We're having issues with our shore power connection and I'm trying to find the 30amp breaker that should be between the plug and the AC bus bar. I've traced the connection from the Smartplug receptacle to the panel, and I don't a see a breaker anywhere in the line. The PO replaced the original shore power connection with the Smartplug, but I can't believe he bypassed/removed the breaker. Where would the original breaker be located?
The shore power should not run straight to the bus powering the circuits.
Ok, I'm not educated on what a PO did or your particular panel (post a pic?) but, generally, the shore power cable runs to the panel main breaker, which feeds the bus that feeds the various breakers/circuits/equipment (like water heater.)
That's "generally" - on my '84 panel for instance there's no bus; the 30a Main feeds to the Pos and Neutral terminal strips and individual fuses are wired to the Pos terminal strip.
Below is a photo of the AC bus bar. There are five wires to black, white and green. Four of each fall below the bus bar and are wrapped in electrical tape. There is no breaker on the panel or anywhere behind it. The 12AWG triplex wire coming off the back of the Smartplug runs straight into the roof of the cabinet in the head and from there to the bus bar. Where would the breaker have been located originally? A picture of one either on the panel, behind it, or mounted somewhere else would be helpful.
EDIT
What is the brown conductor for on the terminal strip?
Brown is not a color that should be used on her AC system.
For background what issue are you having with the shore power system?
Ok technically speaking, that is a terminal strip (do not always believe what an Owner's Manual says or CTY's terminology.)
Which black/white wires are from the SmartPlug?
It would be helpful if you post a pic of the front and back of your distribution panel.
Tom - On a boat of your vintage, CTY didn't install a separate breaker (from the panel) closer to the shore power receptacle as specified in in current ABYC standards.
Craig
guys : It was in the 1988 production that the factory started to install a single throw, double pole 30 amp breaker with a reverse polarity light!!
A thought
Quote from: Craig IllmanCTY didn't install a separate breaker (from the panel) closer to the shore power receptacle as specified in current ABYC standards.
Quote from: Ron Hillguys : It was in the 1988 production that the factory started to install a single throw, double pole 30 amp breaker with a reverse polarity light!!\
Craig/Ron,
Am I mistaken that this is an early Mk-I vintage panel like **should** be on Tom's 87?
(https://c34.org/bbs/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=1956;image)
Isn't (like my 1984 C30 panel) the "AC Master" a 2-pole, single-throw, 30-amp breaker?
Tom, The shore power hot and neutral supply should feed to it first in line. THEN, jumper over to the HOT and NEUTRAL halves of the AC terminal strip.
Here is the replacement (it can be found for le$$$ elsewhere):
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-38/electrical/breakers-switches/circuit-breaker-double-pole-30-amp-ac-master/ (https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-38/electrical/breakers-switches/circuit-breaker-double-pole-30-amp-ac-master/)
(https://www.catalinadirect.com/images/products/1746/Z2618_SL01A_md.jpg)
I have actually Mod'ed my panel and replaced it with a Blue Sea double-handle, toggled main breaker (which fits in the same space on mine but had to move the Service and RP lights location.)
Thanks for all input and suggestions, and especially the one about taking photos of the front and back of the panel. What I assumed was simply the ON/OFF switch for the AC power is actually a single pole, 30 amp circuit breaker. And the push-on/push-off switch for the water heater is a 20 amp breaker. Pictures of the front and back of the panel are below.
KWKloeber- the issue with the shore power is that the GFI trips on the outlet at the light pole trips every time we plug in the boat. We ran a couple of small fans for several hours off the outlets on the light pole, so I know they're okay. The pigtail we're using has a blue LED that lights up when power is present. Plugging in the Smartcord doesn't trip the GFI, and the blue LED remains on, so I assume the cord is good. There is nothing plugged in to any of the outlets on the boat. When I test for continuity between black/green, white/green, and black/white on the terminal strip, there's no short. I tested the pins on the Smartplug receptacle and got a brief reading twice yesterday. And just that quickly it stopped, and I couldn't get another reading. I removed the receptacle and all three wires are well seated, and the screws are tight. I tested the pins on the receptacle today and got no reading. Needless to say, it's very frustrating. Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
Not to throw shade, but for safety, I would put a "protective cover" on the backside of your distribution panel on the AC side!
Tom
Here's a reason why it's key for owners to post pics when they have a problem -- the breaker on your panel is not like the one that I linked to and is
not a safe breaker.
It should be 2-pole, not single-pole, and therefore should be replaced with one of the type CD shows, or a double-handle-toggled breaker.
You didn't answer which white/black wires on the AC Terminal strip in your first picture are from the Smart Plug. So does the shore power feed run thru the 30-amp breaker or does it go to the term strip?
The reason as others say that a breaker was later added at the transom is that ABYC requires the Main Breaker to be within 10 feet of the boatside inlet.
Without parsing what work you explained that you did to find the ground fault, generally:
- Start with all connected (I presume that with the breaker off, there is no ground fault trip?)
- Systematically start disconnecting circuits to isolate which one is causing the trip.
- Then systematically isolate to locate what item ON THE tripped circuit is causing the trip.
It could be a failed GFIC receptacle. That is common. So start there and disconnect the circuit for the port/starboard receptacles.
Or the water heater possibly leaking current, so try that circuit next.
Then the charger circuit.
As you work thru it, reconnect whatever you disconnected before progressing to the next circuit.
Noah- no shade taken. I appreciate your suggestion. What kind of protective cover are you talking about? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking something like an .060 piece of Lexan mounted on standoffs over the back of the AC side.
KW:
1) Thanks, I've read about this in Don Casey's Sailboat Maintenance Manual and have ordered one from CD. The challenge will be fitting it into the panel. I'll also have to re-route the white wire from the terminal strip to the double pole breaker and back.
2) I haven't identified which white/black wires on the terminal strip come from the SmartPlug but plan to. The 30 amp breaker switch will turn the AC power on and off in the boat, so I assume the shore power feed runs to the breaker first- but will verify.
3) Just to clarify, it's the GFCI on the light pole in the parking lot that trips when I plug the cord into the boat- regardless of whether the 30 amp breaker on the boat is on or off.
4) Thanks for the suggestions for tracing the short. I've done this many, many times in another hobby, but primarily with 12V DC and 14V AC systems. I was hoping I was just missing something simple and wouldn't have to go this route on the panel. But this is the last system on the boat that I haven't thoroughly documented, so I guess the message is it's time.
For a cover, you can go with something as simple as a Tupperware type container or glue ip something out o plexiglass or even wood. Anything to protect you from shocks or it accidentally shorting out.
My panel is not OEM but for illustration purposes to show how "today's" modern panels have the AC portion covered.
Quote from: Tom Patterson on May 17, 2024, 05:34:23 PMThe challenge will be fitting it into the panel.
They way I viewed it, the CD breaker would need to be mounted upside down because there is no space below the existing hole. (without rearranging the AC side of the panel)
Mine has a bit different layout but same issue -- I preferred to drill a second hole above the existing one and mount a standard two-handle-toggled breaker.
Quotethe GFCI on the light pole in the parking lot that trips when I plug the cord into the boat- regardless of whether the 30 amp breaker on the boat is on or off.
So, could it be that the breaker is "leaking?" even in the off position (maybe thru the reverse polarity light)?
IIWMB, I'd
- completely disconnect the triplex shore cable at the panel to help isolate what segment the fault is in.
- Depending on the "answer" disconnect it at the boatside inlet. Maybe the smart plug is "leaking?"
Is it an old type (with the thermal breaker in the inlet?) Those are not ABYC "legal" and have been replaced with a newer non-thermal-fused version.
Quotehoping I was just missing something simple and wouldn't have to go this route on the panel.
Ha, that's a riot. Thank you. I needed that chuckle. :rolling :rolling :rolling
But no joy, you can't get away with that one. We all know that
- On a boat. ANY boat. There's NOTHING simple when troubleshooting.
- Before fixing or replacing ANYTHING, two other things will need to be done first.