Instead of refinishing the teak handrails on the boat, and having to spend all the time taping and prepping, I thought there might be a better way. By installing a "T" nut on underside of the rail which locks the screw in place, you create an assembly where the screw won't turn or push up, thereby taking away the necessity of having someone backup the screw when reinstalling. I plugged the holes, sanded each plug flush, and varnished the rails while off the boat. Solo re-installation on the boat was a breeze, wrapped each protruding screw with butyl tape, slid in place, installed the nuts and washers, and tightened. No leaks! And if I ever have to remove the rails, no drilling and removal of the teak plugs, just remove the nuts/washers on the inside of the boat and lift off.
Kudos! Brilliant
Another option I had described previously is to epoxy it in, turning it into a permanent stud.
Grind or file one side of the bolt thread flat to deform it.
Either method - countersink the cabin top to form the vee pocket for butyl to get forced down into and be compressed tight around the bolt.
Pretty clever solution! Only thing I might add is a few drops of blue locktite on the captive T nut JUST to be sure the screw doesnt move on you.
Dwainideus,
That's a great idea, very creative. A better idea might be to replace the teak handrails with stainless steel, they never need to be removed or refinished.
Scgunner...
I have been thinking about this very solution muself. The only issue I have run into is the holes in the deck. Making a stainless rail with all the same standoffs as the wooden one ends up creating something that looks like prison bars. The alternative is a LOT of patching of fiberglass and gelcoat which seems like a lot of work for the trade.
Dwain : Nice Job!!
For those thing about doing what Dwain did - I'd use both epoxy around the bolt head,crush the threads and blue locktight on the inside thread!! "belt and suspenders" to make sure that bolts NEVER turns!!!
A thought
Quote from: waughoo on February 19, 2022, 09:38:02 AM
The alternative is a LOT of patching of fiberglass and gelcoat which seems like a lot of work for the trade.
"Screw" the gelcoat repair. I'd just blind them. A finish washer and oval head or low-profile carriage head bolt in every other hole on deck. No one will really notice them and from below there's nothing to reference that the nuts shouldn't be there. Or thru-bolt the s/s handrail on top of a thin stainless bar that hides the filled/unused holes? Underneath, use a finish washer/screw to cover each hole.
Some things just don't warrant the time/effort of going "all the way" vs. the alternative (going sailing)!
I thought about the every other, but they arent an even number of legs ( or whatever would allow for skipping every other intermediate). I do like the stainless platform idea though. Hummmmm....
Quote from: waughoo on February 19, 2022, 09:17:22 AM
Pretty clever solution! Only thing I might add is a few drops of blue locktite on the captive T nut JUST to be sure the screw doesnt move on you.
"T" nuts have spikes that embed/drive themself into the wood, don't think they would ever turn. You just have to recess the teak about 1/8" or so to get the nuts flush with the bottom of the rail.
Guys : What I did to mine after I took them off for refinishing was to cut a slot in bottom of the screw. Then when I put them back on I could start the nut on the inside and put a common screwdriver in the slot so I could tighten the nut and the screw couldn't turn!!
A thought
Quote from: Dwainideus on February 19, 2022, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: waughoo on February 19, 2022, 09:17:22 AM
Pretty clever solution! Only thing I might add is a few drops of blue locktite on the captive T nut JUST to be sure the screw doesnt move on you.
"T" nuts have spikes that embed/drive themself into the wood, don't think they would ever turn. You just have to recess the teak about 1/8" or so to get the nuts flush with the bottom of the rail.
Missing the point. The nut turning isn't the issue. Put an acorn nut below on the bolt and overtighten it - the bolt will back out upwards, out of the tee nut. After that happens the only way to try to retighten it is to double nut it (if there's enough length below) and tighten it back up ('er ...or down as the case may be.)
Quote
A better idea might be to replace the teak handrails with stainless steel, they never need to be removed or refinished.
OR PlasTeak - no maintenance, traditional look.
Quote from: KWKloeber on February 19, 2022, 12:26:21 PM
Quote
A better idea might be to replace the teak handrails with stainless steel, they never need to be removed or refinished.
OR PlasTeak - no maintenance, traditional look.
Or buy the rail covers from Catalina Direct and never finish again. Will look great when you sell her.
Stealing! Looks great!
Alex,
You raised some good questions about replacement stainless steel rails. I'll see if I can answer those for you. First number of rail supports and spacing, I used half the number of supports as the teak and you're right it comes out uneven. I spaced them evenly from the middle to the ends. The supports are close at the ends so it looks like it was designed that way for extra support at the ends. Filling the holes was a snap, West System with some color pigment. The color doesn't have to be exact because the fixes are hidden in the diamond deck and under the rail. What you wind up with is a cleaner updated look that's maintenance free that sheds water much better and has half the number of holes in your boat.
Another plus is rail covers, you don't need them! When I had teak rails I used covers and like the teak they were just one more thing that needed to be maintained plus they need to be replaced along with the rest of your boat covers and they're not cheap.
Hey, I get it some guys like the classic look of teak and even like or at least don't mind expending the time and effort to maintain the teak. I'm not one of those guys! I'm more of a set and forget it kind of guy. I've found the less time I spend on maintenance the more time I spend on the water.
For anyone who has replaced the teak handrails withe stainless, do you have photos, project info, sourcing info, .......?
Thanks,
Mike....
Scgunner,
I like the tinted west system idea!! One could over fill it and do a rough file job to match the diamond non skid to aid in hiding the repair.
Funny note about rail covers... my boat came with them despite the previous owner declining to regularly use them. When I found them aboard, I installed them as they looked better than the failing varnished rail. That said, they have not been off in over a year :-D. I have since been designing a stainless swap solution in the background in hopes that some day I can get that maintenance item off my list.
Alex,
I used my covers the same way, to hide the teak that needed refinishing. I had found with or without covers the teak really needed to be refinished about every six months if you really wanted it to look good. And even when it does look good what do you do, you hide it under covers. It seems like a bit of a vicious cycle.
FYI, my rail replacement went like this. When you remove the teak you've got 12 holes in the deck. I decided I only needed three supports between the ends, the spacing went like this, the back end of the rail fills the first hole then I skipped two holes, a S/S support fills the next, then skip two more, another support, skip two more holes, last support, then one, hole then the front end.
You'll wind up with three center supports along with the ends and seven holes to be filled. The final product looks pretty close to what came from the factory after Catalina stopped using teak.
Kevin do you have any pics showing the grabrail replacement (completed)?
Ya, it (IMO) seems comical of those (not only on here) who tout the excellent brightwork, and then how to preserve it is to cover it up with canvas.
Or is the concept to remove the various canvas pieces and show off the rails, and boards, and whatnot that are covered while at the dock? Or maybe the idea is to preserve it for the N.O., when selling it "x" years down the line?
Seems if one doesn't care and just wants a no-maintenance color there (and doesn't like stainless as you and others have nicely done) -- just sand and paint the darn things w/ Awlgrip to match your canvas color or deck color or an accent color -- and be done with it, the periodic canvas expense, and maintenance! TBTC, I guess.
For me, I do enjoy SOME brightwork as it is quite pretty and yachty to look at while I am on the boat using it. Typically, I would remove my covers when out and about but they would likely stay on while at the dock. This is very similar to my window covers for the dodger.
That said, the handrails are a son of a biscuit to refinish so the payback is less valuable to me there when compared to the large flat surfaces of the hatch boards and rails.
I love my brightwork! I'm old school, having previously owned three wooden boats (42 ft., 36 ft. and 24 ft.) . I like the looks of brightwork. And, I get a zen-like sense of accomplishment when doing my varnish (and enjoy showing it off). A couple of coats a year keeps it looking fine. The eyebrows are going to need stripping next time—particularly on the sunny side of the boat. I don't remove anything, just lots of blue tape. Part of my ritual. I do have covers on the handrails but always remove ALL boat covers when sailing or entertaining dockside.
Quote from: Noah on February 21, 2022, 11:50:33 AM
I love my brightwork! I'm old school, having previously owned three wooden boats (42 ft., 36 ft. and 24 ft.) . I like the looks of brightwork. And, I get a zen-like sense of accomplishment when doing my varnish (and enjoy showing it off). A couple of coats a year keeps it looking fine. The eyebrows are going to need stripping next time—particularly on the sunny side of the boat. I don't remove anything, just lots of blue tape. Part of my ritual. I do have covers on the handrails but always remove ALL boat covers when sailing or entertaining dockside.
AND you show it off and don't hide it!!
How about a picture from the inside?
I enjoyed the brightwork of the boats in adjacent slips.
Craig
Just to clarify, the term "brightwork" to me has always meant chrome or polished stainless steel. And finished teak "the woodwork" or just "the teak".
Craig,
Like you I also love looking at beautifully maintained wooden boats, I just don't want to be the guy who does it.
Noah,
There's a guy on my gangway with a Grand Banks, I see him all the time on his boat, he's constantly working on the teak, it's obvious he enjoys this but while he's down there all the time and his boat looks great I rarely see it out of the slip. While I'm sure you also enjoy it I don't, I guess we all just have different ideas about what's fun about boating.
I'll try to see if I can get down to the boat some pictures posted for clarification.
Gunner—My 42 ft. was a wooden Grand Banks! Loved that boat. I was a live-aboarder back then.
Interesting Noah... a power boater going to sailing! The 42s make great livable boats. I have always had a soft spot for the BG46 classic. The longer foredeck trunk to me makes the tri cabin look more pleasing to the eye.
Alex- i grew up sailing since I was a kid and of the 10 boats I've owned in my lifetime, from beach cats on up ... the Grand Banks was my only powerboat. Although, I used to be Ships Master in the Merchant Marine, and skippered research vessels, oil field supply ships and towboats, up to 250 ft, I will always be a "rag bagger" at heart.
Here are some photos of the railings and the hatch cover runners where I replaced the teak with starboard. Sorry about the quality they're a little dark but it was cloudy and rainy, yes it happens once and a while even in sunny SoCal.
Noah,
I grew up as a sailor, but call myself an equal opportunity boater: if it's windy, I sail, if it is cloudy and rainy, I will take a comfy power boat with an inside helm, if it is smooth and glassy, I'll waterski. That said, I am not a fan of jet skis. :-)
Scgunner,
Those handrails look pretty legit!! Did you have someone make them based on a template you provided? Also, did you laminate up a few pieces of starboard to get to that thickness on the hatch rails? I have considered doing those out of something different as well.
Alex,
I had the rails made by a local S/S fabricator, ironically named The Railmaker. I don't think you'll have any trouble finding a local S/S fabricator in Seattle. Before I took the teak rails to the shop in used a piece of line to maintain the proper bow in the rail since the teak will want to straighten itself throwing off the hole measurements. I also brought them a piece of paper with all the hole measurements on the deck. The fit was almost exact. Also I had them weld the bolts to the rail bottoms and simply pushed the railing into the deck and used cap nuts on the other side. I imagine you could also weld nuts to the rail bottoms and go the other way with screws.
Regarding the hatch rails laminating wasn't required, you can order different thicknesses of Starboard to fit the application and simply cut and shape as necessary. I did screw some pieces together and I did this in the cockpit with hatch frame a slats as well. Basically Top Gun has no exterior teak.
Also as you can see I replaced the dorades with solar vents and the Beckson portlights with Lewcos. Other than washing the exterior requires very little maintenance and has eliminated the need for a number of covers; hatch, rails, dorades. It also saves quite a bit of money when it comes time to order new covers.
Scgunner,
Very nice. I have a later boat that already had Lewmar ports on the cabin trunk but still had becksons for the aft cabin cockpit port lights. I ended up replacing those with 2nd hand lewmars as I have never liked the feel of the becksons. Plus they are so much smoother. I would always catch my foot on the cowl!
Thanks for outlining your proceedure on the handrails. I believe Railmakers were the shop that made all the rails for Catalina when the boats were built in CA.
Alex,
You are correct, when I first got Top Gun in '88 it still had The Railmaker stickers on the stainless.
Here's another option if you want the wood look without the maintenance: https://www.plasteak.com/plasteak-recycled-plastic-products/custom-boat-trim
I put handrails, toerails and sliding hatch rails made of this stuff on my current boat. Looks great and absolutely zero maintenance.
Where/how did you put a toe rail on a C34?
Quote from: Noah on February 23, 2022, 03:29:24 PM
Where/how did you put a toe rail on a C34?
It's on my current boat, a Gloucester 19. Sold the 34 when my daughter got into MIT....
Here's a link to a photo on the PlasTeak FB page. Definitely a Catalina. Maybe a 34? This is the same stuff I put on my Gloucester 19 and as I said before it's been ZERO maintenance for the last five years. This summer's project is two cockpit coaming boxes for jibsheets, like the Catalinas have. I just ordered the PlasTeak trim rings for them. 😎
https://www.facebook.com/plasteak/photos/a.340511525997157/386994404682202
The eyebrow detail is one I have seriously considered doing in Plasteak. There is someone on my dock with a 39' jeanneau that has all their toe rails done with this stuff. It looks quite tidy!
Alex : I removed the "eyebrow strips" and filled the holes with SS #4 screws and finishing washers. It took another C34 owner 2 months (on the same dock) to notice that I had removed them!!
A thought
Ron,
That is my back up option. I enjoy the viaual detail of the wood but its size make it quite challenging to maintain.