I have read most of the articles in tech wiki especially the plumbing modification article. His set up sounds exactly like the one that I have. He talked about a small board that had two white valves and the foot pump for the cooler drain. The first white valve is to shut down the kitchen sink the second is to shut down the head. My system has a lot of tee's and in a previous question someone told me the small square things in the lines were check valves. I am just starting replacing all my plumbing lines I plan on doing the same as the article and creating a manifold, for the cold water it will be galley sink, bathroom sink, water heater supply and I have a hose that goes all the way to my anchor locker to spray off the anchor or deck.I was thinking of adding a port to connect to valve stem to blow out the system when hauled out. In between the white valves mine has a glass bowl at one time it must have been a filter, I plan on replacing that filter with on you can purchase at lowes or menards. After the filter it goes to the electric pump. That brings me to my first question Do you have to manually turn on the electric pump everytime you want to turn on the water? I know in my camper it a tank that was pressurized and when it got low you turned on the pump to add pressure to the tank. How does the pump know when to turn on??? Am I missing something. In the head I have a shower pressure pump switch is this just another on/off switch to turn the electric pump on.
First off, your boat is 30+ years old and what is there now most likely has been "changed" by previous owners. For example, right or wrong, my 1990 had NONE of those things under the galley sink. I would suggest you start your quest for plumbing advice/info by posting some photos or a diagram of what you have now. It makes it much easier for folks to assist you.
QuoteDo you have to manually turn on the electric pump everytime you want to turn on the water?
How does the pump know when to turn on???
Same answer for both. The potable water pump is called a "demand pump" (has a built-in pressure switch in the pump head.) When the pressure drops, the switch (on a properly operating pump head) kicks the pump ON. When it gets to the upper limit the switch turns OFF.
On most (all?) marine potable water pumps there is a (screwdriver) adjustment for the OFF pressure.
On other systems (like a house well pump) the pressure switch is typically separate from the pump (the pump itself is not a "demand pump.")
[/quote]
Lots of these boats have been modified to different degrees over the years. Pictures help us to answer your questions. Ken answered your first question. The valve (gate or ball) for the water tank needs to be open to flood that pump. Otherwise when the breaker is switched on it runs and nothing happens except to damage your pump. Your camper probably has an accumulator in the water system to store pressure. My 1987 does not, and would guess yours doesn't either.
The switch in the head is for a different pump. It's for the shower sump pump located in the locker under the head sink. When on, it sucks water out of the shower pan and pumps it overboard through a thru hull also in the locker under the head sink.
When considering your "new" drinking water plumbing manifold/distribution system. IMO all you need are two valves to isolate each tank before feeding to your pump—so you can choose which tank to use/shut-off, and if needed, to close both tanks if you need to remove the pump for service. Thats it. Simple. Some have added expansion tanks so the pump doesn't have to run as often but, not necessary.
on the first picture is the set up like the plumbing modification article. Two white valves foot pump and the electrical pump. The second picture is what I was told is a check valve. The third picture is of some type of water filter which is obviously no good anymore.
Quote from: Jon W on June 24, 2024, 06:28:45 PMLots of these boats have been modified to different degrees over the years. Pictures help us to answer your questions. Ken answered your first question. The valve (gate or ball) for the water tank needs to be open to flood that pump. Otherwise when the breaker is switched on it runs and nothing happens except to damage your pump. Your camper probably has an accumulator in the water system to store pressure. My 1987 does not, and would guess yours doesn't either.
The switch in the head is for a different pump. It's for the shower sump pump located in the locker under the head sink. When on, it sucks water out of the shower pan and pumps it overboard through a thru hull also in the locker under the head sink.
Great information so I need to look for a separate pump under the sink in the head, that should be easy just follow the wires. Thank you
So when you turn a faucet on the pump will sense a need for pressure and turn on. For some reason I always thought you had to have a pressure tank.
I plan on running the water after the filter to the main pump, from the pump to the manifold, manifold to the shutoffs then to the sinks. does this sound right.
Dan,
I'm not exactly sure what your goal is here but before you start with modifications it would be a really good idea to understand how your current system works. Right now it doesn't sound like you do. There's no additional pump under the head sink, it's not necessary. The pump under the galley is a demand pump adequate to pressurize the entire system. When I installed a transom shower I simply tapped into that system and everything works fine.
From what I can see it looks like your system is pretty original other than some spray foam the PO added to improve the insulation in the refer. The first pic shows the two white shutoff valves for the fore and aft tanks, I usually run with the front open and the rear closed. The main demand pump (lower left) pressurizes the entire system, the foot pump (lower right) is only used the drain the refer. Pic #2 yeah, check valve. Pic #3 a large particulate filter for the fresh water system you can find an exact replacement at West Marine and other places and you don't have to replace the whole unit. Simply keep the black main body and replace the clear plastic and filter screen, it can be done in minutes.
I have found the original system to be well designed and up to the task which is why I've simply maintained it over the years without the need for modification.
Quote:
Jon W
The switch in the head is for a different pump. It's for the shower sump pump located in the locker under the head sink. When on, it sucks water out of the shower pan and pumps it overboard through a thru hull also in the locker under the head sink.
The reason I'm updating the plumbing is, First its 36 years old and its disgusting looking. I have know idea when it was used last or if its still works I hope it does.
I get so much valuable information from the people on this site. You are correct I don't know this system but off this one question I have learned this
. no pressure tank
. system has a on demand pressure pump.
. There should be another pump in the head to pump out the shower
. white valves are for the shut offs the front or aft tanks (I thought one went to the head)
. foam around the cooler is from PO (I would like to clean that up and install ridged foam)
. Keep the two valves to a center line connect to a new manifold which will then pressurize the rest
of my system.
This gives me the basics of the system and I should be able to plumb the whole thing with just this info alone.
One more question when a marina pulls your boat for the winter do they blow the lines and tanks? Or does everyone do that themselves? The water heater is for another post that connects to the engine some how still have to figure that one out yet.
To more easily get to the shower pump you can remove the "toilet paper cabinet" (circled in red).
The photo of stuff torn apart was during my install of my electric toilet. You don't need to go that far ;-)
Dan,
I apologize if you though my post was condescending it was not intended to be. I realize you're new to the boat and attempting to learn it and it's systems one thing I found very helpful when I was new to my boat was the owner's manual that came with the boat. It details all the systems of the boat along with diagrams of various systems like electrical and plumbing. Did your boat come with one? If not maybe the PO forgot to give it to you so maybe contact him to find out.
As far as the fresh water system goes mine looks just about exactly like yours and while I wouldn't call it beautiful I wouldn't call it disgusting either especially since it's hidden away and gets the job done. If you want to know if it works why not turn it on and find out? From what I can see the cracked clear plastic cover looks like the only problem and it might still work anyway although it's replacement would still be a good idea. Of course there could be problems you can't see like a dead pump or a bad valve etc. But there's only one way to find out. Good luck.
On my 1987 there is an additional pump/motor under the head sink. It's controlled by the rubber booted switch on the side of the head locker. Its only purpose is to drain the shower pan overboard.
That pump is pretty important too, if you use the shower. It doesn't take much water to overflow the shower pan and flood the cabin sole if that pump stops working.
melp : Not too sure I understand your question.??
The fresh water electric pump is ON or OFF!! When ON it automatically scenes the water pressure on both sides of the pump lines - so that when you open a faucet the pressure drops and the pump turns ON automatically so the water flows. Close the faucet the pressures equalize and the pump shuts itself OFF!!
Hope this helps?? :thumb:
Quote from: Jon W on June 25, 2024, 01:55:49 PMOn my 1987 there is an additional pump/motor under the head sink. It's controlled by the rubber booted switch on the side of the head locker. Its only purpose is to drain the shower pan overboard.
That booted switch did the back of the switch get mounted in the hanging locker next to the nav station?? When I tore out the rotten bulkhead I removed that switch at that time the wires didn't go anywhere. I think I asked a question on that switch but I don't think anyone knew what it was. So in the first picture Noah sent I have a switch by the sink like in his picture. Im pretty sure that say shower pressure switch, and the switch I removed was for the sump to drain the shower pan are these two totally separate pumps? I also don't have a round access under the shower seat. I never would have found that pump with out the picture
Quote from: scgunner on June 25, 2024, 12:41:20 PMDan,
I apologize if you though my post was condescending it was not intended to be. I realize you're new to the boat and attempting to learn it and it's systems one thing I found very helpful when I was new to my boat was the owner's manual that came with the boat. It details all the systems of the boat along with diagrams of various systems like electrical and plumbing. Did your boat come with one? If not maybe the PO forgot to give it to you so maybe contact him to find out.
As far as the fresh water system goes mine looks just about exactly like yours and while I wouldn't call it beautiful I wouldn't call it disgusting either especially since it's hidden away and gets the job done. If you want to know if it works why not turn it on and find out? From what I can see the cracked clear plastic cover looks like the only problem and it might still work anyway although it's replacement would still be a good idea. Of course there could be problems you can't see like a dead pump or a bad valve etc. But there's only one way to find out. Good luck.
absolutely not I read everyones post and try to learn something from every post. This post I have gained a lot of information that I will use. With all the water damage I had to tear apart the kitchen and bathroom sinks so it half apart that's why I can't try it and also why I am going to redo everything with pex and a manifold.
Quote from: Jon W on June 25, 2024, 01:55:49 PMOn my 1987 there is an additional pump/motor under the head sink. It's controlled by the rubber booted switch on the side of the head locker. Its only purpose is to drain the shower pan overboard.
is that switch mounted thru the hanging locker next to the head?
Look closely at my photo in post #10. Look to the left of the circled locker and directly below the sink. That is where to shower pump switch is. It is a white plastic panel with a water proof boot on the rocker switch. You can buy that switch at Catalina Direct.
The switch by the sink is for the shower sump pump. Mine is a toggle switch, yours probably is too. The round beckson plate was added by Noah. He also added the teak vented door by the toilet. I and others have done something similar. The more storage space the better.
I thought the switch on the panel you removed that wasn't connected to anything was for an electric toilet that was removed?
My last clarification on this:
The pump in my photo under the shower "bench" is the feed pump for my electric toilet. That is not the shower sump pump, which is further outboard under the countertop and toilet paper cabinet.
On another point: I changed out my shower sump pump to a Whale brand Gulper pump. Expensive, but works great and does not clog with shower debris.
and it's a lot quieter.
Guys : We still have the factory diaphragm shower pump which I have affectionally named "The Growler"!!
A thought
Quote from: Jon W on June 25, 2024, 01:55:49 PMOn my 1987 there is an additional pump/motor under the head sink. It's controlled by the rubber booted switch on the side of the head locker. Its only purpose is to drain the shower pan overboard.
I couldn't find a picture of the switch that is just below the bath sink I did find pictures of the switch that had a rubber boot on it. Was this the switch that will empty the shower pan?? The first picture is just before I tore out the bulkhead, second picture is the switch with out the boot and the third is the back the switch in the hanging locker
Quote from: melp64 on June 26, 2024, 02:13:59 PMI couldn't find a picture of the switch that is just below the bath sink I did find pictures of the switch that had a rubber boot on it. Was this the switch that will empty the shower pan?? The first picture is just before I tore out the bulkhead, second picture is the switch with out the boot and the third is the back the switch in the hanging locker
No. Please refer to Noah's pictures for the position of the shower sump switch and his and Jon's descriptions of where the pump is located, OEM.
Two photos. The shower sump pump switch is the small rectangle below the teak trim on the sink counter and to the right of the head locker door. Not as modern looking as Noah's, but it works.
melp : The cutout under the head (teak) seat and the cutout behind the head itself are mods made by POs
Many of us have made MANY mods to our boats!! A thought
picture for previous post
Melph64: that "button switch" could have been for anything. It is a previous owner's (PO) modification. Ignore it.