I can't wait for the weekend, I was able to arrange to have the bottom of my boat media blasted. I think this could have been one the the largest jobs of refitting this boat. My question is a lot of the boats here in Michigan use VC17 for their bottom paint. How long will this last and if I was to start the loop and go towards salt water would I have to remove the VC17 to repaint it with bottom paint that would be good for salt water. After the media blast do I need to first clean everything then put a barrier coat paint before the bottom paint or the VC17??
Make sure you have a professional doing the blasting and "soda" is the most common, safest material for boat bottoms. Don't use sand. Yes, you should apply several coats of epoxy barrier coat prior to bottom paint. Can't speak to V17. Mine is strictly a saltwater boat. I have heard there was a manufacturing supply shortage of VC17 so if you decide on it, make sure you can even get it.
Quote from: melp64 on July 18, 2023, 05:52:48 PM
I can't wait for the weekend, I was able to arrange to have the bottom of my boat media blasted. I think this could have been one the the largest jobs of refitting this boat. My question is a lot of the boats here in Michigan use VC17 for their bottom paint. How long will this last and if I was to start the loop and go towards salt water would I have to remove the VC17 to repaint it with bottom paint that would be good for salt water. After the media blast do I need to first clean everything then put a barrier coat paint before the bottom paint or the VC17??
I would avoid VC17. It wears off quickly and would need to be applied seasonally. It's very $$$, and you need 4-6 cans of the stuff. It's intended for fresh or cold salt water.
I use it as we haul out for winter and frankly I don't want to start over. But given the choice I'd go for something you can just power wash or scrub for cruising.
VC17 is really for racing from what I can tell. https://www.interlux.com/en/us/boat-paint/antifouling
Quote from: melp64 on July 18, 2023, 05:52:48 PMwas to start the loop and go towards salt water would I have to remove the VC17 to repaint it with bottom paint that would be good for salt water. After the media blast do I need to first clean everything then put a barrier coat paint before the bottom paint or the VC17??
VC17 is suitable for « cold » salt water (low fouling)
The C34 I bought last from Michigan (fresh water, fresh coat of V17) is now in salt water in eastern Canada and V17 is holding great and doing it's job.
Dan,
In Lake Michigan I've gone two seasons without repainting with no ill effects. Will you be returning to Michigan after your trip and how long and where will you be in salt water?
VC-17 isn't compatible with any other paints (see https://www.interlux.com/en/ca/support/boat-painting-tips/is-my-new-antifouling-compatible) so I'd select paint based on where the boat will spend most of its time.
Kyle
Quote from: Kyle Ewing on July 19, 2023, 08:58:04 AM
Dan,
In Lake Michigan I've gone two seasons without repainting with no ill effects. Will you be returning to Michigan after your trip and how long and where will you be in salt water?
VC-17 isn't compatible with any other paints (see https://www.interlux.com/en/ca/support/boat-painting-tips/is-my-new-antifouling-compatible) so I'd select paint based on where the boat will spend most of its time.
Kyle
That's why I keep using it. If I had a chance to go with something else, without having to clean the hull to the gel coat I would. Your choice of course, however I don't find the benefits of VC17 to be worth having to redo it with what looks like copper but is priced like gold...
When I complete my refit I really want to do the loop but as I have been told a lot of people get down to the keys sometime just decide to go to the Bahamas and not return. I hear conflicting opinions some say that vc17 is strictly for freshwater. As I am reading now some say they use it in salt water.
I am thinking that with the possibility of going to salt water I am going to use a barrier coat primer and then a good bottom paint that will last a few seasons. As I have been looking at bottom paints some say they have to be repainted every season and some say will last for many seasons. I like the idea of many seasons.
A lot depends on what kind of water you are in. I got tired of seeing the significant loss of effectiveness of multi-season paints after the first year. When I upgraded to this boat I threw in the towel and went with an inexpensive single-season ablative. It's $90/gallon, and I need about 1-1/3 gallons per season. So I just put on one thin coat every year. I haul out every winter, so it's part of the springtime prep.
https://www.go2marine.com/international-paint-proguard-ablative-antifouling-paint-gallon-blue-black-red
I used to sand the whole bottom diligently every year, but the last couple years I just do a hard scrub along the waterline to get rid of any algae stain, let it dry, and put on the paint. (It helps to have a good power-wash at haulout.) It's a half-day of work. I see no signs of paint failure anywhere on the bottom.
Quote from: melp64 on July 19, 2023, 04:58:11 PM
When I complete my refit I really want to do the loop but as I have been told a lot of people get down to the keys sometime just decide to go to the Bahamas and not return. I hear conflicting opinions some say that vc17 is strictly for freshwater. As I am reading now some say they use it in salt water.
I am thinking that with the possibility of going to salt water I am going to use a barrier coat primer and then a good bottom paint that will last a few seasons. As I have been looking at bottom paints some say they have to be repainted every season and some say will last for many seasons. I like the idea of many seasons.
I moved my boat from Lake Ontario where I always used VC17 to Deale MD on the Chesapeake. Applied a fresh coat of VC17 before the move as I liked it. After 6 months in brackish Chesapeake waters the entire hull was coated with a moss like coating, boat had to be pulled out and bottom cleaned. I then applied several coats of Micron CS ablative paint VC17 will never work for you in warm salt water it didn't even work in brackish water. Since moving the boat to the Florida's Gulf Coast I have used the Seahawk BIOCOP ablative which is very expensive but lasts longer than the Micron CS paint.
Dan : What I did and suggest you do the same.
After blasting I had the yard rollered on 2 barrier coats of 'Bar rust" brand epoxy. Then I had a different color of a hard bottom paint put over the barrier coat. Then I used a different color again of ablative paint for the final bottom paint.
The different colors are VERY important especially when using an ablative as your bottom paint. Then you know when it wears down to the hard bottom color - it's time to paint again or touch up!!
What I do in the spring is to wash the bottom with TSP (Like you clean you house paint with) only scrubbing LIGHTLY. I've found that new paint will stick to a CLEAN surface - so no sanding is necessary!! :thumb:
A few thoughts
Thanks Ron I didn't think of the different colors but I am going to put 2 coats of barrier coat and then 2 coats of bottom paint.
VC17 is a hard, smooth paint that works well in fresh water. Its primary benefit is that it slightly improves speed by reducing drag. I put it on Molly Rose after I started racing her on Lake Michigan. The change in paint helped take us from middle of the pack to consistently winning the club races. If you're not going to race and plan to try some saltwater sailing I would suggest another paint.
before the blasting
after blasting
this is what I was told is the catalina smile something that is common with catalina boats??????
Dan : Yes, the smile is common to most wing keel C34s - because at some time the majority of the hull weight was NOT put on the nose of the wing. You'll just have to gouge it out and the fair in some West System.
It looks like there was some previous blister repair done?? Recheck that repair!! After the coats of epoxy barrier after applied I'd still go with a single coat of hard bottom and then ablative over that final coat. Remember to change colors so you know when to repaint and or just touch up worn spots!!.
A few thoughts
Quote from: karista on July 20, 2023, 07:21:25 AM
....bottom cleaned. I then applied several coats of Micron CS ablative paint
@karista
I'm interested in the process you used. You say "cleaned" then CS over the VC. Are you saying it was blasted?
My 30 was the Commodore's at Youngstown YC and after I moved it to L Erie I took his ablative down to the hull (which it turns out much of the gelcoat had been ground (I ass/u/me many blisters repaired?)
I faired spots needing it, sprayed 6 coats of VC Tar (popular in the '90s) -- then VC17. After moving off Lake Erie I'd like to go to something different but have always heard that more is needed than just "cleaning" the VC-17. What was the barrier you covered over with the CS?
@melp64
If I was still on Lake Erie I would not want to change from my VC17. Being on the hard annually, it is was a snap to clean the bottom, recoat, and it's dry in 15 minutes. I looked at it like normal spring duties.
I used to put multiple coats on the wear surfaces like the bow, and leading edges of the keel and rudder.
For warm water / saltwater locations, or expecting to move there at some point, I'd never use it.
Quote from: KWKloeber on July 21, 2023, 07:17:06 PM
Quote from: karista on July 20, 2023, 07:21:25 AM
....bottom cleaned. I then applied several coats of Micron CS ablative paint
@karista
I'm interested in the process you used. You say "cleaned" then CS over the VC. Are you saying it was blasted?
My 30 was the Commodore's at Youngstown YC and after I moved it to L Erie I took his ablative down to the hull (which it turns out much of the gelcoat had been ground (I ass/u/me many blisters repaired?)
I faired spots needing it, sprayed 6 coats of VC Tar (popular in the '90s) -- then VC17. After moving off Lake Erie I'd like to go to something different but have always heard that more is needed than just "cleaning" the VC-17. What was the barrier you covered over with the CS?
@melp64
If I was still on Lake Erie I would not want to change from my VC17. Being on the hard annually, it is was a snap to clean the bottom, recoat, and it's dry in 15 minutes. I looked at it like normal spring duties.
I used to put multiple coats on the wear surfaces like the bow, and leading edges of the keel and rudder.
For warm water / saltwater locations, or expecting to move there at some point, I'd never use it.
Ken, the boat originally had 3 coats VC Tar Barrier Coat on the hull and then 2 coats of VC17 were applied yearly while on Lake Ontario (Rochester NY).
After moving it to Deale MD on the upper Chesapeake the VC17 simply did not work and a thick Moss like growth covered the entire hull. The yard had a difficult time removing it, but using scrappers and pressure washer they finally got the hull clean, afterwards I simply used a palm sander and removed the VC17 which was not difficult but left the VC Tar barrier coat, then applied the Micron CSC ablative paint which held up just fine for many years, in retrospect since moving the boat to the hot salt waters of the gulf I wished that I had used the hard Trinidad paint instead of the ablative as we use divers monthly to clean the bottom and if not careful the divers can easily remove more of the ablative paint then needed. I found out that the hard paint can not be applied on top of the ablative so this would require removing all the ablative first and that is very expensive. The cost here in St Petersburg, FL to have a yard simply do a bottom job applying 2 coats of paint is close to $4000.
Karista
Thx for that good info. I likely don't have much VC left and the remainder will be a snap to get off.
Oh, longing for the Good Old Days (two well-paid, energetic teens with a hose and stiff brushes took care of my ablative problem over a weekend in 1996-ish with negligible impact to the wallet, including the MacDonalds and pizza bills.)
Guys : Ken has said a "mouthfull". Having moved (a number of years ago) to an "over 55 community" I found there were NO teenagers to hire!!! Having had 3 sons - that all move away - it was a real shock.
It's alarming to realize that you know how to do a job, but at 90 finding that it's getting physically harder to Pretzel yourself down there to get it done!!
A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on July 23, 2023, 01:28:50 PM
Guys : Ken has said a "mouthfull". Having moved (a number of years ago) to an "over 55 community" I found there were NO teenagers to hire!!! Having had 3 sons - that all move away - it was a real shock.
It's alarming to realize that you know how to do a job, but at 90 finding that it's getting physically harder to Pretzel yourself down there to get it done!!
A thought
90!!! I'm finding it hard to do boat yoga at 60. I elected to have a professional wet sand blast the hull, He took off the bottom paint just to the barrier coat. Some of the areas on the hull were 1/4 thick. I can varnish, rebuild cabinets, clean, even paint but the money I spent to have the bottom blasted was worth every penny and then some. I spent the weekend and did a final sand on the entire hull getting it ready for barrier coat. I just order total boat 2part epoxy fairing compound to fix small areas that need it. The guy at the yard that does all their fiberglass when he saw the bottom said other than the Catalina smile the bottom is excellent shape. Next weekend I'll do the fairing and I'm ordering total boat barrier coat.
Quote from: Ron Hill on July 23, 2023, 01:28:50 PM
Guys : Ken has said a "mouthfull". Having moved (a number of years ago) to an "over 55 community" I found there were NO teenagers to hire!!! Having had 3 sons - that all move away - it was a real shock.
It's alarming to realize that you know how to do a job, but at 90 finding that it's getting physically harder to Pretzel yourself down there to get it done!!
A thought
Ron
The malady is NOT limited to or unique to "over 55" communities. I've tried unsuccessfully to hire snowflakes FOR ANYTHING and there's plenty of them around here.
Karista
I had asked about the compatibility of other (non vc-17) paint over my VC-Tar.
Now I'm perplexed!
Ken,
Many thanks for your email and support of our coatings. Unfortunately however it is best and recommended to completely strip the entire bottom (both barrier and antifouling) back down to the gelcoat.
The removal will help to ensure you have full compatibility of the newly applied product scheme (InterProtect barrier coat along with the desired antifouling).
Hope this helps and best of luck with the work!
I'm hoping that they're just trying to sell more barrier coat.
A lot of work was done this weekend I was able to sand the entire bottom, I gouged out the loose stuff around the smile, then I faired it out with epoxy which turned out fantastic I also faired anything I could. I am going to purchase barrier coat paint this week 1 gallon of barrier coat paint covers about 450 sq feet. Will 1 gallon be enough to cover the bottom?
IMO, 1 gal. is not enough paint. You need two coats minimum of barrier coat. I know it is expensive. I recommend you buy one can gallon and a couple of extra quart kits. Then return what you don't use.