Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: kocyk25 on May 05, 2022, 05:08:11 AM

Title: Replacing keel studs
Post by: kocyk25 on May 05, 2022, 05:08:11 AM
Hello everyone.
I don't see any threads about replacing keel studs. Did anyone ever do that? Any information could help.
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: LogoFreak on May 05, 2022, 11:24:01 AM
They are not studs! They are J bolts cast into the keel during the keel manufacturing process. If you haven't bought the boat walk away or be prepared for a massive expense or a TON of work.

This is my personal experience...
https://jeunesse27.wordpress.com/projects/
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: Noah on May 05, 2022, 11:37:51 AM
Wow! What did you use to "fill" the voids/holes you cut in the sides of the keel?
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: LogoFreak on May 05, 2022, 12:14:12 PM
Thickened epoxy
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: waughoo on May 05, 2022, 12:43:17 PM
Damn!!! What a project!!  I didn't know what was coming and when I saw the pencil thin front bolt at the front of the keel I literally "whoah'd" out loud.  Dang man.  What made you decide to look into that?
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: kocyk25 on May 05, 2022, 12:59:50 PM
J bolts - that's what I was worried about. They told me that dropping the keel in my boatyard will cost me around $10K. Is drilling and taping a couple of extra holes thru the bilge to install extra studs a crazy idea?  Anyway, I will most likely do the same repair as LogoFreak - just need to find a more affordable boatyard. Thank you for the pictures!!
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: KWKloeber on May 05, 2022, 02:08:06 PM
CTY has a fix that's drilling and sistering the bolts with LONG lag bolts.
The drawing might be on the wiki, not sure.
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: KWKloeber on May 05, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
I removed and rebed my keel - didn't cost anything extra than the annual pull n storage, except a lot of my time (and normal materials.

Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: Ron Hill on May 05, 2022, 02:56:20 PM
kocy : Are all 6 of the threaded rods (keel bolts) in the same condition or is your picture of just one???

A thought
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: LogoFreak on May 05, 2022, 03:00:14 PM
Lag bolts are acceptable but in my opinion it's just a bandaid solution that in the long run will come to bite you, not to mention what it will do to the resale value.

However 10k to just drop the keel is insane! Where are you located?
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: Ron Hill on May 05, 2022, 04:40:45 PM
 Note that Gerry Douglas's drawing does NOT specify which Catalinas this drawing pertains to!?!  His other drawings always are noted C30/ C34/ C36 etc.  I mention that because the weight of the keels change drastically!!

A thought
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: Noah on May 05, 2022, 05:55:13 PM
A call to Catalina should solve that question? If that is a Catalina 34 "sanctioned" repair method, it should solve any resale concerns, too?
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: LogoFreak on May 06, 2022, 05:40:08 AM
I guess it depends on the buyer, I personally wouldn't buy a boat with sistered keel bolts, indicates a large problem solved with a bandaid. What's the root cause of the bolts falling? Is the issue addressed with sistering keel bolts?

Proper fix is to at the very least drop the keel and investigate, then decide if they need to be replaced or not.
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: LogoFreak on May 06, 2022, 06:00:11 AM
Quote from: waughoo on May 05, 2022, 12:43:17 PM
Damn!!! What a project!!  I didn't know what was coming and when I saw the pencil thin front bolt at the front of the keel I literally "whoah'd" out loud.  Dang man.  What made you decide to look into that?

Rust streaks running down the keel when the boat was on the hard. When I purchased the boat I knew there was going to be issues with the keel, it was my first "larger" sailboat and I was still learning about it all. I learned to walk away from a boat with keel problems  :clap :D
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: Jeff Kaplan on May 06, 2022, 10:52:27 AM
Prior to  my purchasing #219, I had a 1974 C27.  The keel bolts were in rough shape so I called Catalina and they suggested that I use the 1/2X10 lag bolts. I bought them, 4 I think, and then drilled the holes, not an easy task, but do able.  I coated the lags with 3M5200 and drove the bolts, down used wide washer, with an impact driver.  Not a really easy project, took some time, but it worked. I never worried about the keel after that. I used a 1/2" drill with long bit. Good luck. Jeff
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: Stu Jackson on May 06, 2022, 12:41:39 PM
From the 101 Topics:

Rebedding a Keel Stub 101  The Catalina Smile with Pictures

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0.html
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: KWKloeber on May 06, 2022, 02:50:08 PM
Quote from: Ron Hill on May 05, 2022, 04:40:45 PM
Note that Gerry Douglas's drawing does NOT specify which Catalinas this drawing pertains to!?!  His other drawings always are noted C30/ C34/ C36 etc.  I mention that because the weight of the keels change drastically!!

A thought

The fix would be to sister (at least) as many keel bolts as on the boat. Larger boat, more keel bolts!!
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: KWKloeber on May 08, 2022, 08:38:05 AM
I've read, and this is third hand -- haven't seen the original text, that GD has said the keel bolts aren't needed, the keel is held with the bedding and won't fall off.  If anyone has ever tried to dis-member anything affixed with the Catalina "mung" (like the base of the C30 muffler) they'd believe that statement!!!
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: LogoFreak on May 08, 2022, 07:43:24 PM
Quote from: KWKloeber on May 08, 2022, 08:38:05 AM
I've read, and this is third hand -- haven't seen the original text, that GD has said the keel bolts aren't needed, the keel is held with the bedding and won't fall off.  If anyone has ever tried to dis-member anything affixed with the Catalina "mung" (like the base of the C30 muffler) they'd believe that statement!!!

Right, that's why there's also a torque spec of 105lbs for the keel bolts  :shock:

Someone brought this up on the C30 forum in my thread on the keel project 11 years ago, I'm still wondering what that person was smoking... lol
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: waughoo on May 08, 2022, 08:20:42 PM
The "schmutz" might hold it until the water barrier is broken and starts to attack the bond.  Thus it will hold it as long as the keel never hits the water ;-)
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: KWKloeber on May 08, 2022, 08:25:58 PM
Quote from: LogoFreak on May 08, 2022, 07:43:24 PM
Quote from: KWKloeber on May 08, 2022, 08:38:05 AM
I've read, and this is third hand -- haven't seen the original text, that GD has said the keel bolts aren't needed, the keel is held with the bedding and won't fall off.  If anyone has ever tried to dis-member anything affixed with the Catalina "mung" (like the base of the C30 muffler) they'd believe that statement!!!

Right, that's why there's also a torque spec of 105lbs for the keel bolts  :shock:

Someone brought this up on the C30 forum in my thread on the keel project 11 years ago, I'm still wondering what that person was smoking... lol


Well, I can attest first hand to the keel not falling off the boat under its dead weight with all nuts removed, even when roughly 1/4 of the "mung" bedding (aft end) had turned to mush due to water attacking it. 
I had to physically cut thru the mung from trailing edge to leading edge of the keel.  <double shock>
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: LogoFreak on May 08, 2022, 09:07:13 PM
Umm, ok... you're actually serious about that statement  :shock:

You're telling me you'd feel just fine removing the nuts off the keel bolts and going for a sail in 6 foot seas? Really? What are you smoking lol
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: KWKloeber on May 08, 2022, 11:17:20 PM
I never said anything more or less than the actual words i typed and show up in print.
What are you smokin or what mushrooms have you eaten that you're experiencing those hallucinations?
Title: Re: Replacing keel studs
Post by: LogoFreak on May 09, 2022, 05:54:11 AM
QuoteWell, I can attest first hand to the keel not falling off the boat under its dead weight with all nuts removed, even when roughly 1/4 of the "mung" bedding

Maybe I'm reading into it too far but this line suggested to me that you believed what you read?