No issues with smooth shift to neutral or forward (lever is pulling the cable) but it takes a hard pull to get it into reverse. I'm doing this with the engine off. I can shift thru the gears easily from the tranny, even with the linkage attached.
What is your question? I am confused. Is the problem only shifting into reverse from pedestal shifter? Or from down at tranny moving lever arm on tranny? And, what if any issues shifting while engine is running?
It shifts smoothly at the tranny, even with there shifter cable attached. Very hard shift from neutral to reverse or reverse to neutral at the pedestal. The question is what might cause this issue if it isn't in the tranny itself? I took the top off the pedestal to observe the shifting motion. Is it possible there is problem in the shifting arm that travels down the binnacle? Where do I start? BTW it shifts hard with the engine running aLso.
I would check the bushings at the binacle where the lever rod goes through the housing. If it is smooth except when pulling the shift lever at the binacle, the bushing might have excessive wear and causing it to bind against something inside when you pull the lever. Mine were VERY sloppy.
Cable? Try working WD40 into the cable.
Jim
The actual cable may have a small radius bend in it along the path to the transmission. I had a similar problem with the engine shut down cable. Turned out as it passed the rudder tube it had a tight radius bend in it for no reason. Wouldn't shift the engine lever all the way even though the handle was all the way down in the cockpit. Couldn't start the diesel. Made a bigger bend and engine started. Sounds weird, but tight bends cause resistance. Worth following the cable path.
Only hard shifting when using the cable? Sounds like you need to check the cable itself. On a previous boat with a Yanmar the shifter cable housing had worn at a radius and it was hard to work.
I installed a new cable that made all the difference.
Checking that lever bushing on the shifter itself is also a very good suggestion.
Well I guess we now know why the PO broke the plastic shift lever. Replacing that short broken plastic lever with the longer S/S lever will make shifting easier by itself but you should still check and lube the cable.
The shift lever is short in order to clear the stainless structure the nav equipment and cocktail table bolt to as best I can tell. Shen the shifter is in forward there isn't enough room so I guess the PO purchased this shorty.
Porch : I took my SS transmission shifter and bent it on a hydraulic press. You need to be careful though because a casting will only bend so far!! Throttle was OK.
Also look at the transmission shifter arm and make sure that the cable is attached in the BOTTOM hole!! Usually if the cable is in the top hole the SS shifter will definitely hit the pedestal guard!!
A few thoughts
Thanks, Ron. I didn't think to check the tranny shifter arm. I went down in the engine bay to feel the cable while my wife shifted from the helm. I could feel and hear a clunk when it went from F-N...N-R...R-N. The sound was coming from the direction of the pedestal.
Service bulletin attached.
QuoteThe shift cable and pedestal control must allow the transmission shift arm to
move from the neutral position into the forward or reverse engagement a MINIMUM
of 1.37 inches (35mm) when the outermost ball joint attachment hole is used on
the shift arm, or 1.18 inches (30mm) when the inner is used. Use of the inner
attachment hole is preferred (Ref. Illustration).
Failure to properly adjust the shift arm and cable to produce the MINIMUM
shift arm travel required for clutch engagement will result in clutch slippage
and eventual failure.
I've posted previously that my boat (and others I am aware of) did not have sufficient travel to shift reliably into forward because the shift arm was not adjusted to take into account the fact that the transmission is tilted to be parallel with the shaft. (I realize that this may be off-topic since OP is complaining about trouble shifting into reverse.) The previous owner of my boat had just rebuilt the transmission, and this is apparently what led to his transmission failure that required rebuilding. The clutch still slipped on the newly rebuilt transmission until I discovered this root cause.
Correcting the issue at the transmission lever may avoid the need for some of you to bend your nice cast stainless shift lever.
Breaking : The bottom line is that Edson screwed up in their design of the SS shifter. If they has just copied the "Rubber Ducky" design into SS they would have been OK!! The new SS design just had tooo much forward curve in it and it was a bit taller !!!
I saw the breaking problem written up way back in about 1989 / 90? in a Practical Sailor article. They recommended a new metal transmission shifter made by ???
A thought
Anybody have a nice how to fix the shift cable issue. I have also noticed that even on neutral the engine is still rotating the propeller.
Quote from: Ron Hill on August 06, 2023, 02:37:44 PM
Breaking : The bottom line is that Edson screwed up in their design of the SS shifter. If they has just copied the "Rubber Ducky" design into SS they would have been OK!! The new SS design just had tooo much forward curve in it and it was a bit taller !!!
In my opinion Edson did nothing wrong. It was an incorrect installation by the Catalina Factory. My fix for it is described here: https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9151.msg69984.html#msg69984
Breaking : There are about 1100 C34s with the M25 & M25XP engines with the Hurth HB 50 transmission. A far greater number than the C34 MK II that were made --.not to mention all of the O'Days and Ericksons & etc. etc. sail boats with the Edson steering and the same Universal engine/transmission!! Thousands +++
If you try to install the Edson SS shifter directly - the shifter WILL hit the pedestal guard when you shift into FWD (restricting the transmission) unless you get creative and do some Transmission cable adjustments !!! EDSON screwed up!!!!
Now maybe Catalina screwed up when they installed the M35 engine w/HB 100 EZ10 transmission?? I'm Not arguing that!!
A few thoughts
Ron,
I replaced my control levers after the original plastic lever broke off with the Edson S/S levers. I've got a full range shifting through F-N-R and have the standard pedestal setup that came with the boat. It's been working fine for 30+ years so at least in my case Edson didn't screw up.
Ron, you are correct! When I replaced my shift handle to the Edson SST Handle, it indeed hit the pedestal and would not allow the transmission to be shifted to forward. I solved this problem by adjusting the cable AT the transmission lever until the Edson SST Handle no longer hit the Pedestal and transmission was engaged in forward.
I also had a issue with replacing the Throttle handle with the Edson SST handle, it too hit the Pedestal Guard, elected then to just keep using the original red handle and keep the Edson as a spare.
Quote from: scgunner on August 12, 2023, 06:32:42 AM
Ron,
I replaced my control levers after the original plastic lever broke off with the Edson S/S levers. I've got a full range shifting through F-N-R and have the standard pedestal setup that came with the boat. It's been working fine for 30+ years so at least in my case Edson didn't screw up.
Me, too, since 1998.
Same here working fine with SS shifters on 1990. No issues. Maybe the MKII have pedestal issues?
robert0816,
It sounds like you need a cable adjustment if your prop is still turning you haven't gotten completely into neutral.
Quote from: Ron Hill on August 11, 2023, 04:49:25 PMIf you try to install the Edson SS shifter directly - the shifter WILL hit the pedestal guard when you shift into FWD (restricting the transmission) unless you get creative and do some Transmission cable adjustments !!! EDSON screwed up!!!!
Having spent my entire career in product development, I can say that design changes like the bend in the SS shifter do not just happen without a lot of thought and some very good reasons. While I don't know what led them to this change from the shape of the prior plastic one, my guess would be that they were trying to rationalize their product line (a common catch phrase in the manufacturing business) with a single design that would be compatible with the multiple pedestal designs and sizes that they offer. Maybe there is a new "thingie" sticking out of one or both sides of their newer pedestal models that required bending both throttle and shift handles to avoid. (Pure speculation)
But like whack-a-mole, sometimes one fix causes something else to malfunction. So it's entirely possible that they failed to account for the fact that the change would require re-adjustment of the cables if someone was replacing the old plastic part with the new metal one, and/or would require downstream manufacturers like Catalina to adjust their cable mounts to compensate. Maybe they accounted for it internally, but failed to communicate it externally. Or maybe they communicated it, but boat builders and/or parts distributors failed to pass it on. I have no inside knowledge of this, except that I've seen things like this happen DOZENS of times in my job.
However, the fact that this issue was so easily fixed by me and others suggests that the design change was not a terribly serious mistake. I would continue to urge people who experience problems with the bent shift levers to exhaust all possible options to modify the shift cable mount at the transmission before resorting to bending a nicely polished SS shift lever. On my M35B all it took was drilling a new hole in the shift plate, and slightly enlarging another hole (as pictured in my link above).