I recently read that Catalina recommends disconnecting the propeller shaft from the tranny before hauling to avoid possible shaft damage from the hull flexing. Do most practice this?
-Thanks,
Bill,
Where did you read that? What is meant by hauling? Trucking down the road or lifting for winter storage?
Jim
Jim,
It was related to hauling. I read it earlier in the week and I'm struggling to find it again. I'll keep looking and reference it when I find it again. It was something that I was unaware of and wanted to ask to if that's what other C34 owners typically do.
Hi,
I do haul out every year and never did this.
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on November 19, 2017, 05:58:04 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>What is meant by hauling? Trucking down the road or lifting for winter storage?
Jim's right. Definitions
are important (just my inner engineer speaking :D).
How about "hauling" vs. "haulout?"
Unfortunately, I flushed my browser history and I'm unable to find the source from earlier in the week. So, I'll retract "Catalina recommends" with an apology.
That aside, does anyone disconnect or decouple the shaft before haul-out?
Good God no. Never for hauling-out. And for that fact, not for "hauling" over land (i.e trucking the boat to a new location). Our C34 was "hauled" by truck, one from Sackets Harbor, NY to Midland, Ontario, placed on a cradle in the winter and then dropped in the water in the spring. The shaft was connected the whole time. Our C425 was trucked from Florida to Whitby, Ontario, dropped in the water and "hauled-out" several times, then "hauled" by truck to Midland, with the shaft connected the whole time.
So "no" on both types of "hauling". :wink:
FWIW. My previous boat a 1979 S2 9.2 30' had the shaft exit just behind the keel. The only place to put the lifting strap was half on the keel flair half on the shaft. Bothered me but was never a problem. The cutless bearing was the original and was always tight.
Need to be careful in this "information age" where information comes from. A lot of bad information out there. Also a lot of good. I'm glad we have it.
I'll keep my shaft bolted, safety wired and marked.
Jim
If you think it came from CTY roundabout, ask Warren.
Warren@catalinayachts.com
Ken
Bill : Have NEVER heard that. Makes no sense!! WHY????
My boat has been hauled out 30+? times and NEVER had the drive shaft disconnected.
Whether you go on jack stands or shipping cradle or a truck - the hull needs to be supported and the travel-lift need to have the straps in the proper location. Just like it shows in your owners manual!
A thought
Hi Bill. I don't disconnect the shaft when getting hauled out at the boatyard. I can't think of a reason for doing that.
My 2 cents-
I can think of a reason for disconnecting the shaft when hauling a distance, but is a pretty big reach. Hauling a boat should be done with the boat in a proper cradle and the shaft blocked to stop movement. The transportation shock loads would be mitigated by the cradle and the blocked shaft would keep the shaft from pounding the transmission and cutlass bearing/strut, and reduce whipping from the cantilevered weight of the prop. If the shaft is disconnected you would accomplish the intent of blocking the shaft from moving.
If you think what's happening when the boat is out of the water and on jack stands, it does make sense to disconnect the shaft from the trans. Out of the water, the hull is flexed, out of it's normal in water position. We see that by noticing gaps and differences in the cabinets and door fitments. On one end, the shaft is bolted to the trans. On the other end it is fixed at the skeg. If the hull is flexed, then there is pressure trying to bend the shaft. By disconnecting the shaft at the trans, it takes that pressure off. I disconnect my shaft every winter. 4 bolts, it only takes a few minutes.
Hi Roc,
Do you see any evidence that the flanges have moved when you disconnect and then haul out? Do you haul with the mast up? I'm sure there is some hull movement when the boat transitions from in the water to out of the water but I would think the movement would be greater when rigging tension is applied and released. Common wisdom (which is surprisingly uncommon) is that shaft alignment should be done with rigging tension applied while the boat is in the water which I have done. But, until now, I'd never heard of disconnecting the shaft for haulout or overland transportation. Any flexing of the shaft would be minimal; especially since it's a static load and the xmsn end of the shaft is ultimately supported by flexible mounts.
YBYC! :D
Roc,
I like Bill have never heard of disconnection the prop shaft. After some thought I'm thinking that the small adjustment to the shaft packing each spring may be due to the shaft mis-aligning over the winter and not drying out as I thought before. Now I'm interested. Do you have to adjust your shaft packing every spring?
Jim
Here you go: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/disconnecting-the-propeller-shaft-coupling.168127/ (https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/disconnecting-the-propeller-shaft-coupling.168127/)
Paul
Hi,
As said, I never heard anyone here doing this every fall. All boats being hauled out.
But, if this would be required because of the hull flexing while being pulled out of the water and then having it stand on stands.
What about the hull during navigation in waves. Having the hull going up and down. Sorry but the water pressure applied on the hull is not equaly distributed at this situation.
But, not being a naval architect ....
Not a Naval Architect either, and while I'm sure that the hull does flex in multiple directions both in and out of the water ( on cradle), I'm thinking that the when on a cradle the primary flexing would be widthwise from the sides. Perhaps some lateral "sag" as most sterns hang aft of the cradle, but most of the weight is typically on the keel, so the length where the shaft sits is all "hanging" in the same section that could/would be sagging. (i.e it would all sag together, and thus the shaft would have little to nothing to worry about). Also, the shaft does not on its own, cantilever that much past the cutlass bearing.
Not sure, but this might be just some lawyer's legalese.? :donno:
I don't know of anyone in our marina that disconnects their shaft in the fall and then reconnects it in the spring.
Then of course there are those boats out there with flexible couplings. 8)
Also, the question the other site was asked by an oday boat owner.
Always good discussions here, thank you! Still unable to find a link between Catalina and a recommendation to "decouple" the prop shaft. I'll offer one last apology and blame it on a senior moment. While looking, I did run across the link below which might be considered by some to be a reasonable source with the knowledge that finding it on the Internet doesn't make it so.
Regardless of the source, I've had time to ruminate on this and I've decided to decouple going forward for the winter.
My reason: On my '87 C34, the shaft has approximately 3/16" clearance from the shaft log when centered perfectly. If the shaft drops in the shaft log, far less space may exist and hull flex could put pressure on the shaft for an extended period of time while out of the water. If the shaft is perfectly centered, I have a tough time thinking it could flex enough to move the shaft 3/16" over such a short span but, for the time it takes to remove 4 bolts, I'll be decoupling going forward.
I know the engine / shaft can drop this much because I discovered mine had when I replaced my shaft last spring after my first season with the boat. The old shaft had rubbed on the log enough to show minimal wear. I think the PO that re-powered the boat 12 years before never had it readjusted after it settled in with the new mounts. I made the necessary alignment adjustments with the new shaft installation.
http://www1.udel.edu/db/Mas%20note/Notes/winter.boat.html (http://www1.udel.edu/db/Mas%20note/Notes/winter.boat.html)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
Bill
Bill,
Have you considered supporting the inboard end, rather than having the coupling just hanging off the shaft?
QuoteHave you considered supporting the inboard end, rather than having the coupling just hanging off the shaft?
Stu,
I sure have. I installed a Federal flexible coupling along with the new shaft, stuffing box, cutlass bearing and prop last spring. They're pretty heavy and I could cause more harm than good if I don't. I figure on using a block of wood with a V cut in the top to cradle the shaft just behind the coupling. That's the next trip down.
-Bill
I forget where I heard about decoupling the shaft, it was about 18 years ago when I got the boat, and I've made it my decommissioning ritual every year since. It may have been as part of the situation I encountered with a loud chattering noise......The first year I had the boat (new), I had a PSS dripless seal installed. I was having problems with it and contacted PYI NUMEROUS times and did everything they advised. A very loud chattering kept happening no matter what adjustments were made. At the time, I had the OEM bronze shaft. It may have been PYI that told me if the shaft is not true, it can whip and cause the seal to do that. Putting stress on the shaft during storage would cause the shaft to bend. They may have told me to disconnect the shaft during storage....So, I had the dealer contact CY to see if I could get a new shaft as part of warranty. Believe it or not, Frank Butler called my house!! Wife answered the phone and she said, "there's a guy named Frank Butler on the phone asking for you"..... I said "Frank Butler!!!!, he's the owner of Catalina Yachts!!!!!!!!!!!" He said the shafts are all made within specifications and getting a new shaft was not possible....Oh well..... I then had the local yard install a SS steel shaft and the problem went away. I figured it only takes a few minutes to disconnect it after haul out. In thinking about the situation, it does make sense. No, I really don't notice that much difference when apart, but depending on who put up the stands, or any settlement of the ground structure, the flex of the hull isn't always the same year after year. Every winter, I do notice gaps in doors or cabinetry that are not there when in the water. In the spring, I put new lock washers on the bolts, reconnect the shaft and take it from there. It's more like doing an extra insurance task. It's not hurting anything, it can only benefit.
Guys : For what it's worth, I've been to numerous boat shows (on land) and having helped with the Catalina setup, I don't recall any bit about reconnecting the drive shafts on any of the boats!!
A thought
Long time lurker here. Excellent board....one of the first good ones.
Both my C-270 and C-385 came from the factory with the shafts uncoupled. Fl to.Ws.
Not sure if the factory had done an alignment or not.
Just had a recollection - it happens.
I recall reading an article about someone having their cutlass bearing replaced by a yard. The yard workers used a heavy hammer to encourage the bearing out with the bearing puller.
The hammering was suspect in damage found on the gear box.
Thoughts?
Paul
Hey Paul,
That's doing yard work on your cutlass, and not about "hauling". And a besides, once the yard pulls out the "heavy hammer", I'd worry. You shouldn't need it with a puller. I'm speaking from experience unfortunately. They forced my cutlass bearing out and in the process bent the original bronze shaft. I had to buy a stainless one at my own expense (glad to have stainless now tho).
Since no one seems to call you when they have an issue/problem, and they try to resolve it on their own (and they don't seem to know what to do), it seems you need to make all this clear ahead of time. I was luck my engine/gear were still OK.
Sorry, slight "yard work" diversion here.
So, I finally came across the entry that I read about separating the coupling. It's not from Catalina, it's in the Universal Operators Manual for M3-20B, M-25XPB, M-35B, M-40M & M-50B under the Lay-Up and Recommissioning. Note, it was not in the original operators manual for the M-25 that was in my '87 34 but, its in the manual for the M-25XPB that was installed in 2005.
Excerpt from the manual:
PROPELLER SHAFT COUPLING
The transmission and propeller half couplings should always
be opened up and the bolts removed when the boat is hauled
out of the water or moved from land to water, and during
storage in a cradle. The flexibility of the boat often puts a
severe strain on the propeller shaft or coupling, or both,
while the boat is taken out or put in the water. In some cases,
the shaft has actually been bent by these strains. This does
not apply to small boats that are hauled out of the water
when not in use, unless they have been dry for a considerable
period of time.
Since these are all "decent size" engines, I wonder what their definition of a "small boat" is?
QuoteSince these are all "decent size" engines, I wonder what their definition of a "small boat" is?
I wondered the same thing. As I mentioned earlier in this post, I disconnected because its only a few minutes work and a safeguard like many things we do on/to our boats.
Think having a flexible coupling would address the concern?
Regards,
Ed
It crossed my mind but, the bushings in a flexible coupling are firm. If they're under constant tension/compression in one direction for 6 months who knows if they might take a set. I'm comfortable with removing 4 bolts. Heck, it takes about the same amount of time to remove the friggin' bolts as me removing the engine cover to check the engine, belts, hoses and oil before every outing. Its really not a big deal. For all the maintenance we do on our boats to ensure they're safe, reliable and fun, this is about as easy as it gets.