Hi all,
I've been aware of a slightly wet bilge ever since I bought my Cat Mk II last August. I had assumed it was water from a dripping stern gland - at least that's what the surveyor told me it was.
Now, I'm certain that there is a small weep from the port side aft bolt. About 2 pints per month.
There's not the slightest sign of cracking, or a Catalina smile on the hull keel interface.
I'm assuming therefore that this isn't an immediate safety issue. Is that correct?
I haven't yet checked the torque settings. - still looking for an extra long socket.
I would torque them all and monitor. I just bought an impact socket and cut it in two and then had a pipe welded in to make the "deep" part. It doesnt look pretty but it is certainly functional.
If/when you torque the bolts, you will probably need a cheater bar (piece of pipe) to slide over your torque wrench to give you more leverage. When I went to torque mine last October, without one, I discovered just how old and weak I have become! 107lbs. sounds easy, but it wasn't for me... :cry4`
Quotestill looking for an extra long socket
I also cut a socket and welded a pipe extension. If you add your location to your signature, possibly someone near may be willing to loan you one.
Jim
I need to finally get to this as well, and check the keel stub, rusty washers
Rusty washer are "probably" due to the washer being covered or partially covered in gelcoat, causing oxygen starvation. Try chipping away gelcoat in bilge to reveal all of the washers then treat with a rust remover (such as Spotless Stainless or citric acid). This could solve the rust/bleed problem in the bilge, but not a leaking keel bolt.
Quote from: Noah on February 04, 2022, 08:22:11 AM
If/when you torque the bolts, you will probably need a cheater bar (piece of pipe) to slide over your torque wrench to give you more leverage. When I went to torque mine last October, without one, I discovered just how old and weak I have become! 107lbs. sounds easy, but it wasn't for me... :cry4`
Won't this screw up the 'ft' part of the ft lb torque measurement???
QuoteWon't this screw up the 'ft' part of the ft lb torque measurement???
Not if the extension is on/over the handle. A dozen years ago and some shoulder surgery 107 ft lb was easy enough. Now I too need a cheater.
Jim
Technically using a basic torque formula, the length of the wrench will affect the amount of torque produced at the nut if you apply the same force at the end of each. However the wrench will still click, or the pointer will still point at the set value of the wrench. You just apply less force to the end of the extended wrench (which is why you're using it in the first place). Be careful not to damage your wrench with the pipe, and be careful not to overdrive the torque you're after because of the cheater bar/pipe.
Keelson : You need to remove that nut on the leaking keel bolt, replace (or cleanup) the corroded washer,/s. I'd add some new caulk (3M5200) and retorque it and the rest of the keel bolt nuts.
With that said - you really need to be on the hard (out of the water) with the keel on the ground and the weight of the hull setting on top of the keel!! Then you can retorque all the nuts!!
A few thoughts
Just to clarify Ron's comment (that confused me anyway): You DO NOT want to put 5200 (or any caulking) around the keel bolt and/or washer INSIDE the boat! Caulking should only be done on the OUTSIDE between THE lead and the hull—and this can only be done with the boat out of the water.
Quote from: Noah on February 07, 2022, 03:14:24 PM
Just to clarify Ron's comment (that confused me anyway): You DO NOT want to put 5200 (or any caulking) around the keel bolt and/or washer INSIDE the boat! Caulking should only be done on the OUTSIDE between THE lead and the hull—and this can only be done with the boat out of the water.
I disagree (i.e., Ron is spot-on about sealing inside the bilge.) But it doesn't pertain to the source of the leak at hand.
Someone, please, explain how, with no crack, no smile, no pathway for seawater to get to the keel bolt (via a keel joint that is 100% intact) water can make its way up and into the bilge?
And then, how torquing the nuts is a remedy when there is no pathway for water to get to the bilge?
i.e., if Quote
There's not the slightest sign of cracking, or a Catalina smile on the hull keel interface.
= true;
then the water is coming from another source also = true.Perhaps...... water is making its way running down the hull from aft, and appears to be entering from around the keel nut/water?
This begs the question; What evidence/observation leads KG to believe that the keel bolt is the source (and not the stuffing box)?
Re: Ron's comment - One wants a positive seal around each bolt (underneath each washer) to prevent bilge water from wicking down via the keel bolt thread and attacking the keel joint bedding (or down to the wood for those who have that in the keel stub.)
Ken —if you remove the bolts entirely or partially, yes. Otherwise, if you just seal down the washer and nut in the bilge from inside with 5200–good luck on torquing them again once the boat is on the hard.
Noah
Whether one does it on the hard or in the water isn't the key. This was the point:
You DO NOT want to put 5200 (or any caulking) around the keel bolt and/or washer INSIDE the boat! Caulking should only be done on the OUTSIDE
I'm confused -- are you now saying that is correct or incorrect? IMO, the statement is incorrect.
To the other point (when) - Removing/torquing only one nut (which was Ron's suggestion) will make zero difference whether the boat is on the hard or in the water.
Ron suggested that KG remove/seal/torque only one (and in fact recommended against doing the others while in the water.)
i.e., Both Ron's (a) recommendation re: the one nut, and (b) his caution re: the other nuts, were correct (IMO.)
I am just saying that slathering 5200 on the nut while in the water is not the way I would do it.
Quote from: Noah on February 07, 2022, 06:37:12 PM
I am just saying that slathering 5200 on the nut while in the water is not my way I would do it.
I agree!! (and for my money no one had suggested such.)
To my other point -- how would water
possibly get to underneath that keel bolt, to even consider touching the nut?
The diagnosis doesn't compute, logically. I hope we agree
on that!
Quote from: Ron Hill on February 07, 2022, 01:51:04 PM
Keelson : You need to remove that nut on the leaking keel bolt, replace (or cleanup) the corroded washer,/s. I'd add some new caulk (3M5200) and retorque it.
A few thoughts
I may have misunderstood, but that was my takeaway to slather up with 5200 while in the water. If thet is what Ron meant, then it is Not an adequate "fix."
I'll add my two cents since I have a lot of personal experience with keel bolts in Catalina's. I highly doubt your keel bolt is your source of water inside the bilge. If you suspect it's one of the keel bolts why don't you create a dam around that bolt using some butyl tape or even playdough? Set a camera on time lapse and see if the water is indeed coming from that area? I think you'll find that the bilge is getting filled from a different source while the area around the bolt will be dry.
If it is leaking at the bolt your only permanent fix is to drop the keel, clean and re-bed it with 3m 5200.
Guys : You cannot should not retorque the keel bolts while the boat is in the water!! You are trying to pull the 5000lb keel up (snugger) to the hull!!
The hull weight has to set on the keel so the 5000+ pound of keel is on the ground and NOT pulling away from the hull!!
A thought
Unless all bolts are loose and the keel is pulling away from the keel stub you're not pulling anything up... The amount of movement under normal circumstances is NONE. I HIGHLY doubt you'll get more than a quarter turn on a nut while torquing the nut back up to spec.
I torqued mine in the water. I can't say there is any reason NOT to torque them in the water.
Hi KW,
I suspected the keel bolt because I blocked off the two limber holes and a very small amount of water still found it's way into the centre bilge section where the keel bolts are. Also, the water tasted salty.
Also, there's some rust sludge around the base of the bolt - even though the bolt and nut itself look pretty clean.
No one has yet said this is an emergency structural problem (phew) so I think I'll just keep a watchful eye on it for this coming season.
Are you in fresh or saltwater? If in salt, then taste it. Also, if you have a keel stepped mast, rule out water coming in from rain.
I'm in salt water Noah.
You could also have a leak at one of your thru hulls, much more likely than a keel bolt letting water in.
Quote from: KeelsonGraham on February 09, 2022, 12:52:13 PM
No one has yet said this is an emergency structural problem (phew) so I think I'll just keep a watchful eye on it for this coming season.
NO, it's not an immediate problem!!! :D :D
You might use baby powder or sidewalk chalk to determine if water is running down the hull surface.
- Ken