Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: Rees on March 03, 2023, 03:21:08 PM

Title: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Rees on March 03, 2023, 03:21:08 PM
My cutlass bearing needed to be replaced.  While a bearing puller was attached a hairline crack was discovered in the strut (see photo). The job was aborted without replacement of the bearing.  I was told that when this strut fails that is the end of my boat as there are no replacements, that is unless I can find one in a scrap yard. I'm told that welding doesn't work for bronze parts such as this.  Has anyone out there dealt with this problem and come up with a workable solution? 

I have contacted Catalina Parts. I was told that many records were lost in a tornado a few years ago. This included the ones for my strut :?. While this sounds like a particularly sad story in itself, this also means I don't even have records to tell me to which specific boats used this particular strut.  I am imagining that the strut is year specific due to changing hull designs, especially after my boat was built in 1989.  Any input would be appreciated.

Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Jon W on March 03, 2023, 03:42:25 PM
Catalina Direct sells a prop strut part number Z2228. Expensive, but worth checking if it will work on your boat.
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Jim Hardesty on March 03, 2023, 03:53:32 PM
I did a quick search here, this may help.  There's a lot more in the search that I didn't read

https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,10204.msg78748.html#msg78748

Jim
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Noah on March 03, 2023, 07:22:32 PM
Your boatyard gave you some bad advice. I would switch yard or boatworkers. I got one for my 1990 boat a few years ago from Catalina Direct but I believe it is/was made by Buck Algonquin.
https://www.propellerdepot.com/struts

Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Bill Shreeves on March 03, 2023, 07:32:16 PM
i would imagine that, if repair was something that HAD to be considered, I'd guess that a prop shop might be able to knowing they're capable of repairing cracked bronze props. if there was substantial electrolysis, that would reduce the possibility of repair.  Personally, repair would be my last choice.

BTW, ditto on the boat yard advice...
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Jim Hardesty on March 04, 2023, 06:47:04 AM
Rees,
After looking at your photo again, if it were me, I would investigate that crack some more before doing a lengthy and costly repair.  Especially if the crack doesn't show on the other side of the strut.  Unless you, or the yard, hit something the suspected crack has probably been there for quite a while.  Possibly from the factory.  It may only be a surface imperfection that looks like a crack.  I would start with filing, sanding and polishing the area around the suspected crack.  Get it smooth and shinney.  Then use some dye and magnifying glass to see if it is indeed a crack or only looks like one. 
Another choice may be to braze the crack.  Would talk to a few welding shops that specialize in repairs.  They may be able to do in place.  Still if you have to remove the strut new would be better. 
FWIW. I agree that the yard didn't give you the best advice.  Possibly they know that the repair is above their skill level but don't want to pass work to someone else.
Bill's advice talking to a prop shop is a good idea.  People hit things and damage to prop,strut and shaft are common. 
Jim
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Noah on March 04, 2023, 09:15:17 AM
I second the exploratory grinding of the crack. I replaced my strut too hastily, thinking it was a victim of galvanic corrosion, because it appeared very pink. Turns out the corrosion was only "surface deep". How do I know? I cut it in half when removing it and found discovered it was bright solid metal! Unfortunately, it was too late. If I had done more than a surface grind on it first, I probably would not have needed to replace it. An expensive error on my part.
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: scgunner on March 05, 2023, 10:21:20 AM
Rees,

The yard aborted the job but did they get the old bearing out so you can check if the crack is full thickness? I agree with the others, You got bad advice and you need to bring in a specialist. Sounds like your yard guys are in over their heads.

Noah,

I've only got one word for you----OUCH!
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Noah on March 05, 2023, 11:22:03 AM
Yeah, expensive lesson learned. But I am over the pain now. And I still love my boat! In the middle of my annual varnish touchup now.  8)
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Ron Hill on March 06, 2023, 02:02:52 PM
rees : Noah has a great point .  Before you do anything see if you can determine the depth of the crack.  If it's surface - braze it over and watch it (is what I'd do!!)!!.

A thought
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Rees on March 25, 2023, 08:28:26 AM

Quote from: scgunner on March 05, 2023, 10:21:20 AM
Rees,

The yard aborted the job but did they get the old bearing out so you can check if the crack is full thickness? I agree with the others, You got bad advice and you need to bring in a specialist. Sounds like your yard guys are in over their heads.

Noah,

I've only got one word for you----OUCH!

The boatyard aborted replacing the cutlass bearing as the force they were applying became great enough that they became concerned they might aggravate the crack.
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Noah on March 25, 2023, 09:05:48 AM
Get rid of that "boatyard". The cutlass bearing should be pressed out with a proper tool, not hammered on—which could not only damage your strut but also your transmission. Strutpro makes a tool and there is also a good "home-made" version of the tool that many c34.org members have borrowed/shared/shipped among themselves to use. Not sure who had/has last but do a search on our website.
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Rees on March 25, 2023, 09:40:23 AM
Thank all of you for your ideas on my cracked prop strut.  I would like to get this fixed as I don't want to be cruising around in a boat that might be like a time bomb waiting to breakdown.  However, I don't think that this requires immediate attention(??).  So while I am enjoying my new bottom paint and nicer weather coming, I will do some investigating:p; talk to the prop shop, see if I can find someone else to replace the cutlass bearing knowing that the crack is there. I'll also check if CD does still have the strut available. 

Thanks again to all!  I will report back with any new information.  FYI. I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond to your suggestions.  I discovered that my notifications were not turned on...
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: KWKloeber on March 25, 2023, 05:17:32 PM
definitely clean up and investigate the crack.
What harm will it do -- if the strut is cracked thru then you have "done no harm."

"...copper based materials like brass and bronze, are typically brazed with copper phosphorus silver alloys"
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Rees on June 15, 2023, 03:52:58 PM
I wrote a long story here about the replacement of my strut but then I was forced to close the window down on my computer, while trying to load the a photo and lost the entire story. I'll be brief(er) now.  I took the advice given on this forum, asked experts and decided to replace my strut.  I could not find a boatyard within 50 miles to do the work so ended up in Port Townsend.  They originally estimated 15 hours to do the job. This turned into 35 hours after they chiseled through 4" of reinforced fiberglass to get the old strut out, found the new strut a fraction of an inch longer and with bolt holes that didn't match up had to realign the engine and drill new holes.  I now have a new prop strut.  Not only that but a bonus of an interesting piece of bronze yard art to show visitors!   
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: waughoo on June 15, 2023, 08:10:37 PM
Yowzah!  Glad you managed to get it fixed.  Those projects are always a GIANT unknown until they are finished. Thanks for posting the followup.
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: pbyrne on June 16, 2023, 06:23:19 AM
Quote from: Rees on June 15, 2023, 03:52:58 PM
I wrote a long story here about the replacement of my strut but then I was forced to close the window down on my computer, while trying to load the a photo and lost the entire story. I'll be brief(er) now.  I took the advice given on this forum, asked experts and decided to replace my strut.  I could not find a boatyard within 50 miles to do the work so ended up in Port Townsend.  They originally estimated 15 hours to do the job. This turned into 35 hours after they chiseled through 4" of reinforced fiberglass to get the old strut out, found the new strut a fraction of an inch longer and with bolt holes that didn't match up had to realign the engine and drill new holes.  I now have a new prop strut.  Not only that but a bonus of an interesting piece of bronze yard art to show visitors!   

That is an impressive amount of reinforcement!  I had no idea.
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Noah on June 16, 2023, 10:26:34 AM
Here is factory install info:
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Breakin Away on June 16, 2023, 01:04:41 PM
Those three pages seem to show an evolution in the methods.

First page (1980-1983) shows no nuts, but lots of internal laminate covering up an internal flange. I feel bad for those early C27 and C30 owners who have to cut a large hole in their hull to replace their struts.

The second page (1983-~2000?) shows an external flange with internal nuts covered up by laminate. I guess Gerry Douglas liked hiding the internal nuts, but you need to hack up the interior laminate to get to the nuts for removal of the strut.

The third page, dated in 2003, shows internal nuts but no internal laminate. I guess Kent Nelson liked the idea of being able to remove a damaged strut without hacking up the interior. The strut is still not easy to remove since the nuts are typically sealed with 3M 5200.

FWIW, my 2001 MkII's original strut was attached using the method shown on page 3 (no interior laminate). When the strut was damaged in 2019, the replacement was installed using the same method.
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Noah on June 16, 2023, 02:42:46 PM
My 1990 had/has exposed nuts too.
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Ron Hill on June 16, 2023, 02:45:23 PM
Guys : My 1988 has a single (self locking - split head) exposed nuts!!

A thought
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Ed Shankle on June 17, 2023, 05:35:29 AM
Rees, why is the nut and bolt extension on the outside instead of inside? Was that just temporary or will all bolts and nuts be oriented that way?
Regards,
Ed
Title: Re: How does one resolve a cracked strut when there are no replacements available?.
Post by: Noah on June 17, 2023, 11:32:41 AM
Ed- I am pretty sure that nut on the outside is for temporary mounting to line things up, etc.  The strut casting is made with square holes to take square shank bronze carriage bolts with nuts on inside of hull.