I don't know if my 1986 came with a vang, or not, but it's not there now. What I have, instead, is the main sheet coming from the cabin top to a block at the base of the mast (which is fine), into a block underneath the boom (which is the last of the equipment that was brittle white plastic and needs to be replaced, if we're replacing it) to a 3 block system (which doesn't match the manual which came with the boat) under the boom, then to the traveler. It's a bizarre system. I'd like to get a rope vang but I'm unclear, if I get that, can I get rid of the top block, under the mast and then how that would work with the 3 block system, since I've never seen anything like it before.
thanks
btw, thanks for the advice about calling Guido. he knew exactly what I needed for my traveler.
becki kain
hull 99
1986, Detroit
our set up is like this http://www.apsltd.com/images/CATEGORY/medium/652.jpg - but with 3 blocks at the boom, not two. why would you have this vs a vang?
Quote from: anaisdog on August 24, 2014, 08:33:40 AM
our set up is like this http://www.apsltd.com/images/CATEGORY/medium/652.jpg - but with 3 blocks at the boom, not two. why would you have this vs a vang?
Becki,
Who's calling it bizarre? You or a "knowledgeable friend" - if so you're being mislead. Look at your manual (pg. 26.)
It's the mainsheet setup - running the sheet out of the area between the deck and the boom -- not "instead of" a vang (pg. 25.)
You can do away with the block under the boom, which will reduce friction and "help" let the sheet run free under lighter air. It's not a panacea though -- it's difficult to run free under really light conditions, but eliminating any friction helps. ie, the sheet would run at an angle from the last boom block to the base of the mast. But it still isn't a vang. If you do that, the sheet will run at an angle alongside or aft of the vang, depending what type you get and the location of the boom attachment point. You can also change all the mainsheet blocks to ball bearing which also will help reduce friction under light air.
Do you want a solid vang (convenient, expensive, can support the boom w/o a topping lift) or a soft vang (less expensive, rope block and tackle)? A soft vang can double as a preventer when you need one, or can be used as a lifting device to get a MOB back into the cockpit by hanging it from the boom. Again, the manual it shows the OEM soft vang.
Cheers,
ken
can you send the manual you're using? we're looking at the catalina 34 mk2 manual, online. we're not at the boat right now
Quote from: anaisdog on August 24, 2014, 09:14:00 AM
can you send the manual you're using? we're looking at the catalina 34 mk2 manual, online. we're not at the boat right now
See at the tech-wiki online.
http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Manuals
You have MK-I, right? Why use the MK-II manual?
-KK
we're not at the boat so that was what the husband found. if i'm hull 99, that makes me a mk1 right? and yes, that is the correct manual. so should i put a vang on, even though i'm not racing her, or just replace the single swivel block at the boom? the person sailing with us yesterday suggested the vang (just a rope one) to keep the boom from bouncing in a gybe.
reading this - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-noW8PUQNCcNFRfR21WMzBWRUU/edit is pretty terrifying how bad my boat looks, in comparision to all the work this person did! and I really need to do the traveler through bolts!
thanks
and good gravy, reading the (proper) manual, i'd be afraid to have the main up, since all they seem to talk about it reefing!
if i put a vang in, like page 25, then the main would go from the turning block up to the aft single swivel block and continue through the rest of the blocks, like it is now? i've never seen a boat without a vang before so this is new to me (like everything else on the boat!)
Quote from: anaisdog on August 24, 2014, 09:28:39 AM
we're not at the boat so that was what the husband found. if i'm hull 99, that makes me a mk1 right? and yes, that is the correct manual. so should i put a vang on, even though i'm not racing her, or just replace the single swivel block at the boom? the person sailing with us yesterday suggested the vang (just a rope one) to keep the boom from bouncing in a gybe.
reading this - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-noW8PUQNCcNFRfR21WMzBWRUU/edit is pretty terrifying how bad my boat looks, in comparision to all the work this person did! and I really need to do the traveler through bolts!
thanks
Again, you don't "need" the block under the boom, so replace it only if you want to keep the current set up.
ok, the question is - do you know what a vang is for/what it does? And do you know what a preventer does? Need to get back to the basics of sailing / sail control / sail handling before arbitrarily adding equipment!
kk
vang? holds the boom down. preventer? keeps boom from accidently gybing. or am I missing something else?
Quote from: anaisdog on August 24, 2014, 09:37:42 AM
and good gravy, reading the (proper) manual, i'd be afraid to have the main up, since all they seem to talk about it reefing!
if i put a vang in, like page 25, then the main would go from the turning block up to the aft single swivel block and continue through the rest of the blocks, like it is now? i've never seen a boat without a vang before so this is new to me (like everything else on the boat!)
The mainsheet could go either way - mine runs to the block under the boom w/ my soft vang -- or you can run it to the base of the mast and cut the angle.
Quote from: anaisdog on August 24, 2014, 09:43:57 AM
vang? holds the boom down. preventer? keeps boom from accidently gybing. or am I missing something else?
Basically, but what I am getting at is you have to know how/when to use the the equipment. Are you doing a controlled gybe or is the boom slamming around? No piece of equipment is a panacea. A soft vang is a good idea, especially if you set it up to also be used as a preventer.
A safe gybe can be done with or without a vang, and having one doesn't necessarily make it safe, is what I am getting at. People oftentimes rely on equipment rather than knowledgebase, technique. eg, while backing out of a driveway Fords(?) can sense crossing traffic and stop themselves. But it's not a substitute for the driver being aware of the traffic conditions!
A soft vang with a fiddle block and cam cleat is great for multi-purpose use per my 1st answer. But more convenient is setting a soft vang to run to a rope clutch or a cam cleat at the cockpit as a rigid vang would be, but then it can't be used as a preventer -- so my point is to know exactly what you want to accomplish before buying equipment.
hmmm.... I suppose it might be set up to have a cam cleat and and still run to a cleat at the cockpit - would need to see about that.
Oh BTW, what did Guido end up setting you up with for your traveler?
kk
i do controlled gybes. bring the main to center then let it back out.
Quote from: anaisdog on August 24, 2014, 10:03:36 AM
i do controlled gybes. bring the main to center then let it back out.
Okay, I would add just a soft vang, not a rigid vang - and just decide whether to use a fiddle/cam cleat or you want to control it from the cockpit using a cam cleat there.
Do you have an unused rope clutch by any chance?
kk
[quote author=anaisdog link=topic=8198.msg57405#msg57405 date=1408897719
reading this - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-noW8PUQNCcNFRfR21WMzBWRUU/edit is pretty terrifying how bad my boat looks, in comparision to all the work this person did!
thanks
[/quote]
WOW becki document was a great find - a super resource for thinking about upgrades, etc.
It reads like a manual - "how to survey a catalina 34" LOL and has a lot of good tips about what to look for.
kk
k
lol? okay
but guido sent me control ends with cam cleats. the ends of the traveler came right off
Anybody close to Detroit that can help Becki out? In person or pictures would be a big help.
thanks!
becki,
Here is an example of how I said earlier that you can set up your soft vang to control from aft - a cockpit line break or cam cleat - rather than having the cam cleat on the fiddle block at the base of the mast as shown in the manual (the black line next to the pit is the vang control.)
http://i2.ancasta.com/Webfiles/MediaFiles/First%2036.7%20Deck.jpg
On this one there are identical controls (vang, pole downhaul, etc) on each side so you can always stay on the high side.
I did one on a Bene 36.7 just like this one using GhM ball bearing blocks and a cascading system that was I think was 12:1 purchase.) The downside is that you can't use this dual vang for multi-purpose.
-ken
that looks like the vang on the beneteau i race on but it has the vang line on both sides
Quote from: anaisdog on August 24, 2014, 06:17:32 PM
that looks like the vang on the beneteau i race on but it has the vang line on both sides
a 36.7?
Yes it has dual controls. so youre familiar with that vang - you could set up one like that.
i was just curious how i rerig after I get the vang but I'll call garhauer and ask. thanks
Quote from: anaisdog on August 25, 2014, 05:02:55 AM
i was just curious how i rerig after I get the vang but I'll call garhauer and ask. thanks
Becki,
That's what I answered earlier... You have two options re the mainsheet -
Either lose the block at he mast (and I said the benefit) and run it similar to how the MK-II manual shows, or
Leave it the way the MK-I manual shows.
I have mine like the MK-I manual shows with my soft vang (the main just passes by the vang on it;s way to the mast block.)
But there's no reason you cannot do it like the MK-II manual shows (at the angle)! You have choices.
As far as how the rope vang gets rigged, again, it depends if you want to use it as a preventer and/or an emergency lift.
If so, you can rig it like the MK-I manual shows (just a block and tackle with snap hooks both ends.) If you don't want those options you could rig it like the Beneteau, which is more convenient to use. Or rig it with only one line running to the cockpit that can be used with a cabin-top winch. If you do that (single line) I think that I could devise one so that it could also be used as a preventer/emergency lift. I would recommend making one out of blocks, etc, and not buying a ready made rope vang. There's a thread on the C30 now about rope vangs and preventers and I described how I designed mine for dual purpose, and could duplicate the parts for you. You pay a premium for a ready made rope vang.
Ed R also has pictures on there on how he ran his preventer, which doesn't depend on using his vang -- so you could do that if you want to add a separate preventer system rather than using the soft vang when you need one.
The bottom line is you need to decide what you want out of the vang and design it that way. But the mainsheet can be run either way!
I just recalled that I didn't run mine at the angle, because it would interfere with my hatch behind the mast and I want to be able to fully open that.
-ken
thanks.
Just to be clear, page 25 shows one way C34's came and page 26, of the manual, shows the other? I had a bunch of people on board my boat yesterday and we were arguing about the soft vang and how to rig it.
thanks