I changed the fuel filter a few weeks ago on my M35 with no issues. I think M35 is self bleeding but I bled anyway. Ran for 20 minutes at dock, no issue. Week later went sailing and motored a good amount with no issues. 1 week later as I was preparing to leave the dock, engine at idle and warming up, the fuel pump started making a very loud noise, not the usual clicking but a constant growling and within a minute the engine stopped. When trying to restart, no clicking just a constant growling when I engage the pump. Engine starts and dies soon thereafter.
I am assuming this is part failure and not air in the system but I had never heard that sound before. Fuel filter new, water separater perfect, no significant vibration. Is this what your diagnosis would be?
I plan to change out the pump on Friday, and thought I would ask if I there is anything else I should check?
Here is my setup
Thank you
Caveat: I am NOT a mechanic. One thing to check. There is a small cleanable filter inside most Facet pumps. Probably not your issue but... Another random thing, but again may not be your issue; have you checked to see if you have a screen on the pick-up tube in your fuel tank.? If there is, remove it.
Wack the side of the pump with a wrench. On my first trip, ten years ago, with my 1990 C30, my original pump failed. I thought I'd run out of fuel. Luckily, I'd already had purchased towing insurance. Anyway, after a lot of testing I just replaced it and never had a further problem. The "whack" would keep it running about five minutes.
Rich,
Fuel pumps are cheap, replace it.
Well, fuel pump replaced but did not resolve the problem. It seems like the pump is maybe trying to suck fuel but nothing coming in and that is why it is making that strange noise. However when cracking the secondary fuel filter I was getting diesel coming out so at least some fuel is getting to the filter.
If any other thoughts, I'll take them. Thank you.
Did you check for a screen on the fuel tank pick-up tube?
QuoteIf any other thoughts, I'll take them
Here's one you probably don't want to hear. Just because you just changed your filters does not mean they are not dirty again. If your fuel is dirty, they may need more changes.
Did you replace the old filters with a lower micron filter?
Jim
Rich,
Well obviously the next step is to find out where the restriction is, it's somewhere between the fuel tank and the pump. I'd start with the tank and work your way forward, it's likely the problem either dirty fuel or fouled pickup. Well at least now you've got a spare fuel pump.
Thanks, I will check the pickup this weekend. The filter change was identical to the last, and new fuel (due to brand new tank) was 2 seasons ago.
Appreciate your help.
Rich
Try bypassing the filter and pumping a couple of gallons of fuel into another container to check flow and contaminants.
Rich : From your Hull # /production year you could (originally had) have a screen in the end of the fuel pickup tube.
Easy to check - remove the Beckson port in the port side cockpit locker. This gives you access to the top of the fuel tank and the fuel pickup. Take the screws out of the pickup assembly and lift it up thur the Beckson hole and look at the end of the pickup hose. If you have a fine metal screen - remove it. Then replace thee pickup tube back in the tank.
A few thoughts
I will check, but I bought (gulp) and installed a new tank from Catalina Direct 2 seasons ago due to a tank leak. I cannot recall if the pickup is new with the new unit or I used the old pickup. I don't recall reusing the old one.
Rich : Usually a new tank does NOT come with a pickup tube assembly.
A thought
Update, the pickup tube looked fine, no screen, and I was able to blow through with no resistance. Fuel level checked manually and confirmed 3/4 ish full. I then took off the racor that I just replaced 2 weeks ago and it seemed overly flooded with fuel, not the usual amount that comes out when I change the filter. I couldn't unscrew the water separator bowl so I couldn't replace it yet but I will try that next. What are the chances that it is backing up at the secondary filter and not getting through to the engine, with fuel being pushed back to the primary? I'll try Kyle's advice and see if I can get a clean stream into another container at the secondary filter.
Also, no extension hose on my pickup. Do I need this?
QuoteAlso, no extension hose on my pickup. Do I need this?
Measure it. Should come to about 3/8 to 1/2 inch from bottom of the tank to the high point of the notch at the bottom of the pick up.
Jim
Quote from: rjabara on June 12, 2025, 06:54:54 PMWell, fuel pump replaced but did not resolve the problem.
If any other thoughts, I'll take them
Hence, what I have said on here way, way too many times.
Do NOT play Whack-a-Mole and start replacing parts Willy-nilly.
It can get frustrating, waste valuable maintenance/repair/sailing time, unnecessarily consume boat bucks, diverts good beer (or other alcohol) money, and can lead to sleepless nights asking the question, "Was that the root cause, or a coincidence" (it is a boat after all.)
troubleshoot - Troubleshoot - TROUBLESHOOT.
Then, start replacing parts willy-nilly.
Isolate and test (or bypass) a suspected bad part if possible.
QuoteI think M35 is self bleeding but I bled anyway.
I have opined many times that anyone with a Universal that doesn't have the knurled bleed knob (such as an M-25) should install it. And anyone who has the knob as OEM (such as an XP) should replumb the fuel flow (as I did) so that the knob
does not return the bled fuel to the tank.
This makes troubleshooting more straightforward and allows viewing the fuel flow/condition while bleeding. The OEM setup prevents that, which, for Kubota to have done that, was, using a technical term, plain stupid.
If one wants to retain the option of returning fuel to the tank, that can also be accomplished.
The good news is that I am back up and running. Thank you all for your input. The bad news is that I am not EXACTLY sure why, lol.
I started at the tank with the pickup, then to the Racor (changed to new), the pump (new), then to the secondary filter. When I pulled the hose and ran the pump, it dumped some debris in the container that I was using. I don't know how this got through the racor but there it was. I changed the secondary filter, reconnected everything, ran the pump for a bit to bleed and after a few tries, she started right up. Ran for 20 minutes at idle, at 2000, and in and out of gear. Sounded better than ever and started up faster than ever. Upon changing the secondary filter, I noticed that that bracket was completely broken (discussed at some length on this forum many times). In reading past forum entries, these brackets from Westebeke went from being free, to $22.00 to now $65 + shipping. That is some inflation.
Thanks again!
Rich
Be aware that even the "new, improved" Westerbeke bracket can fail with a crack at the gentle radius rather than the sharp bend.
Rich : With all that was said the junk was the stoppage!!
FYI the engine will run without the fuel pump because the fuel will gravity flow - fuel tank is higher than the engine!!
A thought
Ron, it seems that way. I am getting better at troubleshooting with all of your help, but clearly a long way to go.
I just couldn't get through my head how that junk could get through my (new)racor 10 and end up clogging the end of the hose to secondary filter.
Picking up on an old post of mine, I finally ordered and received the bracket as pictured by Ken above. I think it is the wrong bracket as my old one was not offset like this new one. I think I can still get it to work but I need to lengthen the fuel hose connecting the internal filter to the injector. Does anyone know the replacement spec of that hose and any issues I should be aware of when changing that out?
Also, how does the silencer open so that I can install the new air filter? I unscrewed the top but doesn't seem to want to open.
Thank you.
There were two different silencers used.
Pictures, pictures, pictures.
Here it is
rja : If my fuel pump bracket had a crack - I would have taken it to a local welder for repair!!
A thought
A question for Ken on the fuel return or not comment. Mine does funnel the overflow to the tank and I did not know there was an option. Does the excess fuel stay before the high pressure pump and is used as necessary? This is a mystery. How is the alternative an improvement? I don't mean this as criticism and just wish to understand.
Quote from: dfloeter on July 30, 2025, 08:24:29 AMA question for Ken on the fuel return or not comment. Mine does funnel the overflow to the tank and I did not know there was an option. Does the excess fuel stay before the high pressure pump and is used as necessary? This is a mystery. How is the alternative an improvement? I don't mean this as criticism and just wish to understand.
Dietrich
On the later engines, the barb on the bleed knob feeds a hose that runs to the Injector Banjos, and to the hose barb fitting that has the fuel return hose to the tank.
So the bled fuel "mingles with" the excess fuel that collects from the Injectors via the banjos and returns to the tank. The bled fuel doesn't remain before the injector pump because that would counteract against bleeding air out of the system if it remained in the supply to the pump.
I describe it here:
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/message/105848
The benefit
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/message/105848
is being to actually SEE the fuel condition and what's going when troubleshooting the system. We can't see any of that how Kubota instaoloed the fuel bleed knob on the D950 with bled fuel returned to the tank.
If one desires, a small brass inline valve could be added to allow either option.
(Ignore that the fuel hose is disconnected from my secondary filter housing) the bled fuel simply exits the barb on the bleed knob (into a plastic Solo cup.)
Thanks Ken for a very good diesel fuel system lesson and I think I get it now. The missing part for me was the disconnection of the bleeder tube as you have done and run it into a clean cup. Mystery solved.
Dietrich
In your quest for understanding let me be precise about how this evolved. I didn't disconnect a hose — there never was one.
The early M-25s had a hex-head bleed bolt like the D850 engine below. Open the bolt like 1/2 turn and diesel shoots out a hole in the side of the hex head. So long as you're quick, have rags down, and a cup ready it was ok. Mess up, and you get a messy engine. :cry4`
The knob w/ its hose barb simple replaced the hex bolt assembly. It's good that there was no hose because I would have left it as-is when adding the knob valve. AND never would have experienced (IMO) the joy when I see the bleed! :thumb:
Late-model M-25s switched to the knob.
Ron, yes I think welding an option but I felt better about replacing since in 2 pieces.
Does anyone have the air silencer pictured above? I cannot figure out how to open it in order to clean and replace the filter.
Thanks
Rich : Look at the bottom of your air cleaner and you should see a hose clamp attached to the bottom. Take a screwdriver and loosen the screw and it should lift right off. On the inside is a filter made of metal shavings.
I clean the shavings with lacquer thinner and then spray a thin coat of clean oil an the shavings. Reinstall and it should be good for a couple of years - as the engine compartment is a fairly clean environment!!
A few thoughts :thumb: