)
A Find on C34 Electrical gets you to: http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=srch&s=329609511&findw=c34+electrical (http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=srch&s=329609511&findw=c34+electrical)
Lots of material there.
Let us know what you decide to do.
Best,
Stu
[This message was edited by Stu Jackson #224 1986 "Aquavite" on March 06, 2004 at 11:35 PM.]
Tony Benoit
here is a great reference, and I am going to go this way
http://www.catalina36.org/Article_alternator-battery.htm (http://www.catalina36.org/Article_alternator-battery.htm)
Paul
Rod's C36 article is very, very good. It's been cross referenced here before. The only addition I would make is that Ample Power makes the same kind of alternator as the stock Motorolas. This avoids having to "redo" the bracket, which Rod seemed to find a problem.
Actually, even if you use a Balmar alternator, all you have to do is file down inside of the bracket which should take less than a half an hour.
So, go with Rod's alternator choice, get an Ample with no bracket filing, or go Balmar with a little shaving. Choice of external regulation is up to you.
Stu
Stu,
would you by any chance have the part number for the Balmar.
do you think the Balmar is a better alternator and if so why?
Paul
Paul
If I recall the Balmar is the 912-75.
No, they're not "better" just different. The Balmar has the cooling fins on the front, which is what creates that minor interference with the bracket.
The Ample models look just like the OEM Motorolas. See www.jackrabbittmarine.com (http://www.jackrabbittmarine.com).
Stu
There's only one t in rabbit
The reference should be www.jackrabbitmarine.com (http://www.jackrabbitmarine.com)
After the home page opens, go to Products and you'll see pictures of the alternators. Dig as deep as you like.
Stu
My boat has two 6 volt in series and two 12's. I don't know why the sixes, it seems the 12's are better. My boat is an '86, were the sixes original? can I remove the pair of sixes for a 12? or two?
Batteries
C34 Electrical Systems
b delli
Here's one of the links that you can start with to understand the difference.
http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=499603804&r=767607834#767607834 (http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=499603804&r=767607834#767607834)
I believe it also is part of the reference material noted above.
There is no "best." Period. It depends on how you use your boat, and what kind fit in your boat. 2 6V batteries wired in series together makes a 12 V battery. You can mix and match as long as they come out 12V each.
Why not do a little more research on your question, and then we can help you out some more. I know it's a lot of reading, but it is (almost) all there, including references to published sources.
This is a "FIND" on "batteries:"
http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=srch&s=329609511&findw=batteries (http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=srch&s=329609511&findw=batteries)
The 6's were not original, and if your hull # is 98, none of your batteries are original, unless they're dead. :)
Any more questions, let us know.
Stu
Thanks Stu, It seems you reply on almost all topics. Thank you very much!!! I'm new to this web page and new to the c34, but it is obvious that you are an integral part of it's success. I will be doing alot of work on my '86 boat so I'll try and give back as much as possible. So far I have done the exhaust, tightened keel bolts, and rudder packing. My next project is the top rudder bushing. I'm going to try and save the emerg. tiller cap, but am ready to cut it if neccessary. I have the pair of bushings on order and won't start til the parts are on hand. I could sail as is because the play is only about a 1/4 inch. the boat sailed well last season as is. Anyway, thanks again and keep up the great work. Part of the reason I bought this boat was because of this website, and I'm very happy I did.. BD
BD
We share "experienced" '86 boats. Ron and I and a number of other "regulars" hang out on this board and share our information and experiences. As you'll learn, there are a few things you HAVE to do right, and most others are up to you with input and suggestions, as well as the stuff that's "already been written." Thanks for taking the time to do that, and keep the questions coming.
Also, use the Projects and check out the related links to Al Watson's Home Page. Al has since sold his boat to Dave Commando, but his writeups are very good help for you and others with "original" C34s.
I wrote the following a few years ago. It's not a full checklist by any means, and was done in jest, but it sure is a good start:
posted April 29, 2001
Wheel Thingy
Peter
Why bother?
You have so many other things to do, like:
dinghies and engine choices, diesel engine maintenance, sail trim, battery charging and/or inverter equipment, galley sink drains, interior and exterior lighting improvements, thru hull lubrication, roller furling fairleads, head anti-siphon loops, minimizing the size of the salon main table, inverter/charger choices, anchor rollers, anchor size, prop type and pitch, mattresses, cushion material & thickness, bleeding the diesel, boat theme, cutless bearing grief, packless stuffing box, burbing the engine raw and fresh water systems, leaks, anchor locker separation, battery capacity and type, oilingh everything, buying and using Lanocote, microwave size, hanging locker or shelves, sleep inside or out, emergency tiller, where to put the "all of the stuff," sleep aft or forward cabin, NDZ or poop overboard, stargaze or have fun, jib fairleads and cheek blocks, and the dreaded Autohelm 4000 or Navico choice."
Have fun :)
Stu
After long searches for my electric, electronics and other boat needs, found this supplier that has the best prices
http://www.brokenlegdave.com/ (http://www.brokenlegdave.com/)
Paul
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tony B 1989 #903 Helen C:
Hi Paul,
Which alternator and regulator? Where did you get them?
Thanks,
Tony Benoit
Helen C
#903 '89<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tony,
the alternator I will be installing is the BALMARmc612H selling for $250.00.
The alternator is a rebuild from Blue Circle. They are a little over $100.00 for a 95amps
Another member is helping me and has done the work already a few times. I beleive he is an electric engener.
Will be happy to share the info I am getting from him. It is kind of long so give me your email address and will forward the info to you or anybody else for that matter
Paul
ALTERNATORS
Paul
Even if it is long, why not just post it here? Saves you time sending it to multiple people, plus we all get to read it.
Stu
Stu, will forward all the info I am getting when I have it all so to minimize going back and forth
Paul
James E. Moe answered my request for info on upgrading my system on my new C34,1989
Thanks James
Catalina 34 DC Power System Upgrade
This long post has been deleted and the ENTIRE article by Jim can be found at: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-electrical-system-upgrade-2.html
Attached is the schematic for the upgrade
again I wish to thank James E. Moe for the time he took . Thank you very much
Paul
Paul - thanks for the excellant post. I am looking for insight from any of the electrical gurus. We own hull 86, a 1986 with the usual electrical loads (including refrigeration). Normal use is 1 or 2 week long cruises plus a number of 2-3 day weekend outings each season. When not in use Shadow is berthed and on shore power. Current setup is three 27s in the box, with the house bank of 2 wired thru a separate A-B switch under the dinette. A stock 55A alternator is regulated by an AutoMac. This means we reserve one 27 as the starting battery. Main switch must be in "both" to crank the engine. I intend to mount a dedicated starting battery aft of the engine and wire generally as shown by Paul. Two questions. The 27s are only 2 years old and in very good shape. Any reason I cannot wire in parallel to create a 300+ hour house bank? Plan to install 6 volts for the house bank when the 27s go, but hate to do so now when they work fine. We have a two bank C Charger (Charles Electric). Can one output go to the house bank, and the other the starting battery to recharge when on shore power? I will be using an echo charge from the alternator lead.
:D Paul, that was one of the best, if not the best, write-up I have seen on the board. I actually understood all if it !! :eek: I think you should receive an award for this effort. Also, I hope the write-up and diagram will be in the Mainsheet. This is absolutely top quality info!!!
Gentlemen,
I would like to make one thing clear.I am not the author of this fabulous upgrade ''how to''. As I mentioned on top of my post , James e. Moe ;), electric engeener,also a member of our group, is the one who put this together after I asked for help in reconfiguring my electric set up in new boat.
I was , as you are , overwelmed by his response, time and effort that he put in to it and I am very gratefull. He even rewrote it after he found an error and redid all the schematic WOW
Seing what I had in my hands , and knowing that I was not the only one in this situation , I could not keep this valuable info all to myself.
Again, KUDOS to James Moe
Paul
Great schematic Jim, what software did you use to make it. I have a hand drawn one of my setup and would like to make a computer version.
C34 Electrical Systems
I noted Mike's post hasn't been answered yet, so here goes:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Ogline, #86, 1986, "Shadow":
Paul - hull 86, a 1986 Current setup is three 27s in the box, with the house bank of 2 wired thru a separate A-B switch under the dinette. A stock 55A alternator is regulated by an AutoMac. This means we reserve one 27 as the starting battery. Main switch must be in "both" to crank the engine. I intend to mount a dedicated starting battery aft of the engine and wire generally as shown by Paul. Two questions. The 27s are only 2 years old and in very good shape. Any reason I cannot wire in parallel to create a 300+ hour house bank? We have a two bank C Charger (Charles Electric). Can one output go to the house bank, and the other the starting battery to recharge when on shore power? I will be using an echo charge from the alternator lead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mike
1. Yes, that's a good idea. See: http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=654602911&r=964602911#964602911 (http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=654602911&r=964602911#964602911) which is Kyle Ewing's original post on his system ideas, and previously "recommended reading." Just wire your house batteries into one bank, and to your 1-2-B switch and your start battery to the other post of the switch. We had our AutoMac output originally to the middle post of the switch with an isolator which I ripped out immediately when I installed our combiner. The AutoMac output (alternator output) goes to the house bank via the switch (not wired directly, physically, but functionally the same).
2. I personally think it's not really necessary to move your starting battery. Why bother, it's hot back there. I know this disagrees with some other's ideas. I find the alternatives are: a) if it's working now with the existing wires, what's the problem and why move it? - as Ron says, just make sure the connections are very good - and; b) it's easier running heavier wiring than moving the battery.
3. Your Charles charger is KILLING your batteries. The $$ you spend moving your start battery would be better spent on buying s Statpower StrueCharge charger. SEE: "C34 Electrical Systems," and it's reference to the find on chargers, written quite a while ago. http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=929603044&r=929603044#929603044 (http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=929603044&r=929603044#929603044)
4. Good idea to use the echo charge from your alternator. We, too, have an AutoMac, and until it gives out and we need a larger alternator with external regulation (i.e., the alternator dies), we'll keep using the AutoMac as if it was our "manually controlled external "automatic" :) regulator!" Don't worry about a dual output shorepower charger AND the echo charge. When would you have both the alternator AND the shorepower charger on at the same time???? (Somebody did once, and wondered why his tach wasn't working, but that's another story...)
ALTERNATIVELY, AND PROBABLY BETTER though, Mike, why not employ the same logic with the shorepower and the echo charger as you do with the alternator? Just hook only one shorepower charger output to a positive distribution post to your HOUSE bank, and the echo charger keeps doing its things for ANY incoming charging source, i.e., charger, alternator, solar, etc. Much easier to wire and to understand. Also covered in earlier referenced posts. Just because the charger has two or more outputs doesn't mean you have to use them. Jim's wiring diagram shows an echo charger with dual outputs from the shorepower charger to each bank. You could just as well wire one output of the charger to the same house bank post as the alternator output and the echo charge, as shown, will "do" the starting bank. Follow the wires, you'll see what I mean.
Jim Moe's article and his wiring diagram are absolutely great. All I'm saying is that there are variations on the theme.
Your plan is a good idea, Mike. Any other questions, please let us know. You may want to start another post if you have any other questions.
Best regards,
Stu
Stu -
I like your idea of using the shorepower charger for the house bank only, and Echo Charge for the start battery.
Do you know if the Truecharge 20 will direct a full 20 amps through that single hook-up? I don't own one (yet) and wondered if the 20 amps is divided among the 3 battery outputs.
- Gary
From the TruCharge manual:
"Total current delivered to the batteries will be either 20 or 40 amperes maximum, depending on the model, divided among the batteries according to there state of discharge."
From the charging current perspective I would assume that having two banks connected directly or one bank connected directly and the other connected through an Echo charge would not make a significant difference. You still have to put that same amount of water into the bucket.
I am curious about what effect the Echo charger has on the charging profile of the TrueCharge. I wonder if the one banks or two bank approached is better, or if it doesn't make any difference. Any electrical engineers out there?
Te
It doesn't make any difference to the charger. It puts out what it can.
All the echo charger does is separate the charge.
Why bother having two shorepower outlets when only one will suffice?
Using the echo charger does all the work for you.
Stu
Ray,
I've started a new thread, go to:
http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=728104404&r=728104404#728104404 (http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=728104404&r=728104404#728104404)
Stu
2007 - old infopop links don't work
If anyone is interested, I stopped by at Blue Circle Auto Electric last week on my way up to the boat on Lake Superior. They are located in Grand View WI. A few years ago I commissioned them to make me up a 100 Amp alternator based on a Delco industrial engine unit which has a plug-in external regulator. I've had them on two Catalinas now for a few years without any problems and put them on a few other boats as well.
I arranged for an ordering reference: M-7102-HD for the unit. Price is $120.00 plus S&H which is their OEM-Distributor price. I had them use a 2.5 mm smaller fan which will clear the Universal adjustment bracket and it just fits in the space Catalina provided so it's plug and play. The Balmar or Xantrex regulators plug right in. Note that this is an industrial engine alternator so is not rated for use with a marine gasoline engine but is fine for a diesel.
Only difference I can determine in operation between this and a Balmar is that the output current is not quite as high at low engine RPM. I don't consider that to be a disadavantage since a diesel gums up piston rings big time at low loads and low RPM. Thus you should keep RPM up to 2300 - 2400 when charging anyway. Incidentally, the tach doesn't need recalibration since the Delco had same number of poles as the stock Motorola unit.
I should read these things before posting. Blue Circle's phone is 888 832-2423. Ask for Harv.
Just prchased the alternator and installed it yesterday, actually had it installed along my all of my electrical upgrades. Everything is just great except that I get a very high reading on the RPM , now it goes up to 4000 rpm , is there an ajustment possible on the tach itself ?? if not my electrician tell s me I will need to change the tach , Any comments??
Paul.
I experienced the same change in my perception of the engine's RPM's with the Blue Circle Alternator. I thought maybe a slightly smaller diameter pulley might be responsible, but haven't measured it yet. While it would be nice to have the tach read accurately, it's really not more that a quick reference point for setting the cruising speed for me. With the GPS, I've made a couple of runs compensated for the tidal current to figure out what "new" rpm is necessary to run the boat at about 5.5 knts. So that's how I'm going to deal with this problem. I've seen others write about some dip switch settings on the tach, but my guess those settings probably won't make small adjustments. I'm sure some specific advice will be forthcoming.
A major change in RPM would be an indication that the new alternator has a greater number of poles that the original one or the new pulley ratio's are vastly different. The tachometer on my boat #1407 was made by teleflex, http://www.tflx.com/ (http://www.tflx.com/). This may or may not be the same on your boat. The tachometer has either a rotary or dip switch used to set the number of poles and also a small "POT" that you can use for small adjustments.
I had asked Teleflex a similar question last year and they faxed me the following document. Hope it helps:
http://cyc.plugnpay.com/c34/teleflex.pdf (http://cyc.plugnpay.com/c34/teleflex.pdf)
Has anyone gotten an answer from teleflex regarding the new dip switch settings for the tach ??
Paul
Paul,
Jim Moe indicated that the Blue Circle Alternator had the same number of poles as the original, so I suspect that the problem is a slightly different pulley size and no dip switch changes should be required. I read the link provided by David Price. It shows a screw for fine tuning the RPM. This task is pretty low on my list of things to do, but maybe someday, I'll look at the engine manual and see how many RPM's the engine is governed at (top rpm setting or low RPM setting and turn the screw to get the corresponding reading when the engine is revved up, no load and at idle and find a compromise setting. The link suggests getting a manual tach to hook up to the motor to calibrate the electric one, but that may be hard to come by.
Ray
Tachometer Dip Switch Setting
Paul
This deserves a new thread, which I'll start.
Also try this for starters:
http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=419104705&r=947109705#947109705 (http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=419104705&r=947109705#947109705)
I'm going to look at the Tech Notes that Ron suggested and hope to get a more specific answer for you, but we both should check the Tech Notes.
Stu
This continues here:
http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=364105145&r=364105145#364105145 (http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=364105145&r=364105145#364105145)
Stu
I've done the battery upgrade, but you've already gotten good advice. My c34 is currently in a slip in Hualtuco, Mexico. I will return to it in November and then head to El Salvador, Costa Rica, and Panama. I'd like to make contact with you-could you send your e-mail address. Many thanks. brant@suwa.org
Contacted, Teleflex and got the instructions and calibrataed my tach, All works fine now.
Will post the dip switch settings this week
Paul
Jim Moe's complete article has been posted on the Projects page on the main website:
http://www.c34ia.org/projects/projects-electrical-system-upgrade-2.html
Please note that some of the links I pasted above are to the old infopop server. They DO NOT work anymore since we switched over, sorry about that.
You can get to most of them by doing a search on batteries, alternators, etc.