Newly minted owner of '86 c34 here. So I have been noticing a leak in the aft berth from the protective cover/ doghouse right under the steering pedestal. I undid all the screws on it today but it is stuck on there pretty good and not budging -- yet I can see the leaks. I am not sure if previous owner bedded it with butyl tape alone or some marine adhesive/caulk. I can see copious amounts of butyl tape in the joint. However, usually butyl tape doesn't adhere which is why it is recommended for through-bolted hardware. This thing is not through-bolted but it is stuck so hard I can't pry it off without risking breaking it. What is the recommended way to seal it? Should I address the leak at the protective cover or at the steering pedestal base? Any ideas on how to fix this leak? Thanks.
Where did you get info that butyl rubber 'doesn't stick'? Not sure what that property (not sticking) would have to do with thru hull fasteners?
Butyl rubber is what keeps your windshield stuck to your automobile.
See
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape
What is the "protective cover" you are speaking of? If you have a MKI boat there is nothing (that I know of) in the cockpit floor. The MK1.5-MKII have the emergency tiller cover but not MKIs?? Or, are you talking about the "doghouse" cover over the steering pulleys accessed from inside the cabin? those are just screwed up into the cockpit floor from below. You can remove it but no good way to fix any leaks from below. You need to stop leaks from the outside.
Yes the "dog house". I think this article https://www.sailnet.com/threads/bedding-deck-hardware-with-butyl-tape.63554/ mentions that butyl tape is not a glue. Whatever the case may be, how do I "unstick" it so I can rebed it?
Pic. Also, there are a couple of screws that are stripped and just spin without tightening. It is my understanding that butyl tape needs "compression" to make a good seal.
QuoteWhatever the case may be, how do I "unstick" it so I can rebed it?
That cover should not be bedded. I have some foam, draft sealer, there. Think the bedding was the PO attempt at fixing a leak. You have a bit of a chore to remove the cover. Remove all the screws, if they spin pull them out, then as gently as possible work around the edges with a putty knife, you may need to find or modify one to go straight into the bedding, gentle heat may help. Good thing is that the bedding should only be half inch or so wide. That should get the cover off. Then clean up everything and look up for your leak. Stripped out screw holes can be filled and drilled again.
Hope this helps,
Jim
That is just a cover. Remove screws and slowly pry away with a putty knife. As Noah said leaks are from the outside.
Junaido,
We have the same leak on our 1990 MK1.25.
Once you remove the inside cover my guess would be that your leak, or at least your first place to trouble shoot would be the bedding for the NavPod pedestal in front of your steering column. That is where my leak is and I will re-bed with Butyl tape.
When we inspected the boat in August the aft cabin was dry but when we took possession in November the aft mattress was soaked on the bottom. The PO was surprised as he did not have any leak in the aft cabin. I suppose someone had "jerked" hard on the pedestal and caused the leak.
We plan to use an underlayment under the mattress, anyone has any good idea for a well functioning underlayment without having to invest in the Frohlic system or similar?
1990 MK1.25 #1024 SR/WK M35
Rock Hall, MD
Junaido,
It looks like the PO attempted some kind of off the wall kind of fix, it's things like this that give POs a bad name. Aside from using some kind of unnecessary bedding compound he also put in a bunch of extra screws, mine is held in place with four screws, one at each corner. It's also got a gray insulating tape. When the screws are removed the cover pops right off.
Is this cover where the leak is coming from? I had an aft cabin leak which was caused by a leak in the water tank and showed at the bottom of the wooden panel.
Junaido, The below troubleshooting may not help this leak, but while you're in the area here's something to check -
Do you have a water tank behind that bulkhead on the 1986? If you do -
when you get the dog house off look at the water tank in the area where the dog house screw holes are in the bulkhead. The bottom row of screws holding the dog house to the bulkhead can wear a hole in the tank if they're too long. I replaced the wood screws with machine screws and installed t-nuts in the wood bulkhead.
BJeansson - i use Hypervent material under my bunks as an "underlayment".
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=1818021
Thanks for all the replies. I don't think there are any water tanks in that area. There is a large bladder tank under the aft berth and one forward in the v-berth. I will try heat/putty knife approach. The steering pedestal is most likely the source of the leak. It is secured to the cockpit floor with four large screws.
My 1987 has an aft tank behind the bulkhead, but I wasn't sure if the 1986 had a tank there so thought I'd mention the possibility.
FYI - A non water leak thing to check in this same area are the pins for the steering cable pulleys. Are they brass or SST? If brass you should plan to change them to SST. If you haven't already, read through the Critical Upgrades listed on the main page of the Forum. Very helpful list for a new owner.
As long as you are back there you may want to remove both wood panels and look around. Fuel tank, thru hulls, water tank........
If you do remove the teak plywood athwartship bulkhead, and There is not a water tank there, please post a picture. I am curious as to what Catalina used that "future aft water tank space" for. Lots of space there. You could possibly make a locker out of it? For your info, pics of my 1990.
I had a similar leak on my mkII. The source was the binnacle guard which had been removed by the PO or contractor to install a new autohelm display and not properly re-sealed. I was able to loosen the foot brackets and get enough movement to apply a bead of butyl tape around the flanges and re-tighten. I'm hoping this does the trick. The boat is currently under its winter cover so I will have to wait until spring to see if the leak has stopped. Didn't really notice the leak until I removed the bimini canvas and we had some rain prior to fall lift out.
There may be other sources, too.
From my 2019 Tech Note on cockpit Beckson ports:
Soon after we moved to Canada, and rain (!), I had lunch with Jeff Tancock, #630, Stray Cat, and we went to his boat where he showed me an aft cabin leak that appeared as a trace of water on the aft teak bulkhead. The end result was a pool of water under the starboard side of the aft cushion. He explained all the work he'd done to trace it down, including complicated work such as binnacle bedding. He later reported to me that he'd finally traced the leak to the aft Beckson portlight by putting some plywood over it the next time it rained. Wouldn't you know, I ended up with exactly the same leak the following rainy season! Thanks to Jeff I didn't have to reinvent the wheel about the possible source.
Not applicable to Mark II boats.
Noah has the cleanest bilge/inside hull!
Quote from: Noah on January 17, 2021, 04:34:41 PM
If you do remove the teak plywood athwartship bulkhead, and There is not a water tank there, please post a picture. I am curious as to what Catalina used that "future aft water tank space" for. Lots of space there. You could possibly make a locker out of it? For your info, pics of my 1990.
Noah,
Excellent pictures, not only shows how to access the rear area for possible leaks, it also show how best to access the reefer compressor for service or replacement. Also while your there check those scupper drain hoses, they're much easier to change if needed.
Yes, there are some "minor" cracking on the scupper hoses. I bought replacement hoses but decided to gamble and wait until my haul out in 6 months and change them then because I will change the thru-hulls in transom at the same time. I didn't want to crack the nylon thru-hull while attempting to change the hoses while in the water.
Quote from: Jon W on January 17, 2021, 10:13:13 AM
My 1987 has an aft tank behind the bulkhead, but I wasn't sure if the 1986 had a tank there so thought I'd mention the possibility.
FYI - A non water leak thing to check in this same area are the pins for the steering cable pulleys. Are they brass or SST? If brass you should plan to change them to SST. If you haven't already, read through the Critical Upgrades listed on the main page of the Forum. Very helpful list for a new owner.
My '86
does have that aft water tank.
Agree that Critical Upgrades is a necessary read for the new owner of an '86 boat. That's why we started that topic in the first place. Thanks for the reminder, Jon.
Quote from: glennd3 on January 17, 2021, 03:50:54 PM
As long as you are back there you may want to remove both wood panels and look around. Fuel tank, thru hulls, water tank........
Glenn, looking at the photo which Junaido posted, his boat does not appear to have the removable wood panel on the aft wall of the aft cabin (my '86 Mk I does not have the removable aft wall either).
Quote from: derekb on January 18, 2021, 02:50:22 PM
Quote from: glennd3 on January 17, 2021, 03:50:54 PM
As long as you are back there you may want to remove both wood panels and look around. Fuel tank, thru hulls, water tank........
Glenn, looking at the photo which Junaido posted, his boat does not appear to have the removable wood panel on the aft wall of the aft cabin (my '86 Mk I does not have the removable aft wall either).
Yes it's just a fiberglass aft bulkhead with presumably the lazarette behind it containing CNG tanks. I didn't see any fasteners in it.
Seems like an opportunity there to put some access doors or a hatch on that bulkhead to get access/storage?
Quote from: Noah on January 18, 2021, 03:38:00 PM
Seems like an opportunity there to put some access doors or a hatch on that bulkhead to get access/storage?
Hi Noah, you're right! In fact I already have 3 large hatches already purchased, just waiting for me to empty out the aft lazarette before cutting some holes. The PO installed two extra batteries back there, so I have to make sure there is clearance for my jig-saw blade before cutting! I'll add pictures once this little project is done...
Quote from: derekb on January 18, 2021, 02:50:22 PM
Glenn, looking at the photo which Junaido posted, his boat does not appear to have the removable wood panel on the aft wall of the aft cabin (my '86 Mk I does not have the removable aft wall either).
Good point.
Here's what mine looks like.
Those two extra studs and nuts in the middle are a not-so-clever idea the PO had: he put a U bolt through to just in front of the wheel to hook a tether on. Not planning so well, he ended up drilling right into the damned idler wheel cover!!!
I'm sure that the earliest boats in 1986 had some details that were different than even later boats in that year. I had the pleasure of being on Al Watson's #55,
Kindred Spirit (now owned by Dave Commando), many years ago, and noticed the differences in his companionway stairs from mine. He also didn't have the overhead handrail over the galley sink and kept hitting his head whenever he was on my boat! :D
I also recall reading about different water tanks, although I don't think bladders were ever OEM. I'll see if I can find my copy of the very first C34 brochures which did show some of the differences.
Hi Stu,
Thanks for the pics. Do I see some evidence of caulking on that cover?
Quote from: junaido on January 22, 2021, 09:27:42 AM
Hi Stu,
Thanks for the pics. Do I see some evidence of caulking on that cover?
No. I went back to my original photos and looked carefully. What "appears" to be caulk is simply the line left by the doghouse on the shiny gelcoat above. It seemed to have rubbed a bit of the shine off.
My boat has "always" had 1/4 wide strip of sticky-back foam tape on the doghouse where it mates to bulkhead. Why? Who knows? But I never bothered to remove it. And, I have unscrewed it more times than I would like to count! Each time removing it and that bulkhead was going to be my "last time"!
Quote from: Noah on January 22, 2021, 12:33:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And, I have unscrewed it more times than I would like to count! Each time removing it and that bulkhead was going to be my "last time"!
I have never removed mine until last August (2020). The reason is the aforementioned U bolt that my PO dolt had installed. Here it is:
I've kept it out, covered the hole and need to fill and seal it in the springtime. While the concept may have had merit, I never used it. If one wanted to, a much better location would have been centered under the companionway entrance. I am not a slave behind the wheel.
Guys : Just want to alert those that have a MKI 1987 and later (with an aft water tank) that the idler cover has screws that some are of Different lengths!!!!! The longer screws go up into the overhead while the shorter screws go in to the aft vertical teak panel!!! I wrote that screw length debacle up, in the Mainsheet tech notes
I've known C34owners to use the longer screw into the aft panel, have the screw go thru the teak and puncture the aft water tank !!!
Not sure if that also applies to the MKIIs or not? (Just be careful)
Just always be alert when you take things apart to note if the screws/bolts are of different lengths!! :shock:
A few thoughts
YIKES!!
On my 30 one teak plywood/Formica bulkhead between the saloon and head is attached with screws and finishing washers. I couldn't imagine why a CTY tech would have "wasted" three finish washers under the screw head. Luckily I put 3 and 3 together and got 6, and also noticed the very very tip of the thread had been ground down, and realized if I didn't I'd have driven them through to the laminate side of the panel. They used the shortest screw they could have :shock:
Also, CTY sometimes used a cushion between two parts to eliminate squeaking when things invariably move under stress.
Not sure if that pertains to the subject cover?
Good points, I have not taken notice of screw lengths as I have been going through my "refit".
Quote from: KWKloeber on January 22, 2021, 08:43:25 PM
YIKES!!
On my 30 one teak plywood/Formica bulkhead between the saloon and head is attached with screws and finishing washers. I couldn't imagine why a CTY tech would have "wasted" three finish washers under the screw head. Luckily I put 3 and 3 together and got 6, and also noticed the very very tip of the thread had been ground down, and realized if I didn't I'd have driven them through to the laminate side of the panel. They used the shortest screw they could have :shock:
Also, CTY sometimes used a cushion between two parts to eliminate squeaking when things invariably move under stress.
Not sure if that pertains to the subject cover?
Looks like this with the cover off. I tightened the small 4 nuts and that reduced the leak considerably. There is still a little bit of water drip along the wires though. As for the pulley cotter pins, they looked OK to me. What is the deal with the SS pins? Isn't mixing metals problematic in a marine environment?
Source of leaks
Mixing metals there is only slightly problematic. They are not exposed to lots of saltwater, they can be installed with Tefgel or similar and they can be inspected easily. The bulletin from Edson indicated they should be replaced with stainless due to better wear. However when i replaced mine the old bronze ones looked almost brand new! The stainless pins are expensive, about $60 I recall.
juna : As Noah mentioned the SS pins have less wear.
However, if you have taken off that cover and periodically(every couple of years) sprayed some Super Lub w/teflon on the moving parts - the bronze/brass pins will last forever!! After all there isn't that much movement of those wheels!!
Aa few thoughts
Quote from: Noah on January 22, 2021, 12:33:24 PM
My boat has "always" had 1/4 wide strip of sticky-back foam tape on the doghouse where it mates to bulkhead. Why? Who knows? But I never bothered to remove it. And, I have unscrewed it more times than I would like to count! Each time removing it and that bulkhead was going to be my "last time"!
Love the term "doghouse".
No idea it was a cover over the steering stuff.
I always thought it was a locker that sat on the stern deck.
Quote from: lazybone on February 01, 2021, 03:54:40 PM
Love the term "doghouse".
No idea it was a cover over the steering stuff.
I always thought it was a locker that sat on the stern deck.
I crewed on a 125' schooner in a previous life, and on that boat the doghouse was a structure on the stern deck over the companionway. It was large enough for 2 or 3 of us on the "dog watch" to hang out in and smoke cigarettes out of the weather (like I said, a previous life!! 8)).
Back on leak topic. I've been trying to trace the source of fresh water pooling in the aft cabin stbd bilge near the raw water through hull. My first thought was the port lights on that side, but maybe I need to look at the pedestal...
On the MK I there is not a raw water thru-hull in the aft cabin starboard. What is it for?
Quote from: Noah on February 02, 2021, 07:17:23 PM
On the MK I there is not a raw water thru-hull in the aft cabin starboard. What is it for?
It's the engine raw water inlet.
Interesting. On the MkI it is on the Portside under the sink, along with the head thru-hulls.